Why are we dumbing down HipHop?

[Low G]

Teenagers are the biggest market because their cash isn't locked up in bills, rent, or taxes they spend all of their paycheck. Anything they want will sell easily and there will be a lot of it. I make hip hop music for adults not teenagers. I don't think the problem is people don't want to listen to my music I think it's marketed automatically to the wrong people under the big wide label of HIP HOP (nowadays that is).

Basically the title hip hop was taken from the culture by people who never understood it and slapped it on a whole lot of plastic bullshit to sell so everyone could be a part of the cool kids. If i tell someone I make hip hop music they automatically look at me and think I make what is on the radio right now and am a criminal. hip hop is not music it's many things and I think all us headz in here that are complaining need to take back that word that was stolen from us or else leave it be and start a new category because I'll be damned if my music will sit next to some kiddy pop bullshit.

I'm a young adult and I want to live in a better world so I make real music that reflects my experiences with life. Some of my friends reflect their experiences through dancing, painting on walls, spinning records, or writing rhymes. I just think that what myself and many others do doesn't belong in the same category as the pro gangster, guns, drugs, and selfishness bullshit. Stop trying to build empires and dynaties and try making some real music. I want to stand proudly behind hip hop and have the culture being respected and taken seriously instead of something that promotes hatred, greed and disrespect.

And one last thing to all the people that keep quoting nas' album "Hip Hop Is Dead" Give it a rest!!! Why are there still Graffiti Writers and B Boys? DJ's and Beatboxers? Emcees and Producers? When all these people stop what they do and there is not a single person left in the world that does any of those things that is when hip hop is dead. I understand that in certain areas... especially rural and smaller towns and cities there is no heavy hip hop culture but just because it's not in your area doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I might suggest moving, or stepping away from all your equipment and experiencing some of it because it is very real.

And just to bring things back on point "Stop Dumbing Down Hip Hop!!!"

Peace.

 

[Sincock]

^^^^ What LowG just said is 100% spot on, couldn't agree more with you. If you don't like the way Hip Hop is going then take yours where you wanna go. Don't let what's going on affect what you do in a negative way.

Seriously everything changes including Hip Hop, which is good; it means we have freedom to take things where we want, (the negative side of it is that others with different motives do too). I have to say I don't see so much of the crap cause I'm not sitting around watching music videos on BET or MTV or whatever shit you watch and I don't listen to bullshit commercial radio cause it doesn't have anything I want to hear, (never has). That's not where culture is.

Be positive and pay no heed to the crap, cause it's gonna always be there.

 

[Relic]

Word up Low!

But let me state again that I aint hatin on Southern rappers, hell I live here and know alot of good ones..
It just seems to me that the record companies Reeeaaallly like pushin that D-Boy shit from down here.
LDB's brother is a smart cat and a good MC from what little I heard and thats ATL , but what most folk tend to associate with that area now is yuk mouf gold grills and dumb rhymes.
Im sayin MC's all over need to smartin up their lyrics so we can smartin up the communites across the board.

 

[konceptG]

I've always said that hip hop was deliberately dumbed down to turn a profit. When hip hop was all about skills, most MC's were talking over the average joe's head. Granted, this generally means that you need to step up your understanding, but really what it did was kind of alienate cats. When Hammer and Vanilla Ice started to hit big with simple rhymes and catchy hooks, record companies raised an eyebrow, but figured it was just a passing phase. Sir Mix-A-Lot, 95 South, Tag Team, and Luke had huge hits based on the same formula and the record companies took notice. During the 90's it was still fairly rare for an artist to go gold, so those that went platinum plus had to be examined. With the exception of The Wu (1 plat and 1 4x plat), Biggie (4x plat/10x plat), Jay Z (every release multi plat), The Fugees (6x plat) and Pac (he's a whole topic by himself), the glut of platinum rap artists had the same formula: Simple lyrics and catchy hooks. Now the record companies took notice because the formula has proven itself. With the deregulation of radio in 1996, it became easier to exploit this formula by relentlessly pushing this junk on the masses. From 1996 to today, you can see fewer pure lyricists topping the charts and more garbage flooding it. Jay Z figured it out and incorporated it into his style by giving everyone a hook to sing and regurgitating the same material and adding more flossing to his songs. 50 Cent came out the gate with a neutral, non-NYC style that has the same formula (every song has a catchy hook), and then the south blew up with nothing but "The Formula" to it's credit. The Formula works so well that good southern acts can't even get play unless they stupify themselves or are named "Outkast" (who's fanbase has been steadily growing). Even Outkast has catchy hooks in their shit now.

