What is Hip Hop in its True form??

[inrctyhoodmusic]

Before I start I would like everyone to know that I'm not singeling any one person out calling any one person out or inderictly speaking to any one person!!!!!!!


I'm really getting tierd of people saying they can't wait for hip hop to go back to it's true form......Well I would like to know what you people mean buy true form ??? I see a lot of haters on this site that can't stand original producers that don't sample ..
"JUST BECAUSE IT'S NOT A SAMPLE DOESN'T MAKE IT REAL HIP HOP" !!!!! I'm not against samples in fact I have quite a few sampled joints and the thing I can't understand is a lot of people talk about how hip hop is crap hatin on every artist that's sucessful...It seems that if an artist sells 1 million or more copies of an album and get continuios air play he is wack his beats and his rhymes suck well apparently that artist has done something right because they're rich and we're still trying to get our foot in the door......Do you really know what hip hop in it's truest form is?
It's battle rap break dancing and fun but now that times has change and hip hop is one of the biggest money makers in the music industry the standards are set higher and now people , producers and mc's want to be icons and most off all original any one can sample but it takes a special person to compose!!And as I look at the treads and look at the people who post and reply to these threads are young and old school to this younger generation is pete rock and cl smooth leaders of the new school tribe called quest etc. when in fact old school was way before that with grand master flash and the furious five kool mo dee and thetreachours three sugar hill gang these groups were before my time my old school is Run DMC Kurtis Blow and whoever played in Krush Groove but you yougins old school happens to be Gangstarr...Bottom line good music is good music weather it's sampled original maistream or underground so I say it's time to stop the hate and take notes on what these people are doing that we're not so we can see how to be sucessful in music and in life. Hate is an evil thing that holds a lot of us back from advancing .....I'm not saying don't have an opinion I'm saying don't be ignorant and dislike something just because everyone else likes it. Everyone has their on taste and I used to love gangstarr I even had a 3rd base album I loved KMD Brand Nubians Tribe called quest BDP MC Shan Marly Mal and the entier Juice krew I even liked mc lyte and audio two ...That milk is Chillin song was original and how many times was that sampled....I just ask that we not be haters but try our best to get into the position of the people we hate!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you youngins do your homework The true form of hip hop is making hot music to that get people moving on the dance floor nodding their heads til their necks hurt and rembering that song for years to come and most of all selling records and making money

 

[BeatOff]

Hiphop is not giving a fuck what others think.

 

[T-Dash]

Hiphop to be accurate is the 4 elements of DJing, emceeing, Breakdancing and Graff art. I've partaken in all of those on a large scale (except Graffiti). However...thats just what hiphop is...I feel that true hiphop is doing it because you love it...because your being true to it for the simple reason that you want to do it...commericalisim might be swarming into hiphop through endorsements and advertising...but a hiphop artist that loves doing what they do...is true (and that goes from the bottom of the level no name rapper, to the highest selling artist in the business). Just my opinion...peace!

 

[Copenhagen]

I've participated in all elements apart from Breakdancing...(I guess white boys can't dance )...anyway, I used to think that you had to be certain things, otherwise you weren't Hip-Hop... but really, Hip-Hop is a way of life and thought...and I guess, If you music represents that, be that Underground or Mainstream, then it's Hip-Hop. I don't wear Hip-Hop gear, just plain 'normal' clothes...and I think it's so funny when people who act the part look down at you cause you're wearing normal 'mainstream' clothes...not knowing that you know 10 times more about the culture than them.
It's all a matter of opinion and people make their own judgement on what they think sounds Hip-Hop...but seriously, if I'm feeling something...whether its keyboard beats or sampled beats...I really don't care what you call it.
Anyway, Hip-Hop/Rap sucks...

 

[SpLitPerSonaliT]

Hip hop to me is going on the bart train from san francisco to berkely every morning to take classes on mixing, and going up and down the blocks talking to random eccentric people that u see and promoting your own stuff. It doesn't matter what u look like or how you sound just getting what u want to get across acrossed. Its a possitive state of mind that gives u your own personal style and keeps every day different and exciting. I think when people want hip hop to go back to its true form i think what they mean is just when everything sounded different and it was more about positivity and knowledge of life than money and cars

 

[fame_keyz]

