Who Is A Hip Hop Pioneer?

[MIKELABZ]

After A Controversial Thread On Whether Or Not Big L Was A Rap Pioneer, Im Bringing This Thread To The Forefront.

If U Are The Only One Blazing A Trail Through A New Style Of Rapping U Are A Pioneer. If U Raise Ur Pant Leg Before Any One Else Not Only Is Ur Name Ll Cool J, U Are A Pioneer. If U Rap About Being A Modern Day Pimp From The East Coast With A Word Count Per Minute That Is Off The Charts, Not Only Have U Pioneered A New Rap Style And Image, Ur Name Is Big L And U Made Jay-z. What About Rakim And His Bling? Sure There Was Rakim With The Paid In Full Album, But Rakim Was A Pioneer All In His Own. Rakim Was A Pioneer For Muslim Rappers. Eminem Was A Pioneer For Poor White Kids Turned To Rap Artist Who Can Relate To Black And Whites As Well. Dr. Dre Was A Pioneer For The Rapping Producer. Following Him Was Mos Def, Kanye West, And Me. Talib Kweli Was A Pioneer In Black Awarness In His Rhymes. Who Else? O Yea, The Roots Were Pioneers In Fusing Live Band With Hip Hop. If Ur Name Is Kid Rock U Are A Pioneer In Fusing Rock And Hip Hop. If U Pioneered The Hip Hop Business Man Approach Then Ur Name Is Puff Daddy.... Need I Say More?

Bottom Line If U Aint Doing It Different Trying To Be Another Pioneer Then U Fall Between The Cracks.

-mike

 

[KIRK T]

nuff respect to all you mentioned, but many of them werent the 1st to do what they did... Rakim was definitely not the 1st muslim to get down..
Stet was the 1st hip hop band.. Way before the roots, rush was the 1st big business man.. Not puff.. Kid rock aint the 1st to fuse rock & hip hop, that was done years ago.. But maybe hes the 1st redneck to do it..


Anyway, I dont disagree with you that those heads are all trailblazers.. But I personally reserve the title pioneer for a select few..

 

[MIKELABZ]

nuff respect to all you mentioned, but many of them werent the 1st to do what they did... Rakim was definitely not the 1st muslim to get down..
Stet was the 1st hip hop band.. Way before the roots, rush was the 1st big business man.. Not puff.. Kid rock aint the 1st to fuse rock & hip hop, that was done years ago.. But maybe hes the 1st redneck to do it..


Anyway, I dont disagree with you that those heads are all trailblazers.. But I personally reserve the title pioneer for a select few..

YO THIS IS JUST SO I CAN KNOW.

WHO WAS THE FIRST MUSLIM?
DID STET USE LIVE DRUMS, GUITARS, AND KEYBOARDS LIKE THE ROOTS DO?
DID RUSH PRODUCE, PROMOTE, AND RAP AS WELL AS BE A BUSINESS MAN?
WHO FUSED ROCK AND HIP HOP BEFORE KID ROCK?

-MIKE

 

[Formant024]

YO THIS IS JUST SO I CAN KNOW.

WHO FUSED ROCK AND HIP HOP BEFORE KID ROCK?

-MIKE

Run dmc, beastie boys, the whole judgement night album was a fact before Kid Rock.

 

[MIKELABZ]

Run dmc, beastie boys, the whole judgement night album was a fact before Kid Rock.

WOULD U CALL THAT MORE HIP HOP OR ROCK?

WHEN I HEAR KID ROCK THE ONLY THING THAT LETS ME KNOW ITS HIP HOP IS THE RAPPING.
SO I GUESS I SHOULD REPHRASE.
WHAT WHITE GUYS CAME OUT BEFORE KID ROCK AND FUSED RAPPING WITH ROCK AND ROLL RIFFS?

BEASTIE BOYS?

IM JUST CURIOUS, CAUSE I ALWAYS SAW THE BEASTIE BOYS AS HAVING A DJ TO DO ALL THEIR TRACKS. THEN AGAIN WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT I WAS STILL A VERY YOUNG CHILD.

 

[Fade]

If U Raise Ur Pant Leg Before Any One Else Not Only Is Ur Name Ll Cool J, U Are A Pioneer.

No, you're an idiot. LL's cool but that whole pant leg thing was terrible.

LOL, I hear what you're saying though about the whole pioneer thing but it's too hard to say this guy started this and this guy started that. Lots of times it's someone unknown that pioneers something and someone who's well known makes it popular.

 

[The Bastard]

the rza- commmin up wit the idea to have a 9 person crew signed as a band with one label with the option to have each member sign with another label as a solo

 

[KIRK T]

"WHO WAS THE FIRST MUSLIM?"
Ya got me.. But it sure as hell wasnt Rakim. 5% mcs been around since the dawn of hip hop.

"DID STET USE LIVE DRUMS, GUITARS, AND KEYBOARDS LIKE THE ROOTS DO?"
Sometimes yeah, sometimes no.. They were the original hip hop band.. Stetsasonic.. cmon..