Eventually, people grow tired of the same shit over and over. People are tired of the same old drug tales and simple lyrics. Tired of the song with a built-in dance. Tired of the same ole shit. Nas's "Hip Hop Is Dead" and Common's "Finding Forever" came in at #1 on the Billboard charts. Talib Kweli's #2 debut for "Eardrum" and last year's #4 spot for Ghostface's "Fishscale" is reassuring that this trend will fade eventually.

 

[ManDAmyth]

The Trend Is Definitely Fading. We Need To Develop Our Own Outlets.

Are There Any Public Access Video Shows On The Market Anymore?

 

[NobleWordz]

yo, aint nothin wrong w/ expanding your horizons...yeah Nas did a crunk joint...and that oochie wally shit. But in comparison...in the last 15 years....aint too many dudes in the game that made more real hip hop than him. So to point him out in this thread is crazy. Especially since all he said was Hip Hop is dead....he aint say Crunk killed it. It's just rappers in the south took it personally...like they felt guilty or something. Started rockin they "Hip Hop aint Dead, it just lives in the South" t-shirts. Which was real funny to me.
Anyway, I agree w/ Ash....I think that trend is startin to turn around.......slowly.
But it's up to us to continue that movement. I mean....we are all tryin to accomplish something here. Me personally....I'd rather be remembered as a real hip hop emcee and be able to live off the shit comfortably, than to be stupid rich and be remembered as a ring tone rapper...aka Soulja Boy, Joc, that dumb mafucka that sings that "then you get some *%$# in the front seat of the hummer".....I don't care how old any of them are....but Ash is right...don't be mad at them....be mad at the consumer....the dj's, and them wack dudes that allow them talentless mafuckas to eat.

"Most importantly thanks to you, the CUSTOMERS" Jay-Z

Look I'm the biggest Nas fan, but he is a hypocrite. And he did it to cause controversy and sell music.

Many artists have come out and said HHID was an attack on southern artists, even Andre 3000 spoke up about it. Your living in another world if you believe it wasn't.

If they can make a living of making of ring tones and making pop music who are we to condemn them? just because we don't agree with it?

I hate to bring him up again but how was MC Hammer any different? was he real? Was Vanilla Ice real?

NW

 

[LDB]

The Real Problem!

You can blame the south, you can blame the labels, you can blame the industry in general but IMO all the fingers need to be pointed at the government, the education system and the "parents" of the average listener. Hip Hop has been dumbed down because the average listener has been "dumbed down"! Check the dropout rate, it's staggering. It has never been this high, not since they started keeping track of it. Our future is being "dumbed down" by a system that doesn't genuinely care about our kids, especially minorities. You have single parent family's that have to work from sun up to sun down just to earn a decent living. If you had to make the choice of feeding, clothing and keeping a roof over you and your kids head, or missing days of work to make sure they are being educated properly which will probably lead to you getting fired, what would the average person do? This is the choice that we're being faced with today. The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer. You have to work twice as hard just to maintain a half ass quality of life. They can't put in the time with there kids after the end of the day school bell rings. They're depending on a system to educate and practically raise there children. What better way to control a people than to "dumb them down"? If you can't think past what you do on a daily you're no more than a modern day slave. Ask the average kid on the block where they see themselves in 5 years? Most won't have an answer at all! There not even saying a professional athlete anymore because you have to at least do a year in College to do that. Education has become the average kids enemy. They fight against it like it was the "boogie man".

We are in the second generation of "crack babies" and fatherless kids. And at the rate woman are dropping from AIDS a new trend is right around the corner. The oldest kid will be raising the other kids in the family soon. My wife on a weekly basis is seeing 4 or more patients being admitted to the hospital with "full blown AIDS" who die within a week, they didn't even know it they had AIDS. 3/4's of them being women between 25 and 35!

