You Reach; We Teach

[Iron Keys]

Your mix sucks?

Send us your stems (or like 8 bars worth), let us mix them so you can see how it could sound.

I say 'us', it's just me for now. But 'us' is anyone who wants to join in.

Why?!
Got kinda bored, not feeling to make music, but feeling to do music stuff.
One thing I've found fun in these times is mixing.

A lot of times on here you see feedback in the beat battles etc like "this track would be good if it was mixed better", and you're either on the receiving/giving end of that comment. Sometimes the feedback is more specific like "kick is too loud" "drums are too quiet/don't hit hard" "sounds to dull". Obviously, this is useful to an extent, but if they knew how to achieve those things, surely they'd have done it in the first place.
So it might be a good opportunity to really help eachother out and actually show illiens how to achieve that.

What's the benefit?!
Even if someone just sends a mix version back and that's all, it gives the maker a good comparison they can see how their stuff could sound, and they can use it to try and mix their stuff to that standard and find their own way of achieving that.

But likely, if there are elements of the mix you're like "yo, how did you make the drums feel more beefy" or "can you show me how you made the mix sound all 'together'?" then you can get specific answers and learn how to achieve that for yourself and start practising.

For the mixer... it's a good opportunity to practise your skills, removed from any sentimentality/attachment to the beat. For me, sometimes mixing my own stuff can feel a bit laborous, or 'not the fun stuff', and it's hard to remove your connection to the beat. When mixing others' stuff, I then feel the mixing as the 'fun' and 'creative' element.

It also gives those a bit more advanced some stuff to practise on, have some fun with, inform your own production, whilst helping someone out.

How it works?!
This isn't a mixing service thread. It's a collaborative learning type beat thing.

If you feel your mixes suck, or you're constantly hearing "this needs a better mix" etc, then post your mix of your beat in here, and post the stems too(maybe not the wholeee song tho), and then someone good will come along and do a little mix of it and post the result. From there you can compare it to your own, try to match it, ask questions how certain aspects were achieved etc.

Can be a good way together for everyone to learn, practise and have some fun.

 

[InsideOutBeats]

@Iron Keys, nice one, I might get around to posting something up soon. I especially like the thought of listening to how someone else has altered and mixed the beat then finding out what process they used to achieve that.
Once I get my laptop sorted that is : laptop + daughter + orange juice = disaster

 

[InsideOutBeats]

@Iron Keys, as I mentioned, can’t post stems and that yet but how about some good old advice from yaself and other ILLiens. It’s almost 1am but I’m still working on this beat, so : I currently have tracks consisting of 1 - drums, 2 - sample, 3 - baseline and 4 - strings.

All sounding pretty good together until the strings on top drowns out the sample. I’ve lowered that in my mix but seems too much going on and if I lower the strings anymore it doesn’t have the impact plus it took me ages to get that melody played on the pads.

What would you do mix wise or effects? I understand it’s hard to comment when you can’t here it.

 

[2GooD Productions]

@Iron Keys, as I mentioned, can’t post stems and that yet but how about some good old advice from yaself and other ILLiens. It’s almost 1am but I’m still working on this beat, so : I currently have tracks consisting of 1 - drums, 2 - sample, 3 - baseline and 4 - strings.

All sounding pretty good together until the strings on top drowns out the sample. I’ve lowered that in my mix but seems too much going on and if I lower the strings anymore it doesn’t have the impact plus it took me ages to get that melody played on the pads.

What would you do mix wise or effects? I understand it’s hard to comment when you can’t here it.

subtractive equing, cut the lows on the strings to thin them out a bit, maybe give a small boost in the sweet spot of the frequency range while cutting the same frequency in the sample.
Instead of increasing the volume of something to make it louder, you should instead make everything else quieter. Some small adjustments can be enough to make all the difference, other times you might have to go a bit more in depth, all depends on the sounds you are working with.

 

[InsideOutBeats]

subtractive equing, cut the lows on the strings to thin them out a bit, maybe give a small boost in the sweet spot of the frequency range while cutting the same frequency in the sample.
Instead of increasing the volume of something to make it louder, you should instead make everything else quieter. Some small adjustments can be enough to make all the difference, other times you might have to go a bit more in depth, all depends on the sounds you are working with.

Messing with lows now with effect AIR Para EQ, can hear major difference already. Headphones on but got my KRK rokits set up now so will listen on them later when the neighbours are awake got a day and a half off before work again so in between seeing my kids I’m putting the work in. Keep working and learning

 

[Iron Keys]

@Iron Keys, as I mentioned, can’t post stems and that yet but how about some good old advice from yaself and other ILLiens. It’s almost 1am but I’m still working on this beat, so : I currently have tracks consisting of 1 - drums, 2 - sample, 3 - baseline and 4 - strings.

All sounding pretty good together until the strings on top drowns out the sample. I’ve lowered that in my mix but seems too much going on and if I lower the strings anymore it doesn’t have the impact plus it took me ages to get that melody played on the pads.