Only until i got on the internet did i ever know there was a what is hip hop or what isnt it. I think everything that people feel isnt hip hop is cause hip hop back in the 80's to me is still the same as it is today just change with the times. To say what is hip hop and whats not is like when hip hop was first invented and people didnt want to call it music. Some people still dont but it is a form of it. Just like the bling bling or the thuggish ruggish gangster music that hip hop too. People say break dancen and graffiti was is hip hop but thats a lifestyle of hip hop just like some one buying cars or cloths is a lifestyle. when you set cat. on things you only set limits. do we really think rap or hip hop music would be as big as it is if we was still doing the worm and spinning on cardbord today in 2003. I mean i dont mean to disrespect no body. It kills me how when only people who are broke do somethings its a artform or culture but once it go world wide or you see it everywhere then is not what it use to be.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

hmmm

Well, yes hip hop is supposedly the lifestyle...blah blah, breakdancing...blah blah....grafittit art.....blah blah....it's what you make it ya know.....it has many elements.......you could have any one of those parts but they all look pretty stupid without the most important.....beats, vinyl and mc's...LOL I know some foundation heads will disagree....but the boom bap is what defines Hip Hop....I certainly don't think of all of the other elements because the lifestyles and fads change....most people are trying to emulate the 90's sound and I applaud that....the elemental beat patterns and vinyl usage cannot stray too far or it will not be hip hop if you ask me......you can sample and resample your own stuff but vinyl elements have to remain or some software manipulation of your own that sounds like it........I don't like knocking other genres but Imma tell you the Major Record labels will honorably deal out the genre hip hop to anything with a beat nowadays unfortunately.....LOL but Imma tell you Trick Daddy, Manny Fresh or the Neptunes is not what comes to mind when I think of Hip Hop not to knock whatever they do and sell.... or rather Real Hip Hop Music ......I think of BDP.....I think of NAS, I think of WU Tang Clan......I think of Break Dancing etc..... and not that it is living in the past......it was what actually set the bar and help shape and brand the name along with De La, Jungle Brothers many more......anything too much different needs to earn a different Genre I hate to inform the unknowing.....That Rap is a sub element of hip hop not the other way around.....

 

[OneNineBlock]

allright well im gonna put it down like this....
Hip Hop is music that u express urself though or express ur thoughts through
Rap music, all tha mainstream crap u hear on radio and BET, that is talking about how much money u have and how much of a G u are to sell records....thats the difference people who listen to hip hop know whut i mean, 90% of people dont kno whuts up when it comes to hip hop, u be like..So you herd of Kool G Rap they gone be liek HELL no..or even big l...i donno the shit they put on the radio is put on the radio for a reason its not hip hop its mainstream pop rap, all the good shit dont get play and the reason for this is becuz most people dont understand hip hop...they try to listen to understand but they just dont HEAR it...big diff between listening and hearing it ya kno whut im sayin...basically whbut im sayin is hip hop aint fucked, and goin no where, juss there aint as much shit to be done these days cuz everythings been done, so like i donno i think hip hop needs to be taken back to tha roots and get back on track like all tha shit that dropped in tha 90's MAD ill shit i donno peace thaz juss a few thougts i thought ide share

 

[Copenhagen]

Well, reading all the posts I gotta ask, so that we are talking about the same thing. Are we talking about Hip-Hop culture or just Hip-Hop music (which of course is 1 part of the culture)?

 

[inrctyhoodmusic]

well Copenhagen I don't know myself when I started this thread it was to stop the hate on "MAINSTREAM RAP"!!!! And Onenineblock just proved a valid point that I was talking about and that is don't be hater just cause it gets air play and is in heavy rotaion on the radio and BET doesn't mean it's crap....Kool G Rap got air play when he was hot but now he's just too old to keep up with these young boys today.....There is a reason why he can't land a major label deal....Remember when Rakim was on top and after he stopped making music other artist like B.I.G. Nas Raekown Ghostface , Jay-Z had made a big name for them selves and when Rakim decided to release an album it didn't do well why??Because times have changed and he couldn't keep up people listend to the second disc of the album with the classics he did more than his new material....Look at Jordan he's not the Jordan that can play 48 plus minutes a game he barley was able to play 30 a game is too old now to keep up with these young boys in the league.....

Splitpersonalit--- Keep doing what you're doing can't go wrong with that

Copenhagen---I can't stand when people say they dress Hip Hop hip hop is not a way to dress and I understand what you mean by people so called dressing hip hop and know no where as much as half of you know just cause it's fubu sean john or phat farm doesn't mean it's hip hop....I wonder what wearing polo nautica and hilfiger mean??

OneNineBlock------The roots of hip hop came WAAAAY before the 90's ......If you love hip hop so much learn the history of it......Hip hop is Older than you

 

[Copenhagen]

I can now understand that we are talking about Hip-Hop music only. Good to have that cleared up
Hip-Hop has evolved and today has many genres within the genre. Mainstream rap is one of the genres and therefore also Hip-Hop. The new genres its just not Hip-Hop as we knew it...but it's still Hip-Hop. People of course have they personal preferences but you can't say that its only songs that sounds like the earlier eras that are actually Hip-Hop.
One last thing, isn't the first 2 rap songs 'jiggy' and mainstream...I mean 'Rappers Delight' and 'The Message'. Actually, the mainstram songs today are closer to these 2 songs than the underground stuff. Not to knock the underground, I love different songs from all the sub-genres of Hip-Hop...but you get my point, right?

