why i like sampling(a composer's view)

[classic]

As a composer i bet yall werent expecting to here this from me. But for the past couple of months i have reaaly been getting into sampling and I love it

THe reason why i like it so much is that sampling is imprefect and im a perfectionist. When i compose i come up with the entire beat in my head. Before i even touch the keyboard i already know how the beat is going to sound. Its pretty much a done deal(i just gotta get the inspertation to make melodies)

With sampling its differnt, when i find something i wanna sample, i have NO idea how its going to sound. Usually the idea i start out with is totally differn then what i end up with . I usually end up chopping something on my MPC and coming up with a new idea that cant be found in the orginal sample. I find this very refreshing, almost like an adventure.

I still think some of my best work(which yall havent heard yet) is when i combine the 2.

Also there are so many differnce styles and ways to sample. Personally i think alot of the loop bassed stuff on the radio is pretty lame. But there is so much more then that and i dont think most people really understand. People gotta realise that u can sample more then old soul records. The possiblities are endless, greek ,russian,arabic chinese music are all open books. I found a style of music that is DOPE for sampling and i dont think anybody has tried it yet(like im gonna tell yall).

to me, sampling is alot more tidous then composing, when i compose i just get the right sounds and bang em out. WHen i sample, i gotta get my chops sounding on point, tune the sample, make sure everything fits etc... its a tidious process.( i realise this has alot to do wit natural abilitity

i definaly have a new respect for cats like premire, JD etc.. even though i aint a fan of there music

THe only thing i dont like about sampling is the fact that you have to rely on a source for your music. THats why i will always be a composer at heart, casue i like to create stuff from scratch....

Anyway just wanted to share my views, feel free to add ur own

class....

 

[bigdmakintrax]

I have been in the skool of Hard Knocks improving on sampling techniques and overall working on my music for projects. Working with my friend Dre of the Narcotics(He is ILL on the KEYS), and one of their 3 members who is also Masta Ace's cousin and he is producing joints for Stimuli who is Lord Digga's lil brother, they about to do it big with their talents they work out with just blaze in the studio(who also is producing joints on his upcoming album too) like it is nothing man I am lucky enuff to get a lot of info on some of the techniques too which I will share soon enuff, they about to bring something to the game right up that alley, sampling combined with REAL musicianship....when I was away from the site I got to meet some producers in NY doing it and it was a wake up call to my music but I feel you....I have been sampling simplisticly for awhile but started to implement my way.....a lot of people might not feel it but hey be creative and step out of the box......to those people who do not like my music...honestly I really do not care because I make music when i sit down and whatever comes out I build it into a beat from start to finish........but I see your music is taking on more personality with your sampliing Classic....it is more to it than meets the ear, there is a lot of techniques in sampling......PG is dope and so is Afrique.....I think this site has some talent right now that it is ready.....the music doesnt have to be perfect but it has to be ready...also never let anyone tell you that you cannot improve or get better that is completely false...Good Thread.

 

[Bloodybastid]

Sampling is beautiful....I have found some really beautiful obscure music just to listen to...not only to sample. And it's a lot harder than people think.

 

[Bloodybastid]

As a composer i bet yall werent expecting to here this from me. But for

Also there are so many differnce styles and ways to sample. Personally i think alot of the loop bassed stuff on the radio is pretty lame. But there is so much more then that and i dont think most people really understand. People gotta realise that u can sample more then old soul records. The possiblities are endless, greek ,russian,arabic chinese music are all open books. I found a style of music that is DOPE for sampling and i dont think anybody has tried it yet(like im gonna tell yall).


..

Another very good point. I NEVER sample old soul/blues records...most of my samples are obscure Italian/French soundtracks and music. But you have to realize most of Hip-Hop is based on loops...that's the beauty of it. If you buy a Gangstarr or Rza instrumental album, it's basically all loops.

 

[classic]

Another very good point. I NEVER sample old soul/blues records...most of my samples are obscure Italian/French soundtracks and music. But you have to realize most of Hip-Hop is based on loops...that's the beauty of it. If you buy a Gangstarr or Rza instrumental album, it's basically all loops.

Yea i know hip hop is looped based, what i ment is the 4 bar sped up soul samples that are getting radio play

class...

