Gotcha....rappers please don't sing!
- Thread starter LDB
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The Arkitekt
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Burns my ears.
KurtisRich
Pussy Monster
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 13
wasn't that bad. I've heard worse from other artists
Oh....it was "that bad", even though many other "pop artist" have done as bad or worse. As long as he doesn't try to "crawl back home" to hip hop after their done ripping him I'm cool.
It wasn't his live performance that made me wonder. It's the fact that he couldn't hit one single note in key. Which more than likely means that in the studio he didn't do ANY of the actual singing. He made sure his background singers hit the high notes, he didn't even try because he can't. There was some Milli Vinilli shit going down it the actual recording session with him doing a lite vocal track over it to blend in his voice.
The T Pain effect don't even jump off if you can't hold a note. U don't have to be able to flat out sing to use auto tune but you at least have to be able to hold a note.
There was hella tuning and pitching of his vocals in the studio which sounds whack as fuck when you perform live. He would have come out better totally lip syncing the singing parts or just letting his background singers do it.
He'll be clowned for months for that performance....google that shit and you'll see. U can't have his "bitchass" attitude and perform like that. Most people will not give him a pass on this.
God
Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
LDB:
1) You are absolutely correct on the fact that Auto-Tune will not correct vocals that are WAY out of pitch (T-Pain can actually hold a note). There will be an obvious offending artifact after ATR applies itself to the wave file, and it won't sound good. There are artifacts on Ye's new album in his vocals but not flagrant offenders like the "pops" you sometimes hear when you apply to much Auto-Tune.
Judging on these vocals I can think of ONE thing that may have been applied.
I think Ye actually did sing on the tracks. I have been privy to sessions where the producer did not just Auto-Tune but PITCH-SHIFTED vocals SECTION by SECTION or SYLLABLE by SYLLABLE to get them in Auto-Tune range so they could "draw in" the singer's pitch.
But here's the support for your theory...
It sounds awful, and there would be a comb-filtered "masking" vocal applied to it. Usually the producer's. In that respect, there may be some form of Milli Vanilli shit going on. Many rock producers do this too, where a backing vocal(s) is sung by the producer and applied to the lead vox of the singer... with EQ boost to the "hot points" in the singer's vocal. The rest are notched or scooped out. Then the producer's vocal is comb filtered with EQ gain applied to the areas that were the lead vox eq was scooped out INTO the lead vox.
Apply ATR to the vox, thicken masking vox slightly with a Waves doubler... and then... well, you have "fake" vox.
Anyway - Judging on this vocal, I think he pitch shifted his vox first syllable by syllable, applied ATR section by section drawing each syllable into pitch (to bring it closer into tune). He probably then reapplied ATR to the entire mix but using automatic rather than the graphical draw-in.
In either case, it's studio "magic." LMAO.
2. Here's where I disagree most cats hating on Kanye (even though I keep saying: THIS ALBUM WOULD HAVE NEVER MADE IT PAST THE SUBMISSION STAGE if it were a no-name cat who made it.)
BUT Kanye has effectively differentiated himself from EVERY OTHER artist out there. Lil' Wayne did the ATR thing during the raps first (on a platinum level) - and Ye saw the trend, took it a step further.
THE POINT IS:
Kanye has differentiated himself from ALL rappers out there. Though people clown him, he had the #1 album, and it will/probably already went platinum. The fact that he's different is what also makes him popular. He's not Jimi Hendrix - who was a musical god - but Ye is faking the "pushing the envelope" thing in order to position himself differently than every other rapper out there.
This gives him more bargaining power. We clown him, but he's selling songs on iTunes like crack. He receives the biggest promo money cut from his label. He is consistently destroying comp everywhere EVEN though we clown him that he's lame, etc.
Remember, he's a triple threat because he proved:
1. He's a producer (2 revenue streams: upfront budget and points on a song/album)
2. He's an artist (2-3 revenue streams: shows, label deal with money upfront) I left out points unless he gets double the points for having a SEPARATE budget for being producer of an artist that is himself (if you get it, you know what I'm saying - he double dips the record company.) Maybe I'm wrong.