The average kids brain doesn't develop past a 4th or 5th grade level because they were born of crack heads or parents that abused everything under the Sun, including "sex" i.e the rapid spread of AIDS. This shit is way bigger than "Hip Hop", the sooner we realize that and start concentrating on more than "bringing real hip hop" back the better off we'll be. That "real hip hop" we'll never be understood by a kid or person who can't comprehend past a 5th grade level. That's why the labels aren't pushing that out. It won't sell. You can't ask a business not to be business minded. That's asinine! They've always been in this to make money and you can't hate on them for that. The average age of the person who bought Commons album was over 25! "Us" making one hip hop artist go gold won't save hip hop!

This is why you're being bombarded with this "dumbed down" hip hop.

Wake up and stop blaming the obvious.....what you hear on the regular is all these stupid MF's aka the "average" listener can comprehend! There's a reason why everybody in a position of power came out strong against that BET commercial "READ A BOOK mother fucker read a book", it shined a very bright light on one of the real problems that they don't want to have to answer for. THINK ABOUT IT!

 

[Relic]

Nice LDB good point as well, If you can just get all that to rhyme then you have the type of song Im talkin about!
You see I think that THATS the type of message that needs to be in the music.
But like you say, they aint gonna wanna sell that. lol

You have though completely nailed the message I think artists ought to be putting out, if the system doesnt educate them , I think we ought to, I learned alot of sdhit from hiphop or as a direct result of listenin to certain artists got involved with reading certain books.

 

[Krazyfingaz]

I dont hate the south I hate wack rappers and thats who's dumbing down Hip Hop (wack rappers). I remember when and now in choice cases where Hip Hop music made you think. now its all about money and bullshit.
edit- LDB perfectly sumed it up.

 

[classic]

Sidenote

I dont hate the south.. but i think it has alot to do with the state of hip hop right now becasue thats the region where the hip hop spotlight has been the last 5 years...

instead of trying to diversify cats are following the same trends and weak club anthems... Everybody in mainstream hip hop is guilty of this but the south should take responsiblitity becasue they are the region in control right now... they are the ones that are being mimiked by everyone else... the old heads who held down the region for so long have bounced and the young dudes are making one hit wonders without ANY diversity.. they are setting themselves up for the backlash which will happen

If we were having this converstion 10-12 years ago i would be saying the same thing about the whole west coast gansta thing....

 

[Relic]

I dont hate the south I hate wack rappers and thats who's dumbing down Hip Hop (wack rappers). I remember when and now in choice cases where Hip Hop music made you think. now its all about money and bullshit.
edit- LDB perfectly sumed it up.

Yeah you cant hate the south dude, Im IN the south and Im telling you there are some talanted ass cats here who ARENT dumbing down hiphop, in fact this whole thread started as a result of a conversation me and my artist StepChild were having, if you ever heard him you know that we are opposite of what would be labeled the typical southern rap.

That being said if you have never been to the ATL you cant appreciate how good that shit is IN the ATL tho..lol

And Class, they wont LET you do much else around here, the shit we have done just gets the screw face and the "that aint whats happenin" whilst the ignant get glorified...Very frustrating.

 

[LDB]

Comical!

A few posts later and we're right back at the surface. The obvious! You can't weaken or kill cancer poking at it's surface. You have to attack it at it's core. No matter what, these topics always get pigeon held by someone pointing the finger at the south directly or in directly. The dog keeps chasing it's tail, thus the topic goes no where fast. Starting a statement by saying "I don't hate the south" is just like a sports athlete saying "it's not about the money" when in fact it is!

 

[2GooD Productions]

I can very much assure everyone that the dumbing down of hiphop has nothing to do with the south.
Its been going on in the uk hiphop for quite a while along with other mc genres like garage and drum n bass.
You see its not the dumbing down of hiphop, its the dumbing down of society.
Artforms like hiphop just reflect where society is at.

And LDB i agree 100% with your post before the one above this.