 

[BeatOff]

Exactly hiphop evolves, everybody wants it to sound like its 1992 all over again. Why cant it move on? If for the past 10+ years hiphop had the same sound it would be dead by now.

 

[inrctyhoodmusic]

Copenhagen and Beatoff you two really have some sense and beatoff I couldn't have said it better ...People always want to say hip hop these days suck but they can't seem to get out of the pete rock and cl smooth and gangstarr era I wont name any names but one person said that 50 cent sucks and everything being played on the radio is trash but he loves pete rock and cl smooth!! their time has come and gone like i said earlier there is a reason why these guys can' get new deals without hitting a no name indipendent label times have change mc's have gotten better producers are more original so the standards are set a lot higher than what they once were...It's true that there are a lot of trash mc's out but not all of them get air play.......Personally I think that hip hop needed 50 cent to do what he's doing because if you listen to what he's saying he's not on that ice money hoes and clothes rutine and no one seems to understand that he's bringging something different to the table but with all the haters in the world they can't stand to see someone so sucessful ..What I really think is since a lot people like it and bump it they say it's trash to be different or maybe they're just that much of a hatter I'll admit there is some trash being put on the radio but I can't be mad because they're somewhere that I'm not....All you people stuck in the 90's need to let go of your flat tops gumbi's and slopes and trade them in for waves and braids and stop the hate!!!

Originally posted by fame_keyz
It kills me how when only people who are broke do somethings its a artform or culture but once it go world wide or you see it everywhere then is not what it use to be.

Fame that's so true I agree 100%

 

[joeburnem]

Originally posted by BeatOff
Exactly hiphop evolves, everybody wants it to sound like its 1992 all over again. Why cant it move on? If for the past 10+ years hiphop had the same sound it would be dead by now.

I think people tend to relate to the time when they began seriously participating in Hip Hop. (beat makers for sure!)

I got heavily involved in 1993-94, so my sound reflects that period.

An associate of mine started in 1998-99. The kid thinks he
Swizz Beats.

I say... be current, but don't be affraid to incorporate past flavors.

 

[Cold Truth]

yes!!! thank you, inrcitymusic (or however its spelled!) this is a thread everyone shoul elaborate on. here are my thought:

First off, the "elements" are still alive, well, and kicking. i have been a b-boy and a writer, and currently an mc and producer. allthough the four elements of graffiti, breakin, dj'in and mc'in are the very foundations of hip hop, we do ourselves a great diservice by limiting hip hop to that and only that. my personal beef with the current state of affairs happens to be the image that is being given out. i think the majority of radio does consist of marginal talent; it is a fact that it doesnt take tremendous musical talent to make it big in the industry. look at the neptunes- these two have as much knowledge of pure music as anyone in hip hop likely ever will, and yet they stick to a tried and true formula that sells records because the masses flock to particular sounds and themes. then you have the n.e.r.d album- this album was in truth a great piece of work. what did it sell? anyone know? i am seriously asking here. that album was among the best out the last year or two, and people barely noticed because it didnt fit the formula that theywanted. that being said, for an artform built around other genres entirely, no one can put a parameter on this and say it should or shouldnt sound like something to make it "qualify" as hip hop. at the same time, howver, there are artsists that are "good" just because they sell. if eminem were black, he wouldnt be as "good" because his record sales would be cut by half, and he would be considered good by what standard? why is it that when people say things like "i met a man named greg with a wooden leg" its considered witty, and cats like mos def get slept on by the masses, with lines like "uh-ee... scuse me- just ate another mc" ? the reason is not that eminem is more skilled than mos, its that he is more appealing to the masses, hence the reason so many mediocre artists like nelly can sell 5 million their first time out, and why 50 is gettin scully from what seems like every man, women and kid who so much as hears his name. just because its "hot" due to radio and mtv play doesnt make it good. back to the original question: there is no "true" form for hip hop. each generation carves its own identity, the same as with every other form of music. the problem is that the focus is so messed up; its all about status, money, women, etc., and contrary to what all the self proclaimed "true-schoolers" may think, that has long been a part of the "game". as much as i love hip hop, it does not dictate my lifestyle, my language, or my values. everything i live for pretty much is against much of the message hip hop as a whole conveys. it is NOT something i would die for, because hip hop is not something i would choose to live for. it is something that i am greatly passionate about, and a part of Gods plan for me. the bottom line, hip hop should exist by our hands, not we by its. lets keep a real perspective here.