 

[DJ Xsinna]

As a composer i bet yall werent expecting to here this from me. But for the past couple of months i have reaaly been getting into sampling and I love it

THe reason why i like it so much is that sampling is imprefect and im a perfectionist. When i compose i come up with the entire beat in my head. Before i even touch the keyboard i already know how the beat is going to sound. Its pretty much a done deal(i just gotta get the inspertation to make melodies)

With sampling its differnt, when i find something i wanna sample, i have NO idea how its going to sound. Usually the idea i start out with is totally differn then what i end up with . I usually end up chopping something on my MPC and coming up with a new idea that cant be found in the orginal sample. I find this very refreshing, almost like an adventure.

I still think some of my best work(which yall havent heard yet) is when i combine the 2.

Also there are so many differnce styles and ways to sample. Personally i think alot of the loop bassed stuff on the radio is pretty lame. But there is so much more then that and i dont think most people really understand. People gotta realise that u can sample more then old soul records. The possiblities are endless, greek ,russian,arabic chinese music are all open books. I found a style of music that is DOPE for sampling and i dont think anybody has tried it yet(like im gonna tell yall).

to me, sampling is alot more tidous then composing, when i compose i just get the right sounds and bang em out. WHen i sample, i gotta get my chops sounding on point, tune the sample, make sure everything fits etc... its a tidious process.( i realise this has alot to do wit natural abilitity

i definaly have a new respect for cats like premire, JD etc.. even though i aint a fan of there music

THe only thing i dont like about sampling is the fact that you have to rely on a source for your music. THats why i will always be a composer at heart, casue i like to create stuff from scratch....

Anyway just wanted to share my views, feel free to add ur own

class....

Good thread Class!

man, I've listened to your work. Your tracks are solid!!! I liked that you compose your stuff. That's what i do as well. That's what I appreciate about your music. I've been combining composing & sampling since I first got into producing which has been at least 12 years ago. I am anxious to hear what you come up with now!! Bang away homie!

 

[StressWon]

Yea i know hip hop is looped based, what i ment is the 4 bar sped up soul samples that are getting radio play

class...

word. right. those are the only joints that seem to get burn,,,but wouldnt you agree,,,those type of beats are simple? C'mon, chop up a sample, bump up the tempo and line shit up in any sequencer, add extras,,voila! I think composin is the shit, but I have no hardware to really get down with....i cant fuck with the PC keyboard,,lol


good thread Tucker!

 

[Shonsteez]

Yea i know hip hop is looped based, what i ment is the 4 bar sped up soul samples that are getting radio play

class...

So yer basically sayin Kanye and imposters alike....I agree,...Tho some are catchy, i find it annoying more then anything.....

And i agree about the composing view Class....THats just how i am, cuz i have the whole thing in my head too, or afterwards when i start with a sample, i then have all these ideas that would fit perfect, and i think the imperfect part is finding the wierd shit that would fit in some how to fill that void....that part can be really hard sometimes....not the making the sample work part, but the "find jus the right one" part.....I love sampling for that tho....THats what makes it challenging and fun. As far as sample selecting goes, Ive never understood the whole "looking for a specific soul record thing"....Ive always thought the beauty in sampling was that any sample could be dope as long as u flip it proper, thats why i think samplings the shit, cuz i can take a guy coughing and use that as a percusion sound, and then i can use footsteps as my hihats, whatevers clever!......

 

[Bloodybastid]

I don't really listen to the radio so I don't know why you guys are talking about...but from what I have heard...it seems like the radio songs are just bunch of cheap sounding keys with catchy melodies.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

I meant to add this, composing is not separate from sampling....think about it.......playing out a melody with chords etc...(which yes I play too) has the same exact concept of picking your sample, placing it, arranging and tuning......there is no big difference or distinction, they same skills for the most part are required to make it sound either musical, infectious or catchy.....thing about hip hop because of the MC base, repetition or emphasis in the music is required to help the MC.....and also most hooks are written from the melody......there are not too many songs I can think of either sampled or played etc....not containing a melody that really became a hit for an MC or group.....the thing with sampling and playing.....are to learn your sound layering and blending what you play with what you sample, so even a pro cant tell if you sampled it or played it....basically I think being musical is great for all Genres, going too far when hip hop is concerned though just sort of starts to bleed over into....You are doing a completely different Genre......I stay close to MC's so a lot of the basis of my material is what I get reactions from not what sound sweet and musical purely as a stand alone instrumental.....I sometimes hear the beat in my head but you gonna think I am crazy......I hear a flow over my joints or a certain type of attitude an MC has etc.