"DID RUSH PRODUCE, PROMOTE, AND RAP AS WELL AS BE A BUSINESS MAN?"
You said.. "If U Pioneered The Hip Hop Business Man Approach Then Ur Name Is Puff Daddy.." Russell was bringin hip hop to the mainstream when puff was just a kid. Hip Hop was HUGE by the time puffy put his hand in the mix. Shit.. Even years later everyone was rollin with rush.. Long before anyone heard of puff daddy.

WHO FUSED ROCK AND HIP HOP BEFORE KID ROCK?
Shit.. Everyone.. He just did it from a rock perspective.. While the others were generally hip hop records.. But everyone knows the beatie boys started as a punk rock band...

 

[Formant024]

WOULD U CALL THAT MORE HIP HOP OR ROCK?

WHEN I HEAR KID ROCK THE ONLY THING THAT LETS ME KNOW ITS HIP HOP IS THE RAPPING.
SO I GUESS I SHOULD REPHRASE.
WHAT WHITE GUYS CAME OUT BEFORE KID ROCK AND FUSED RAPPING WITH ROCK AND ROLL RIFFS?

BEASTIE BOYS?

I dont really care if they are black or white, wasnt the question anyway, but yeah, if you rephrase the question than it's the beastie boys.

IM JUST CURIOUS, CAUSE I ALWAYS SAW THE BEASTIE BOYS AS HAVING A DJ TO DO ALL THEIR TRACKS. THEN AGAIN WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT I WAS STILL A VERY YOUNG CHILD.

beastie boys are a band, they play real instruments themselves. Mixmaster master mike is a latino so considering the rephrasing of your question I guessing he dont really count. Besides that criteria, mixmaster mike is a turntablist, if he's bringing the beat he's juggling and not producing the music and if he aint juggling he scratching to the white people's production.


awwww, a little child ...

 

[Cold Truth]

uhh there was this band of white guys, they were called aerosmith, they did a joint with some group called run dmc... it was called "walk this way".

oh and this other group of white guys, they were called antrax... they did a song called "bring the noise" with some black guys, i dont remember they said they were a "public enemy" or something.....

but neither of these groups were real significant.

later on, some other white guys from detroit in clown masks did it, and some florida guys with limp dicks did it... there was also this guy named ice tea, but while he was very light skinned he was black and therefore excluded from this. there was also sublime and a band called incubus who both blended prominant hip hop elements.

but, if you reduce to criteria to long haired solo artists whose biggest influence was lynard skynard and launched their major label debut on the Lava Records imprint in 1998, then yeah, Kid Rock is a pioneer.

he did do a so-so and little known abuot RAP record in 1990 on the Jive imprint Zomba Records though.. but that was mainly a rap record.

 

[Formant024]

no man, the dmc is turntablist championship by Technics...

Public enemy ? Never heard of it...

But rage against the machine, now thats hiphop, smoking sucker with logic, that's rock.


...and tim dog made love ballads

 

[Cold Truth]

you know, exactly.

 

[MIKELABZ]

awwww, a little child ...

YEA CONSIDERING I WAS ABOUT 4 YEARS OLD IN 1988.

BUT ANYWAY...

WHAT WHITE GUY PICKED UP THE MIC BEFORE KID ROCK WITH HIS OWN ROCK BAND AND SPIT RAP?

I AM OFFICAILLY DISQUALIFYING THE BEASTIE BOYS SINCE THEY ARE A GROUP WHO RAP AS A COLLABORATIVE.

 

[Formant024]

I AM OFFICAILLY DISQUALIFYING THE BEASTIE BOYS SINCE THEY ARE A GROUP WHO RAP AS A COLLABORATIVE.

well, that why they call it a group, they collaborate...

Other than that like mentioned before here, they did rock, garage and punk but came out with rap ( as a rock, garage, punk formation ) at the same time run dmc stepped into the game. They got acknowledged with the likes of Run DMC, LL etc. RATM is a rock formation and Zack raps aswell as is the lead singer of the group, they we're so hiphop that Chuck D did some intensive touring with these guys. As for the rest there are many punk like bands, often skate/snowboarding or other xtreme sport biased that rap with while their buddies imitate Valhallen like poses. Think of Dog eat dog and consorts.

 

[MIKELABZ]

well, that why they call it a group, they collaborate...

Other than that like mentioned before here, they did rock, garage and punk but came out with rap ( as a rock, garage, punk formation ) at the same time run dmc stepped into the game. They got acknowledged with the likes of Run DMC, LL etc. RATM is a rock formation and Zack raps aswell as is the lead singer of the group, they we're so hiphop that Chuck D did some intensive touring with these guys. As for the rest there are many punk like bands, often skate/snowboarding or other xtreme sport biased that rap with while their buddies imitate Valhallen like poses. Think of Dog eat dog and consorts.

BUT UNLIKE KID ROCK, WHO RAPS ALONE, THE BEASTIE BOYS ALL RAP. THEREFORE THEY ARE DISQUALIFIED.