3. He's a songwriter, not just a producer. (2 revenue streams - similar to producer). With "Love Lockdown" he showed me that he can write a song (albeit not perform it well) for artists. This is DIFFERENT than writing a beat. He can write the whole melody, lyrics etc. Now he can try working with a Britney Spears if he wanted and keep the money flowing in.
(Don't knock me on songwriter royalty, publishing and other ways to get "points." I know some of these revenue streams can actually be doubled by technicalities.)
In either case he IS and WILL keep getting PAID.
If he wants to go into fashion (we knock him on that) guess what?
ANOTHER revenue stream.
He actually has innate talent. That's something that 50 Cent and T.I. have to BUY from other producers or create their own writing pools in order to make hit records. Sure, they can spit - but they can't write the hook or compose the music. What good did pure cipher mastery do Ras Kass - arguably one of the greatest lyricists? The guy couldn't even write his own beat. Neither could Snoop or 50 Cent.
Props to Kanye - He has give or take 8 possible revenue streams. Each one probably yields $1million or more for him every year, depending on his output.
I can't hate him for pure hating - I just disagree with the stuff. But, I would be arrogant too if I was "invincible" with the hitmaking. Problem is... when the gravy train comes to a halt, as it usually does - people will laugh at you on the fall back down.
I think he'll be penning hits for a long time.
lol, hilarious.
Kontents
I like Gearslutz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 5
Take note that he is bouncing around like a fucking rabbit in that video. WAYYY different from standing still and singing. I ain't defending the guy, but it doesn't validate your point that he cant hold a note.
God
Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
Both clips are AWFUL.
I will have to revise my statement. I listened to Heartless in the car and I was trying to see if the voice of the chorus performer is different than Kanye. It DOES sound like it's a voice containing a different timbre.
I thought Najeem could sing, saw it on another web video. I stand corrected. The guy can barely hold the note - like Akon.
And these guys are minting money - who are the stupid ones? Us or them. Man...
AAAhhh there in lies the question.
But I have to ask because you make people like this (not this but I hope you know what I mean)
why do yall keep feeding us shit?
Because they mint money? Hell money loses value if you just keep minting it.
To the US or Them question I'm going to say (with all due respectl) YOU are the stupid ones. The public doesn't know any better, listeners listen to what is played they have to like it, its all that plays..
Over and over and over and over and over and over and over again on everywhere.
No wonder kids still still trip on 60's groups and we sample them, they actually had that "magic".
Not saying there are no "magic" people out here, but seriously I aint impressed by what the industry is spitting out and shoving down throats.
Sorry I aint attacking you personally G , I just get frustrated with radio and the whole set.
T-Pain, (Fuckin Dougie is the shit see him live if you get the chance ever great artist right there)I have heard sing and I think he can better than that clip, I mean you can find a bad performance on an artist and put it out there anytime.. terrible shit tho.None of us are gonna do a dang Garth Brooks grammy winning thing everytime we hit the stage. lol
SNL is notorius for having bad shows on people I like , look at Nirvana (I'll try and find it) PE did some bad ones too.
After I heard this Kanye clip...No he aint a singer..and no I dont think its worse than the AMA performance.
I thought this was gonna be as bad as some american idol first week shit by the posts. lol
One thing you'll notice about me. I only use detail comments on things I actually do or have personally experienced. I never haphazardly "throw somebody under the bus" just because I think I can.
I actually play around with auto tune a lot because that's what everybody wants these days. Through trial and error I found that if you flat out can't do anything in the singing department NOTHING will make u sound good. One thing you don't attempt to do when using auto tune is OVER SING. Just stay in and around your range and things go fine. When it comes time to upping your voice a couple octaves in ways you can't normally you have to use another device. My device for that is Melodyne. The combination of Melodyne ( or a similar software) and auto tune can work miracles....miracles that I have first hand witnessed...LOL.
There's no doubt in my mind that someone else definitely did the main lead vox. He more than likely did a low volume track that was later amplified, ran thru Melodyne or anther program for slight pitch correction to get him in the ball park and then Auto tune was applied. I've been doing similar things for for a minute with some of the vocalist I work with.