 

[Qwerty]

So yer basically sayin Kanye and imposters alike....I agree,...Tho some are catchy, i find it annoying more then anything...../QUOTE]

Whoa, Kanye? Listen to Be, or Get lifted, is production is no loop and go. And Diamond, the track is a composition mix with sample.

 

[Formant024]

There's a rediculous amount of ways to use sampling and approaches towards principles of sampling. If I sum up the devices that sample with the available sequencers in my setup there are just too many options and I dont even have that much in regards to samplers and the expenses of the lot, software or not. I also dont have a solid setup, not one setup can be a proper one for all the times I want to get to work. Routings of signalpaths and midiconnections are made when a selection has been made out of the devices I want to use. All the device's audio and midi interfaces are hooked to patchpanels placed next to the console since the I/O of it is also patchable in the same rack of patchpanels. The samplers are "armed" to the patchpanel so I can hook a channelstrip with a mic from the studio to the inputs to record custom samples (live riffs, drums or chords). The midi routing is all synced up to logic and and slaves to the studio, 2mpc's ( at max, currently one serves as mpd, one as true workstation ), a TR505 and a TR606 via sync24 of the Drumstation. These syncs are devided over 8 inputs of a Roland A880 midipatchpay, where they can be routed to max. 8 outputs (I also have 4 midicontrollers spread through the controlroom with one free in the studio). I give each midichain in the output one sync signal to avoid midi excessive messages causing lag and giving sampler/drummachines priority but even more important, put them in first position in the midichain to get the best sync.

So in my arsenal are now, logic with EXS24, FL on RME9652, 2 MPC's, S750 and a ESI4000 free to connect anyway I want by any given thought, routing them signals through any channel on the mixer or any dynamic or fx processor. With enough room left to hook up laptops or other software without rearranging the lot. Im like the ol skool boom operator, short in wires.

Now these setups open up whole new catagories of music, there's art hidden in it for those who like to experiment. But more over these days it's much like an icon, lots of toys but no arts. We know it plays back a sample which is cool cause you have to do nada, just throw in an infinite possibility of noise, it's basicaly a synth. That's the shit I hear these days, which people are hyped about for fairly good reasons but it's not really impressive when you look at it technicaly like we addicts probably do. I mean, wow... 808 beatz...and they is using an mpc...sounds clean as fuck...big deal... It doesn't sound entirely the same to the original 808's dynamic response but basicaly, anyone on this board can do it to...at home, which is basicaly my point, it's too easy and why when everybody else is doing it too. I look for character in the machines I work with, the raw output of the S750 is gritty, the ESI is clean, respectively drums and phrases when speaking of purpose, which creates a whole different spectrum than using one device only, creating such harmonic contrasts with samplers creates it's own distinct "sound".

But, I have to say that in time I've changed my perspective upon the use of sampling. It wennt from exercising an artform, to the use of it as an utility cq tool. An instrument on it's own rather than a complete preproduction setup. The combo of them all remains best in my opinion, all going down together in the mix.

 

[Corpz]

great thread! i been samplin for close 2 3years and ive always been satisfied. sooner or later ill buy a keyboard and add more stuff that i feel in my head can fit in a track. i got massive amounts of respect for cats like Shadow and RJD2 which make an entire composition out of groups of samples from different records.

 

[Pharaoh Lite]

most of Hip-Hop is based on loops...that's the beauty of it. If you buy a Gangstarr or Rza instrumental album, it's basically all loops.

yeah but the whole of 'hip-hop' doesnt just consist of just Gangstarr and Rza. your pigeon-holing a specific style. and nearly ALL music loops, at some stage; that much is obvious.

creating variations in a composition gives it the notion that it is changing. its something i will admit i have been lazy in doing with my own work (mainly becuase i start something, get bored with it then start something else). but i havent heard very much 'variation' on the radio lately.