 

[Ash Holmz]

I can very much assure everyone that the dumbing down of hiphop has nothing to do with the south.
Its been going on in the uk hiphop for quite a while along with other mc genres like garage and drum n bass.
You see its not the dumbing down of hiphop, its the dumbing down of society.
Artforms like hiphop just reflect where society is at.

good point.. its kinda like if I was a TV show director and I was analyzing the "reality show" craze... its just dumb television really with no real imagination or creativity put into it... and the shows just come and go and one gets replaced by the next. It almost mimics the state of hip hop right now. I think thats where society is at right now.. but like i said, i think its slowly turning around for the better. SLOWLY, but its going.

and for the record i dont blame the south .. The problem is that somewhere down the line people started thinking that rapping, hustling, and crowd hyping all were the same thing lmao! Somewhere down the line people got the idea that if u hustle dope, and get money on tha block, it somehow meant u were entitled to rhyme and be a rapper. and the funny thing is they themselves know it and dont even care... theres like 6 rappers i can think of right now that openly admit they cant rap, yet are signed to major labels. Alot of these niggas sound like hypemen lol... what used to be a hypeman type of flow is now the main act lol. think about it. young joc,jeezy,lil jon, them niggas is hypemen in my book. they are known more for their dances,adlibs, and shout hooks than their lyrics or punchlines lol. the game is a bucnha rock slangin flava flavs and spliff stars with deals. tell me diffrent lol.

 

[Benny BuKu]

Look I'm the biggest Nas fan, but he is a hypocrite. And he did it to cause controversy and sell music.

Many artists have come out and said HHID was an attack on southern artists, even Andre 3000 spoke up about it. Your living in another world if you believe it wasn't.

If they can make a living of making of ring tones and making pop music who are we to condemn them? just because we don't agree with it?

I hate to bring him up again but how was MC Hammer any different? was he real? Was Vanilla Ice real?

NW

Nas said "Go to every station and murda the dj".....and yet he was invited to every major radio station in the country. Why would the south take it to heart? I think there is alotta truth to what Classic said about the younger cats, copycattin the ring tone shit. And I did say, we should point the finger at the "customers". They're the ones puttin money in these talentless fucks pockets. But the dj and the radio are the ones brainwashing the general public...nah mean.

Bottom line, I grew up listening to real hip hop. So I have the right to be pissed at anyone who makes a mockery of it. And that list just continues to grow while you blame Nas....and try to compare him to MC Hammer<--------wow Nas has done it ALL...and I agree, some of it was wack...some of it was for money. But there is no denying he is one of the GREATEST EMCEES of ALL TIME. So let's try and show him some respect and stop mentioning him in a thread called "why are we dumbing down hip hop"..........seriously.

 

[StressWon]

Sidenote

I dont hate the south.. but i think it has alot to do with the state of hip hop right now becasue thats the region where the hip hop spotlight has been the last 5 years...

instead of trying to diversify cats are following the same trends and weak club anthems... Everybody in mainstream hip hop is guilty of this but the south should take responsiblitity becasue they are the region in control right now... they are the ones that are being mimiked by everyone else... the old heads who held down the region for so long have bounced and the young dudes are making one hit wonders without ANY diversity.. they are setting themselves up for the backlash which will happen

If we were having this converstion 10-12 years ago i would be saying the same thing about the whole west coast gansta thing....

couldn't of said it better myself. Thanks Class...

Bottom line, I grew up listening to real hip hop. So I have the right to be pissed at anyone who makes a mockery of it. And that list just continues to grow while you blame Nas....and try to compare him to MC Hammer<--------wow Nas has done it ALL...and I agree, some of it was wack...some of it was for money. But there is no denying he is one of the GREATEST EMCEES of ALL TIME. So let's try and show him some respect and stop mentioning him in a thread called "why are we dumbing down hip hop"..........seriously.

Tell em son. Seriously. I agree

 

[LDB]

I can very much assure everyone that the dumbing down of hiphop has nothing to do with the south.
Its been going on in the uk hiphop for quite a while along with other mc genres like garage and drum n bass.
You see its not the dumbing down of hiphop, its the dumbing down of society.
Artforms like hiphop just reflect where society is at.

And LDB i agree 100% with your post before the one above this.

Wow! Producers outside the country can see what's really going on but dudes right here in the "good ole USA" haven't a clue!

 

[Quality]

A few posts later and we're right back at the surface. The obvious! You can't weaken or kill cancer poking at it's surface. You have to attack it at it's core. No matter what, these topics always get pigeon held by someone pointing the finger at the south directly or in directly. The dog keeps chasing it's tail, thus the topic goes no where fast. Starting a statement by saying "I don't hate the south" is just like a sports athlete saying "it's not about the money" when in fact it is!