by the way- what has 50 done thats so different? ok, so he's not as flossie as the rest... thats it. its still women and status. its still how he's gonna smoke someone, its still how hard he is, its still B.S. screw that. everyone is so worried about the mainstream getting so much hate... and what standards are higher? in what ways? oh, sometimes they are. sometimes. as far as "the haters who cant stand to see someone succesful"- well, as far as myself, i could care less how successful anyone is. thats not what i care about. personally, i enjoy watching people make it. i dont "hate" because they have money, or because they "made it" i supposedly "hate" (by the current definition, whicih pretty much means not liking someone. thats real good. when someone tells me they dont like something ive made, ill just say that they are hating on me. especially when i get mysogenistic and/or cry about the impossible odds i had to go through to make it. then, when i become a bad influence towards an increasingly influenced generation of kids, i can say that people just dont want to see me successful and that the world is out to get me, that way i will become the hero and everyone will come to my defense. its not my fault; if everyone would just relax and enjoy the humor- its only entertainment, after all- because im just keepin it real. that is how it works, doesnt ity?) so...... i supposedly "hate" because the artists that are getting play to me arent exactly the groundbreakers everyone else thinks they are? not that there arent valid points on both sides. its funny how everyone was against america going to war with iraq, what with people calling the president "the real monster" and all.... and yet people everywhere will support musicians who "humorously" "joke" about things like rape, incest, and hate crimes, and praise people who glorify the killing and excess of their own lifestyles, wether past or present.... and yeah, "its only music".... right? so here is the question: if its "only music", than why does it have such a profound impact on literally EVERYONE and their day to day lives? do we really believe that what people say has no power, no effect on society? i've got news, folks- music and entertainment has and always will be the single most potent tool for influencing the people at large. i am sure most of you will NOT agree with much of anything i have said, but................... oh well.

 

[inrctyhoodmusic]

Music is entertainment none of these artist are saying what sounds good ...nelly has never pimped any hoes and all rappers on murder inc never murder anyone..Dr Dre said it best on the hip hop documentary Rhyme and Reason Just cause a person says he killed 10 people and did 20 years doesn't mean he actualy did it and anyone that belives it is just stupid...

Far as the hate thing Truht There is mediocer talent on the radio even some wack shit on the radio..I'm not mad at none of it...why?? Because that wack shit is somewhere where none of us are.....I'm sure 90% of the producers here think they're better than swizz beatz but why hate if he's putting out bullshit and getting rich off of it that should make you work even harder on your music and trying to get your music heard because once your foot is in the door the people of illmuzik will be talking about how your shit our shit whoever makes it shit is wack or hot.

 

[Copenhagen]

You're right inrctyhoodmusic. I will personally always respect a producer if he's out there and he's hit is getting played, even though I don't like his style or think he's wack...If he's out there...he still did something right...and yes, it will only make me think..."if he can...then I can too"...and push for it even more.

 

[Cold Truth]

of course everyone will have their own opinion. i personally dont have respect for someone just because they are getting play- i respect people based on what i know of their character. i can truly only respect the abilities of someone that i do not know..... and i dont respect the ability of swizz, or mannie fresh, or... etc. im not mad at it either- im mad at the images and the influence and the potential for a far greater good that can be accomplished here. hip hop artists in general tend to be self centered ego maniacs.... that is the thing that frustrates me. i understand, these guys are getting paid and i am not, so yes, i have no choice but to yeild credit there. and yes, it is a great motivator for me to see people that i think are wack make millions.... or when i see people put their name on a beat that they had no participation in creating. as far as no one "actually killing people, they just talk about it..." well, its like this: eminem himself said he wouldnt let his daughter listen to his music- but he will let her get on one of his songs. how does that work? everyone uses that excuse, "its just music" but that doesnt hold water- at all. by the same token, these same artists say that they are "keepin it real" otr "keepin it street" .... ok. sure.... i laugh when these guys like nore and the lox talk about being "grimey niggas" when they in all likelyhood are paying someone else to clean that same gutter they are still "representing" and when they "represent" their hood, they revel in all the ignorance that keeps everyone else in that same ghetto. its funny how cats that are in the 'hood cry about all the injustices that are strewn upon "their people" - whoever the ethinic group is at the time- and yet they glorify all the ignorance and violence that they are o "injustly" stereotyped by. i am hispanic (mixed, actually) and every time i see another hispanic male, they inevitably throw their hannds up and stare me down. if i look away, i'm a coward, and if i stand my ground and show that i am not the least bit intimidated, i get shanked. this is the same mentality the pervades hip hop the absolute most, not the music. the music has become the platform to obtain and then flaunt these things, and no longer the voice of power and passion it once was and should still be.

 

[inrctyhoodmusic]

Truth told I understand where you're coming from but it seems like you're getting a little to personal about it

 

[Copenhagen]

I guess I expressed myself incorrectly, I didn't mean that I respected the producer in person (I don't know him)...but I'd respect him for having worked for, and succeeded, in getting to a place where I'd like to be, a place that some of us would like to reach but only a minor percentage will.
However, I also understand your point Truth Told.