 

[M!nd_Ctrl]

Mike,

Do you remember Faith No More? They had a song called "Epic" in which the singer "raps." And the Kottonmouth Kings have been combining Punk and Rap since before Kid Rock my man. So just admit that Kid Rock is not a pioneer in combining Rock and Rap, he's just a "pop" artist that blew up using a format that others before him had used.

And Eminem was not the pioneer in the field you mentioned, he just became the biggest White rapper of all time. Vanilla Ice showed White kids they could rap. Snow was White. 3rd Base and House of Pain were White. And so the the Beastie Boys.

I agree that an innovative idea is to be considered "pioneering," but the term is not to be used so loosely/arbitrarily AND platinum selling "pop" artists are not the only pioneers.

Ctrl

 

[Formant024]

BUT UNLIKE KID ROCK, WHO RAPS ALONE, THE BEASTIE BOYS ALL RAP. THEREFORE THEY ARE DISQUALIFIED.

Man, you must in denial, some weird criteria you have.

 

[Formant024]

Mike,

Do you remember Faith No More? They had a song called "Epic" in which the singer "raps." And the Kottonmouth Kings have been combining Punk and Rap since before Kid Rock my man. So just admit that Kid Rock is not a pioneer in combining Rock and Rap, he's just a "pop" artist that blew up using a format that others before him had used.

And Eminem was not the pioneer in the field you mentioned, he just became the biggest White rapper of all time. Vanilla Ice showed White kids they could rap. Snow was White. 3rd Base and House of Pain were White. And so the the Beastie Boys.

I agree that an innovative idea is to be considered "pioneering," but the term is not to be used so loosely/arbitrarily AND platinum selling "pop" artists are not the only pioneers.

Ctrl

How about YBT, which I didnt really understand because I think half the group was white hehe. But tap the bottle... Hella nice track for amok.

And the first and fastest mc, that must've been chip fu, the guy had spitfire with flow, good pronunciation and humour too.

First acid jazz/jazz hiphop xover... digable planets, Jazzmataz came a bit later but still wasnt as good as Reachin'.

 

[MIKELABZ]

Mike,

Do you remember Faith No More? They had a song called "Epic" in which the singer "raps." And the Kottonmouth Kings have been combining Punk and Rap since before Kid Rock my man. So just admit that Kid Rock is not a pioneer in combining Rock and Rap, he's just a "pop" artist that blew up using a format that others before him had used.

And Eminem was not the pioneer in the field you mentioned, he just became the biggest White rapper of all time. Vanilla Ice showed White kids they could rap. Snow was White. 3rd Base and House of Pain were White. And so the the Beastie Boys.

I agree that an innovative idea is to be considered "pioneering," but the term is not to be used so loosely/arbitrarily AND platinum selling "pop" artists are not the only pioneers.

Ctrl

YO YO YO,
ALL I WAS SAYING IS THAT I NEEDED PROOF. I WASNT SETTING ANYTHING IN STONE. I WANTED TO KNOW WHO DID KID ROCK BEFORE KID ROCK. I SAID BEASTIE BOYS DONT COUNT CAUSE THEY ALL RAP. WHATS SO HARD TO FIGURE ABOUT THAT? I SEE U NAMING A BUNCH OF GROUPS WHO DO MORE THEN RAP, BUT I DONT SEE U NAMING ONE PERSON WHO FLAT OUT RAPS WITH A ROCK BAND BEHIND HIM... A ROCK BAND WHO DONT RAP AT ALL.

AS FOR EMINEM.

VANILLA ICE WAS A POINEER CAUSE HE WAS THE FIRST WHITE RAPPER OVER RAP BEATS, EMINEM WAS A PIONEER CAUSE HE WAS THE FIRST WHITE RAPPER OVER RAP BEATS WHO WAS ACCEPTED WORLDWIDE. LAST TIME I CHECKED VANILLA ICE WAS GETTING BOOED AND THEN HE WAS ON SURREAL LIFE. LAST TIME I CHECKED EMINEM EXECUTIVELY PRODUCED A COUPLA ALBUMS. LAST TIME I CHECKED EMINEM HAD HIS OWN PRODUCTION AGENCY.

I WOULD CALL THAT BEING A PIONEER.

 

[Guevara]

Rakim Was A Pioneer For Muslim Rappers.

ARE YoU AWARE oF THE THiNGS THAT YoU SAY???
i HAVENT EVEN READ PAST THE iNiTiAL PoST So THiS MiGHT BE A REiTERATiON oF WHoEVER ELSE DECiDED To POiNT oUT HoW DUMB YoU MAKE YoURSELF oUT To BE.
HoW Do YoU JUDGE A MUSLiM RAPPER???
WHEN WAS THERE A MARKET CREATED FoR MUSLiM RAPPERS???
WHAT THE FUCK iS A MUSLiM RAPPER???

YoU oN SoME TRENDY PoPCULTURE SHiT.