Where do we go from here?

[Ominous]

You can go into any thread on here about anything. And you will find at least on person he doesn't like what they are reading or the producer everyone is pumping up. My question is....

Where do we go? Has everything been done. Is hip hop just gonna be recycling itself like it is already doing? DO you have a pioneering idea you think will be the next big thing and you wanna keep it a secret?

I know this is an extremely open ended question, but I just see a whole lot of shutting down, shit talking, disagreement and frustration all the hip hop community. And not even just among us. I see other people who don't even listen to hip hop ranting and raving about the same things we are. Tired of seeing 50¢. Tired of Hip Hop commercials. Tired of the same retarded air force one songs on the radio.

So what's the next step ya'll

 

[Ash Holmz]

the world moves in cycles.. rap has its high points and lows...remeber when evryone though hip hop was gonna die out back in the earlyninties?Old school rap was about juyst havin fun. Then,nas, kast, and wu came wit some knowlegde. then jay and big took it to flossing.. pac,dmx, took it to beef.. lox,beans,and 50 took it to husltin..my point is theres always somewhere else to go with rap...people rymhe about life and life wont stop unless the world gets blown up(which could easily happen the way were warrin)..through the history of rap there have been many times where it seemed like there was nowhere left to go but someone always comes up with a new way to freak it.

 

[Ominous]

I am sorry for the direct link Fade....but I gotta show people why I have to stay away from <A HREF="http://forums.undergroundhiphop.com/readpost.asp?Forum=GenDiscussion&Whichpage=1&QuestionID=734855">UGHH.</A>

 

[Shonsteez]

yo thats some real shit Holmzini is speakin'........I ll have a comment of my own after im sober,,,............gherrryeahhhhhh

 

[T-Dash]

Holmzini got it exactly right. We've been through old school, to gangsta, to floss, to grime, to battle (courtesy of Eminem, Cannibus, etc) and now we seem to be in some kinda party cycle where a majority of artists want a club smash. But there will be some new form waiting to jump out at us and get us all thinking, damn thats dope. We in the UK are bringing good hiphop out, as are a lot of other countries so with artists like Mystro (UK), Sian Supa Crew (France) and Outlandish (Denmark) doing their own thing, its more than likely that new ideas and styles will come through and a new cycle can start.

 

[afriquedeluxe]

yeh t-dash i agree but people like phi-life cypher who r mo talented shud b gettin mo recognition, i mean it aint fair dat blazin squad can rip off a bone thug classic , spoil it n b number 1 in da uk!!!!!

back 2 da topic, me am tired of music where every1 is showin off dey rims, chain, hoes n stuff, dis is wat causes envy n ultimately beef.
i aint sure wat da nxt thing in hiphop will b, but i hope its me dat introduces it, lol .......

 

[Fade]

I agree, rap is going in cycles, it just so happens that right now everything's being RE-cycled. LOL. Everyone always says that eventually someone will come along and take it to the next level with some new shit, and I think that will happen but it's still going to be a while from now. The major difference between today's scene and that from 10 years ago is the record labels are extremely money hungry.

Now that rap is so popular, they're doing everything they can to snatch up "hot" artists and push their album in our faces so they can make money. Hopefully all of that will backfire on these labels one day and then the REAL artists will once again emerge, even though they won't be going platinum, etc...

Ominous, notice the difference between the replies here, and those on ughh? Here, everyone's got a good response and they're feeling the topic, over there, it's all stupid little negative attitudes! LOL, I check that site once in a while but I don't miss it at all.

 

[God]

Ominous:

There are several different levels of analysing this situation. It comes from a creative standpoint, as well as a business standpoint. Looking at these two subjects can really open a further discussion regarding the stance of hip-hop music today.

Creativity
From personal experience, I do not believe that there aren't creative people out there willing to contribute to a revolution in the hip-hop scene. With the underground movement spreading, fueled by the internet and by a greater disgust of the mainstream, underground artists in hip-hop are clearly marking a niche territory. However, this is not the underlying problem to why hip-hop has not changed.

The problem is that when anything completely different is introduced to hip-hop audiences, and is truly distinctive, most of the time, that "sound" is not appreciated. Unless, of course, a big name artist, or major producer agrees to backing a song, which thereby relegates the mass public into believing that there is credibility to the new sound of the track. Noreaga did this to the Neptunes in 1999, and Timbaland was able to introduce his new sound in the mid-nineties via several big named artists who wanted something fresh from the previous "sounds" dominating the scene at that time.