Yea i know hip hop is looped based, what i ment is the 4 bar sped up soul samples that are getting radio play

^^ hahaha, thats funny, when i think sampled old soul/blues records; i think Illmuzik!...hehe, nah not really, no offence to anyone.

i only just started sampling about 2 months ago. i was interested to see where i could go with it. i'm enjoying it more than i thought. but i believe i have a better understanding of where samples fit into a track because of the skills i've developed from original composition. of course this point will not be true for many producers.

every track on my soundclick page uses samples except for one. (which reminds me, i should get some of my original/composed tracks up soon). and like i said i only attempted to keep a ear out for samples about 2 months ago. i basically just got used to doing things from scratch. its the only way i could see to (learn) to make the specific kind of music i want. i've learnt a lot since i started and i believe in my specific case, my skills have developed differently.

 

[FTdub]

Sampling to me is dope on three levels. One is the mystique of taking a pre-existing piece of music and flipping to sound potentially tighter than the original. "Damn! You made that sound like that?!" Another is based on the theory that musical phrasing is finite, only a certain amount of notes that can only go into x beats. Then like a scientist or an inventor approaches their crafts, there is no need to reinvent the wheel, rather just altering bits and pieces to reconstruct the phrase until it better fits your liking. Finally if approached artistically, the quotation aspect of sampling creates the post modernistic musical form that we all love. By sampling a certain song or artist you empart emotional or psychological properties that add to how a song is received by the listener.

 

[Pharaoh Lite]

There's a rediculous amount of ways to use sampling and approaches towards principles of sampling. If I sum up the devices that sample with the available sequencers in my setup there are just too many options and I dont even have that much in regards to samplers and the expenses of the lot, software or not. I also dont have a solid setup, not one setup can be a proper one for all the times I want to get to work. Routings of signalpaths and midiconnections are made when a selection has been made out of the devices I want to use. All the device's audio and midi interfaces are hooked to patchpanels placed next to the console since the I/O of it is also patchable in the same rack of patchpanels. The samplers are "armed" to the patchpanel so I can hook a channelstrip with a mic from the studio to the inputs to record custom samples (live riffs, drums or chords). The midi routing is all synced up to logic and and slaves to the studio, 2mpc's ( at max, currently one serves as mpd, one as true workstation ), a TR505 and a TR606 via sync24 of the Drumstation. These syncs are devided over 8 inputs of a Roland A880 midipatchpay, where they can be routed to max. 8 outputs (I also have 4 midicontrollers spread through the controlroom with one free in the studio). I give each midichain in the output one sync signal to avoid midi excessive messages causing lag and giving sampler/drummachines priority but even more important, put them in first position in the midichain to get the best sync.

So in my arsenal are now, logic with EXS24, FL on RME9652, 2 MPC's, S750 and a ESI4000 free to connect anyway I want by any given thought, routing them signals through any channel on the mixer or any dynamic or fx processor. With enough room left to hook up laptops or other software without rearranging the lot. Im like the ol skool boom operator, short in wires.

Now these setups open up whole new catagories of music, there's art hidden in it for those who like to experiment. But more over these days it's much like an icon, lots of toys but no arts. We know it plays back a sample which is cool cause you have to do nada, just throw in an infinite possibility of noise, it's basicaly a synth. That's the shit I hear these days, which people are hyped about for fairly good reasons but it's not really impressive when you look at it technicaly like we addicts probably do. I mean, wow... 808 beatz...and they is using an mpc...sounds clean as fuck...big deal... It doesn't sound entirely the same to the original 808's dynamic response but basicaly, anyone on this board can do it to...at home, which is basicaly my point, it's too easy and why when everybody else is doing it too. I look for character in the machines I work with, the raw output of the S750 is gritty, the ESI is clean, respectively drums and phrases when speaking of purpose, which creates a whole different spectrum than using one device only, creating such harmonic contrasts with samplers creates it's own distinct "sound".

GOD DAMN! are you sure your replying to the same thread as the rest of us? i can be a show-off too... look at me, i have a lot of technical equipment and shit!!

hehe, just playin'!