Those producers who don't use Melodyne really need to learn what it can do. Auto tune has it's place right now because of T-Pain but Melodyne is a very valuable tool that you can apply to every...and I do mean EVERY level of your production, not just vocals!!!!
G, I agree with everything you said. No matter how much I or we kick dirty on Ye....he's making "hella doe" and carving his initials on the game! Can't refute that!
I'm pretty sure if he could hold a note...he would've done it...especially on a night when you have to pay homage to a pioneer R&B group such as GUY...c'mon man. lol He just did'nt have the auto tune thing to hide behind...maybe he should have used autotune that night.
Kontents
I like Gearslutz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 5
^^^
I hear you can get surgery for it to be added to your throat.... lmao.. Mmmmm ROBOT WHOA AAA I CAN SING *beep Beep.
T Pain can hold a note. He was very "off his game" that night. I don't think he was sure of the lyrics, didn't fully memorize them or something.
There were a few rap dudes off there game when they did the tribute to TCQ. Paying tribute to any super star artist can't be easy, even if you're usually a good performer.
Dude came thru a spot I've dj'd at down town ATL and he won't hesitate to grab the might and belt out a note or two, especially if it's packed with females. I'm not saying he can "sang" (there's a differnece) but he can "sing" in his range. I'm sure he doesn't hit every note at times. I know plenty people that can flat out "sang" that don't. Some vocalist can't hear themselves hit bad notes. That's where the producer comes in. You can either punch them in at that point or you can pitch correct it with a program like Melodyne.
There were a few rap dudes off there game when they did the tribute to TCQ. Paying tribute to any super star artist can't be easy, even if you're usually a good performer.
Dude came thru a spot I've dj'd at down town ATL and he won't hesitate to grab the might and belt out a note or two, especially if it's packed with females. I'm not saying he can "sang" (there's a differnece) but he can "sing" in his range. I'm sure he doesn't hit every note at times. I know plenty people that can flat out "sang" that don't. Some vocalist can't hear themselves hit bad notes. That's where the producer comes in. You can either punch them in at that point or you can pitch correct it with a program like Melodyne.
see we keep making excuses for cats giving us subpar music...thats the reason they sell. None of these cats have earned the right to get my doe this year. Kanye last album seemed sincere and the beats was crazy thats why I copp'd it. Everything new aint hot though...dont get me wrong I like the auto tune style...you just wont catch me attempting that shit...and I think I can hold a note a lil bit. Back in Roger Troutmans day you did'nt catch other artist trying to do what he was doing. plus why cop some shit you can hear on the radio anytime of the day...that senseless.
That's a whole other convo...I'm not getting in to that and I'm definitely not making excuses for ANYBODY. I heard him sing LIVE, that's what I'm basing my opinion on. I'm not going to call dudes music "subpar" either. Most of what he puts out I like. I like what I like and I don't make excuses for that either. I'm not going to compare what he does to good ole soulful r&b from back in the day. There's no comparison there. Diff't time, diff't music, diff't type of artist. I don't think he compares what he does to that era of music either.
You're other points or comments are on something I care not to get on because it's senseless to me. Times are diff't and people like diff't shit. IT IS WHAT IT IS!
I think I had alot of Relics thread on Cd sales on my mind also when I wrote this also...which explains me drifting off into left field with my opinions. He (T-Pain) still cant sing and for shit though. Most artist putting out music nowdays is from the "crack baby" era and you can tell it in their music.
God
Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
1) Same corporate take on music happened in the 60's, what - since it's 50 years ago, it was "better" then? They were ghostwriting bullshit and bubblegum pop back then too.
2) This is a "hating on the industry" thread. I understand. Then I ask if people actively push their shit to agents and managers on another thread, and I get excuses instead of "shit... man, this looks like something I should do." People knock the industry but they're not even knockin' on the doors.
Maybe that's why crazy people like Kanye "make it." They're crazy enough to keep pushing and knocking on doors that most people with a normal temperament would just shy away from. (That's a generalization on my part, but it's to make a point.)
Anyway, you told me about your personal situation in another post, and I understand. I don't know what to do/say about it. But if you want to make it - people should at least TRY to knock on the doors instead of thinking that because they have a demo or myspace page the entire industry will be coming to THEM.
It won't.