Though some may argue, I've heard Timbaland's style years before he became popular, in the albums of a lot of UK Electronic Artists. For example, his avant-garde stutter programming (like on Missy Elliot's first album, and Jay-Z's "N*gga What?") were being done in Europe years before. His acid bass lines in Aaliyah's "Try Again" which was touted as revolutionary, is another such example of him borrowing from European electronic music. His Arabic sounds on Tweet's album, was taking a big part in clubs in Europe years before he ever used it.

Anyway, as Afriquedeluxe implied in his post on "Grindin' " produced by the Neptunes, there is a tendency for anything that is mass-marketed to give a producer instant credibility. The public is simply a herd in many instances.

So, to bring my point across, even if you do bring something fresh and new, many claim to say it's not "hip-hop," and the negative reinforcement will dissuade many people from being avant-garde and pushing forward. Ultimately, they get sucked in with the mass of producers all doing the same thing. The concept is to be creative and also strong-willed as to not let individuals dissuade you from doing the type of musical production you enjoy?

But what if you want to get paid???

Business

The need for profit and maximisation of cost and benefits has created a cash-strapped major label recording industry that has an want for the "hits." The specificity of certain music at certain times show many of these businesses the benefits of not shaking up the musical mainstream but catering to the public's needs at a specific moment. That is why many songs sound alike and have the same formula. This gives a greater probability for a company to have a return on their investment if a song is mainstream enough to guarantee some form of "hit" status. It is extremely costly to take risks in the entertainment industry, due to corporate pressure on return on a capital investment.

So, many producers who want to make money find themselves not catering to their wants in an avant-garde fashion, but will play by the rules and create songs that sound like others in order to get the bills paid because record companies want certain types of songs from these producers. Obviously I'm not talking about underground artists, but the mainstream. The business angles are a bit more complex than what I've laid out (if you want me to, and I have time, I can discuss that further.) There is an intense focus on market analysing and catering to a common denominator rather than exhibiting anything truly different and new. If it is different and new (from perception) it still follows a rule of catering to the common denominator: this is evident in 50 Cent's recent success. However, I remember 50 Cent when his name was "2Pac" and he rapped better, or when 50 Cent was a group called "N.W.A." and they had more thought provoking lyrics (in some instances) than 50 Cent has at the current time. 50 Cent's image and persona has been applied many times in the past, and his angry bad-boy image transcends into rock and other forms of music which were once considered as new and fresh as hip-hop is now.

There are many people all shooting for being the next Dre and Timbaland, or whoever can shake things up. Remember, there is only one Dre, one Tim, one Neptunes, and the times when they affected rap music are far between. Producers see the odds stacked against them, and will cater to creating a mainstream hit at the current moment, rather than changing the game. I can count the people who've changed rap music in the last decade on one hand. A lot of producers look at that and wonder if they can beat the odds. Usually, they can not.

Creativity and business are hard to compromise.

Sincerely,
God

 

[J-UK]

I think soon people will start gettin bored of rubbish lyricists and boring beats and the good artists will get the recognition that they deserve. This is probably just wishful thinking though! Here in the UK there are a lot of artists bringing out good music but on mainly independant labels because big labels don't want to invest in something that is risky. I see that being the way that Hip Hop goes in the UK for a long time and when one rapper blows up lots more will.

 

[Copenhagen]

Originally posted by God

Though some may argue, I've heard Timbaland's style years before he became popular, in the albums of a lot of UK Electronic Artists. For example, his avant-garde stutter programming (like on Missy Elliot's first album, and Jay-Z's "N*gga What?") were being done in Europe years before. His acid bass lines in Aaliyah's "Try Again" which was touted as revolutionary, is another such example of him borrowing from European electronic music. His Arabic sounds on Tweet's album, was taking a big part in clubs in Europe years before he ever used it.

I guess listening to European stuff instead of what's making it in the states might give you a lead on what's next to come. Neptunes' sounds are also much like the sounds used in EuroDance and Club music in Europe.

...and T-Dash, have Outlandish made it to the UK now...? Which songs/singles? Guantanamo? Aicha? Peelo? Gritty? What do you think of them

 

[afriquedeluxe]

yo outlandish released there stuff here in da uk sum time bck, peeps was feelin em. i think thier l8est single is 'aisha'

 

[MadScientist]

Hip Hop will need to evolve with the times because if it doesn't it will fall apart. Think about it ....... what if you tried to come out with a album right now rapping like RUN DMC ....you would get laughed at .... the problem I have with hip hop right now is all these Burger King and McDonalds commercials making Hip Hop look corny ..... Fake ass beats with fake ass rappers rapping about french fries and special sauce ..... Before you know it you'll have Ludicris cereal, Missy Elliot Barbie dolls, Ja Rule cartoons, and Eminem Ice cream ...... thats when you can say goodbye to hip hop.