 

[Formant024]

I cant help myself...nor my gear fetish. It's also just samplers and I/O I mentioned here, so I wont start on the backline and fx/dynamics lol!

 

[trinidad]

Composing is cool but it can sometimes lack the feel and sound that a sample can give u. For instance a recorded loop off a classical record has certain acustics and sounds that only an original sample can give, the grittyness of samples is a plus too, some time u can compose a beat with the same sample replayed but it most likely wont sound the same. its all on preferance though i guess, i started on Fl 5 years ago n i was composing melodies on the piano roll it was aiight but bout 2 years ago i discoved sampling and my mpc and i aint neva look back. my beats sound sooo much hotter with samples than b4, but to kind contradict my self i did buy triton le and plan to compose some stuff but its gonna be a mix of that and sampling. on a final note sometimes i agree that the 4 bar loops do sound ass out ie(number 1, the song using lets doit again, from John legends album, wack!) , but sometime keyboard beats sound cheezy too with the highly synthesised sounds, id like to see live instuments really jump off in hip hop for real.

 

[Pharaoh Lite]

"Composing is cool but it can sometimes lack the feel and sound that a sample can give u. For instance a recorded loop off a classical record has certain acustics and sounds that only an original sample can give, the grittyness of samples is a plus too, some time u can compose a beat with the same sample replayed but it most likely wont sound the same."

"i started on Fl 5 years ago n i was composing melodies on the piano roll it was aiight but bout 2 years ago i discoved sampling and my mpc and i aint neva look back".

well, obviously, FL Studio isnt gonna create 'real' sounds anyway, especially if your using nasty FL string presets in the piano roll! secondly, a very close to real sound is possible to create by composing, with the right equipment (strings in particular). one could even put it together in FL. all you need is a good sound module, a midi controller and a decent set of effects plugins...then from there it all depends on your skills with mixing, equalizing and addings effects like reverb and record noise.... and yes...there are such plugins that can emulate very real sounding record noise/crackle. there is an example of this on a horn sample in one of my recent tracks (below). originally it was a more crisp/clean single hit sample that i chopped and sequenced.
"Rhode less travelled" - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/pharaohlite_music.htm

now i dont want to contradict myself...the strings in this track need to be octaved or played with fuller notes/chords because they dont have a real/lush enough sound...but this string composition is me playing on a Yamaha keyboard and the actual patch/sound is taken from a Roland sound module. and with a little more work i will get this sounding pretty close to real. the bass in that track as well is a patch sound from the same module, but it was sequenced in Cubase. with the right amount of reverb and careful mixing, one can emulate an original bass guitar fairly well, or any instrument for that matter.

 

[trinidad]

well, obviously, FL Studio isnt gonna create 'real' sounds anyway, especially if your using nasty FL string presets in the piano roll! secondly, a very close to real sound is possible to create by composing, with the right equipment (strings in particular). one could even put it together in FL. all you need is a good sound module, a midi controller and a decent set of effects plugins...then from there it all depends on your skills with mixing, equalizing and addings effects like reverb and record noise.... and yes...there are such plugins that can emulate very real sounding record noise/crackle. there is an example of this on a horn sample in one of my recent tracks (below). originally it was a more crisp/clean single hit sample that i chopped and sequenced.
"Rhode less travelled" - http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/pharaohlite_music.htm

now i dont want to contradict myself...the strings in this track need to be octaved or played with fuller notes/chords because they dont have a real/lush enough sound...but this string composition is me playing on a Yamaha keyboard and the actual patch/sound is taken from a Roland sound module. and with a little more work i will get this sounding pretty close to real. the bass in that track as well is a patch sound from the same module, but it was sequenced in Cubase. with the right amount of reverb and careful mixing, one can emulate an original bass guitar fairly well, or any instrument for that matter.

naw i was using vsts and stuff the b4 i got the mpc, i also i had an evolution midi controller keyboaed, i was using plugsounds and the stienberg piano and some others, tru the record sound can be emulated but the sound of an orignal recording cant, feel me, the sound of the notes the room the equippment used and all that is really hard to replicate.its the whole mAKE up of sounds in the recording that makes the samples what they are.