Wow! Producers outside the country can see what's really going on but dudes right here in the "good ole USA" haven't a clue!

Dude, your opinion isn't the same as everyone elses. Just because someone has a different opinon on why hip hop is dumbing down, doesn't mean they don't "have a clue." I haven't seen anyone in this thread strictly saying that hip hop is basically dumbed down, its all the south's fault (I dunno though, I might have skipped a few response though cause this is a long thread lol). Even though I don't really like South Hip Hop very much in general, that doesn't make me a "hater" of the south. It just ain't my flavor. I mean, I heard a good point by dude once, that music is just like food in a way. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. For example, Just because I'm a big pasta lover, and don't really like seafood, that should be fine with everyone else. It shouldn't matter that you like seafood, and I don't. Same with music. Just becaue I like concious/old school hip hop, and don't like the south as much, there shouldn't be anything wrong with that. (That don't mean that I don't like the South in general, just mainly a lot of the mainstream stuff. I'm sure that there are plenty of great, talented artists from the South that I haven't heard of).

There is nothing wrong with declaring the that you don't hate the south. Anybody can say that, and if thats how they feel, why go blast them and saying thats basically not true. (Also, I'm sure that most of time when an athlete says its not about the money, its generally true. When I had dreams about playing basketball in the NBA when I was younger, I wasn't thinking "Hey I should go an get rich playing basketball." I thought about the chance do something I love to do (basketball), and enjoy playing every day while making a living. Of course a lot of athletes do lie about that too, but don't just call all of them liers even though this is completely off topic).

You do have a point that the US in general is dumbing down. It is true for the most part, imo. But I also don't think its right to blame it all on the government. Its more than just that. Its a number of factors all playing a part into this hip hop dumbing down thing. It has everything to do with a combination of things such as nothing but the same artists/songs getting all the attention, the US ain't doing a top notch job educating kids (I'm not surprised due to how little teachers get paid), everyone fallowing the trends instead of doing themselves, all the "ringtone rappers" making songs that people can shake to so other artists think "thats how I can earn a living doing this", etc. etc. I could go on all day, but my point is that hip hop took this spiral turn down due to many factors. Hopefully it is finally starting to turn around in the right direction, like other cats have said in this thread.

 

[LDB]

"Dude"...lol I'm very aware that I'm amongst the minority here on ILL. That's nothing to me...I thrive off of adversity. I'm in the south...I'm not on the outside like most here looking in. I live this everyday. I'm deep in this red clay jungle. I'm not a southerner living elsewhere commenting on the south...I'm right here doing what I do in the south on a daily. The south is much bigger musically than most dudes outside of it think it is. I'm going to keep pushing my agenda so you can keep pushing yours. Hate only breeds more hate....dislike only breeds more dislike. Go thru every post I've ever made and you won't find one with me dissin' this "real hip hop" that people always want to point out. I love it as a whole. I pay homage to the creators of hip hop. I don't put one form above the other and I don't break it down to what's real or what's fake. That's me...that's what I do...do u because 'til I'm planted I'm going to be doing me. If conscious rap makes it's come back from the south first then what.....lol. If real hip hop comes back to the forefront with a southern twang then what....lol Since the ball is in our court from what most here are saying it's possible huh? I wonder what the excuse for bashing the south will be if that happens. It's not set in stone that hip hop will make it's great come back from north of the Mason Dixon. Winds of change are blowing but who knows from where they'll derive? At the recent BET awards I sure saw a big spot light being shined on hip hop artist from abroad. Something to think about huh? lmbao EU stand da fuck up....lol

Every major artist is touring in Europe right now. Where was Ye when he got the news of his moms passing....London right.....where did 50 go platinum first....Europe right. Don't think for one minute that the "industry" isn't peeping that out. This shit might jump clean to another side of the world and leave us all buried in this this bullshit blame game.

 

[StressWon]

"Dude"...lol I'm very aware that I'm amongst the minority here on ILL. That's nothing to me...

why did you mention it?

..and no, I don't believe that to be true. Ill is crazy diverse.