 

[T-Dash]

Yeah Copenhagen like afrique said...we've had them in the UK now for a while. I think that I first heard Guantanamo around winter-ish, can't be more specific. I first heard it on a pirate radio station, then about a week later I saw a video for it and I was real confused when they were watching cricket and stuff cause I figured they were American cause of how they sounded and because one of em was rappin' in Spanish (especially with America hosting a large bi-lingual population) and then I found out where they were all originally from and that they are now reppin' Denmark. I really like their stuff because they're a breath of fresh air mixing various languages and styles together to form good music. Their stuff reminds me a lil bit of Arrested Development and I'm def feeling their song Aicha. It came on the other day and I could just vibe with it. They're quite an exciting group and heads need to wake up and instead of complaining about the state of hiphop look elsewhere.

J-UK and Afrique can prolly bare witness to this, but the UK rap scene is still fairly small and there isn't a lot of money in it, but maybe thats the reason good music gets made. Money is one of the soul reasons for the current cycle we're in and honestly, I think the UK scene is gonna blow up soon. A couple of videos are making it onto the music channels, they're getting air play and we got a lot of talent worth listening to (the different dialects also give varience to each artist). So just check out a few artists like Braintax, Taskforce, Jehst, Terrafirma, Louis Slipperz, Moorish Delta 7, Rodney P and Skitz, the Nextmen, Outdaville, Lewis Parker, Yungun, Black Twang, Roots Manuva, Skinnyman, etc. We really got something special over here going on and its worth checking out!

 

[bigdmakintrax]

I gotta agree, hip hop has been overly commercialized...the music and the lifestyles.....it's great the whole world wants in, think about it......back in the original dayz....you might be lucky to find 1 producer in a neighborhood in like 20 or 30 miles....and they usually were in some urban area not a shack in the catskills with an MPC.....(the uniproducer)......and even then....the average cat could not afford an MPC or any other equipment or the studio time to spend just mixing down or recording 1 or 2 tracks a month was lucky.....b4 the evolution of good software.....and so there were sounds that were sort of in line or only a certain number of hot artists and producers........now some people are going to get mad but........there are way too many producers and artists alike in the game...........and that makes it all the harder to break, but being realistic the art of making hip hop music has been exposed worldwide so the basic tools are there for anyone that wants to make a hot beat on a computer...........and with the evolution of home studios....indie labels.....people have forgotten that how it was done before it will never be again...........but just like rock n Roll was a genre that could only be heard in the US at one time........it took the Beatles a world away to bring the flava worldwide appeal and rock n roll is not going anywhere, so I don't think hip hop is but the question really is will it remain true to form......

 

[God]

I guess listening to European stuff instead of what's making it in the states might give you a lead on what's next to come. Neptunes' sounds are also much like the sounds used in EuroDance and Club music in Europe.

We should recognise that the UK, Benelux, Germany, the rest of continental Europe, have different markets and somewhat different tastes that don't necessarily transcend boundaries. From what I've heard, I personally think from a sonic perspective, Europe is more accepting of different forms of music and sounds than the US is. A lot of dance music is taboo in the US, I believe, and other forms of electronic music are not widespread. It has to be watered down for the mainstream US market

Copenhagen, I agree with you, a lot of the Neptunes' stuff has been heard in European dance music before, and also Timbaland's sounds. The sad thing is, I don't think many people are willing to accept that account.

 

[T-Dash]

The question is...how many making the band tv shows are gonna end up bringing more of the same brand of rapper into the game? Cause as soon as my country invented the popstars show and put together a pop group, we then produced Pop Idol and then from that came Fame Accadamy and then more and more of these create a pop star shows. Now they're sweeping into America and I don't really think that MTV Making the Band (the rap version) is gonna be the last of em.

 

[Ominous]

I have a feeling that tides are gonna turn.

Hip Hop has grown so much that we influenced other countries and inspired their music. We are starting to latch on to a lot of other cultures outside of Hip Hop more and more and I think soon the major currents running throw our music will be started from outside of our usual circle. Not neccessarily from over seas but from just around the corner. It's already happenning.

Once we get tired of the same old beef and guns stuff, I think we will focus on other life matters and introduce them with the raw sound of the street but on topics other than what we have been. Some have already tried but with little success.