What would you do mix wise or effects? I understand it’s hard to comment when you can’t here it.

You have to approach it with these questions:
- what is the main sound, the sample or the strings? And what's supporting? --- whichever sound is main gets priority for favourable space and EQ in the mix. Whatever is supporting is the one that will have to be willing to sacrifice in volume or eq cuts.
- what is the supporting element bringing? High end? Low warmth? Whatever it is bringing, focus on cutting what it's not bringing and highlighting what it is. Thus like i said being more ruthless in sacrificing what it doesn't need.

General mixing stuff to consider for the two sounds...
- also, whack out the lowpass and highpass filter(eq), and take away what cannn be taken away from each without ruining.
- have one more mono and one more stereo... doesn't have to be fully mono but just pull it in a bit.
- the supporting element should sacrifice a little in level in favour of the main, it its a sound that just kinda pops in, it could be given a little more stage as people will instinctively still hear the other

- m/s EQ ... used in conjunction with one sound being more mono and one wider, having opposite eqs for both on the mids and sides.

- compression on each sound should help give them a more consistent level too.

Also if sounds right, playing in a different octave or freq raange to the other sound so they naturally lean towards different frequencies.

All the above should help get you somewhere closer to where you want to be.

 

[InsideOutBeats]

Thanks @2GooD Productions and @Iron Keys.
One other question I’ve heard mentioned is a beat all sounding centered and to pan parts / instruments. I always pan my hats 20R but do you have an example of your own beats, instruments and panning as in what should stay central and what should be panned and or how much?
Come on, you know you love passing on the knowledge so I will keep asking…..

 

[InsideOutBeats]

@OGBama, when we gonna here something from you? Looking forward to it. I’m not no beat master quite yet but drastically improved from when I started and after being a bit of a ‘lurker’ on here just went fuck it post it up and see.
Constructive criticism, it’s all good, as in this thread fellow ILLiens helping ILLiens.
Even if you recorded yourself hitting bin lids, basket balls and bandicoots it’s a sound you can work on
Just make a move…..

 

[Iron Keys]

Thanks @2GooD Productions and @Iron Keys.
One other question I’ve heard mentioned is a beat all sounding centered and to pan parts / instruments. I always pan my hats 20R but do you have an example of your own beats, instruments and panning as in what should stay central and what should be panned and or how much?
Come on, you know you love passing on the knowledge so I will keep asking…..

Kick. Snare. Hat. = C

 

[Iron Keys]

For now. No more talking. Post beat + stems.

 

[InsideOutBeats]

Kick. Snare. Hat. = C

Ok pan everything else then?

 

[InsideOutBeats]

For now. No more talking. Post beat + stems.

Yes obie wan

 

[Iron Keys]

Yes obie wan

That's Iron Wan Keysnobi to you, padawan.

Ok pan everything else then?

Sometimes, maybe, sometimes maybe not.

 

[YannFer]

Ok pan everything else then?

Just passin' by and chimin' in : don't pan your bass please .

 

[2GooD Productions]

for orchestral positions you can use this

personally Id center my double basses, unless Ive filtered out a lot of the low and and Im just using the top end as a layer over a centered bass to add some width.
A lot of low mid to high frequency instruments including vocals can be panned effectively, what way you pan many of them depends on what you have going on on any particular side at a time.
I tend to pan hi hats slightly left, maybe have a shaker or open hat playing off it on the right but panning the open hat on the opposite side to the closed one isnt natural. Look at a drum kit, look where the cymbals are all placed, you can place your drums from the drummers perspective or the audiences perspective.
Playing a right panned shaker off a left panned closed hat can sound good and add some play between left and right making it more interesting to listen to.
I pan grand piano slightly to the left too normally as a convention to another orchestral placement diagram that put it there right at the back, if Im doing deep low end notes on the piano I will give the deep notes their own instrument track and have it centered, keeping the higher frequency notes panned slightly, either left by convention or playing off something already on the left so putting them right.
Its all about finding the right place for everything, listening for clashes and either removing an offending instrument, changing it or trying to mix it to work by carving it a space where it works, by gain, panning or equing as a first step, compression, saturation, maybe reverb and delay or some other effect like phase or chorus can just give something that wasnt working what it needed to work as later steps.
I love using ping pong delays, especially on vocals. The bouncing from left to right sounds pretty interesting and just utilises the stereo space in a more interesting way.

 

[Iron Keys]

No wants any actual mix help then??

I might have to get extra critical with the Beat This feedback to erm, motivate some engagement!

 

[Iron Keys]

Intended this to be more of an action thread. More practical.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Intended this to be more of an action thread. More practical.

I get you man, sounds like a good idea too, to show some of the other beatmakers how their beats could sound if mixed well. If the stems sound good I might be tempted to do a mix myself.

 

[InsideOutBeats]

No wants any actual mix help then??

I might have to get extra critical with the Beat This feedback to erm, motivate some engagement!

It’s a good thread @Iron Keys, I’m just away again for 3 days