Deltron Zero

Prince Among Theives

Just to name a few I can think about but even when people are trying to be differentm they still pool themselves into the rest of us by tapping into some common thread. Deltron was still about MC Battling and Prince was an Audio epic. I am waiting for someone to drop a hip hop album focused on something outside the realm of hip hop. I ain't even waiting....I started up some basic beats for an album about the different relationships between men and women performed by myself and my boy Abyzmal. It's a Hip Hop album, but no reference to usual hip hop content. In other words...no competition, just content.

I can't think of a hip hop album with no competition factor put in it.


Here's a better example:

Think of all the hip hop songs you know about cars. But how many of them are really about cars? They are usually about how many cars they got and all the things on the car but none of them are about the respect for the craft of the automobile. Like a theme song about a particular vehicle because of its reputation and not because of its floss factor.

I think that's the kind of stuff that is gonna start dropping.

 

[afriquedeluxe]

yo dats wat am waitin 4, sum1 2 start flowin bout new tings....

 

[Cold Truth]

i personally think that the supposedly deep underground battle rhymes are just as shallow and played as the materialistic, thugged out and mysogonistic mainstream is...... with all the wordplay in the underground, people really arent saying much. which isnt to say that there is no talent there, its just that there are no artists balancing these things. kweli did a decent job with quality, but for everyone of them you have a bugged-the-heck-out album from common that pushes the envelope sonically with mixed results.

i think that it will be artists such as ourselves that will be that next generation, and we need to take notes from the great albums: what made them great? the TRUEST classics, which in my opinion expand borders and break barriers and remain true to the heart" of of hip hop (this is open to conjecture, as to what that heart is exactly) soo..... we have illmatic, the score, atliens, ready to die..... lets see.... these all encompased a clever look at society, they all had personal revelations, they all had their fun moments, they all had lyrical depth, simple yet genius production, and they were "real" in the truest sense of the word. not from a straeet perspective, from a hood perspective, but from a human perspective wich dealt with the issues surrounding them.

of course, there is always the argument of what is a classic to someone, and there is no need to make this another debate because this isnt the issue. these are just my examples.

none of this is to say that we should try to replicate these. i personally look at great albums from all sorts of genres.... or even greatest hits collections. if you dig rock, listen to sixteen stone by bush, check out otis reddings stuff, go cop george benson (before the mid 80's!!)check out creedance clearwater revival.... .... just listen to what made these great, and even if you arent in to these things, listen for what made them great to the people that like that type of music.

it really comes down to us, who are artists trying to find our way while fans at the same time. we see all the triumphs, and we are ruthless when we see flaws in even our most admired artists! we will be the crop of artists that people will be debating 10 years from now. this is where we go from here! i feel that our focus should always, ultimately be (i want preach and say that its God, but thats my thing...!) on making great music and not so much hip hop, because when we just focus on the music itself we open ourselves up to the types of innovations that these other guys have jumped on....

 

[Ominous]

^^^ I couldn't say it any better. I think a lot of the people in here will push Hip Hop to the next stage. And like you said, we need to TAKE NOTES from the great albums to be able to go there.

I can't see these cats spittin hate on producers out there doing big thangs now. Just cuz you don't like something doesn't mean its wack and if you can't at least acknowledge someone who is doing it big, you may never reach and exceed their level because you can't even see them in the first place. Be smart enough to see them for the professionals they are and if you think they are weak, then produce that track better than them...

I hear you on the underground end. Take the best and you can break them down to their least common denominator and still see them doing the same thing. More shit talking, better metaphors, new slang....it gets tired. But when will someone drop that shit that no one has done. You can see it here and there.

Blackalicious - A to G?

I think this is where hip hop will go. Abyzmal and I talk all the time about phat ideas that I think will happen soon. One idea was writing a 60 second rhyme to one beat and then someone else rhyming to another 60 second beat but then for the third verse have both the rhymes combine line after line and the beats layer themselves on top of each other to form a whole new beat to finish off the song. Sort of like some transformer shit. A + B = C. We'd still be rapping about hip hop shit but in a new way or maybe abuot something new all together like afriquedeluxe said...

I was also trying to make a 4 minute beat where the first 1:30 was beat A the the next 1:00 was a transition into the last 1:30 beat which is just the first beat in reverse. SO basically you could play the beat backwards or forwards and not be able to tell.

R A C E C A R

Of course doing all this while the shit still sounded phat. As soon as I learn how to drop a decent beat, then I can flip it on some sick ass reversal shit. Some unique techniques like this I think will be the next shit in hip hop....if it sounds good of course.