What you use to make beats is very important

[Delta Skeltah]

I guess I could of gotten filter plugins for my daw, but idk man. I fell hard in love with my samplers. Like, I look at my setup and I just want to make beats. You know what's dope tho, you can make music on any setup and make it dope.

 

[thedreampolice]

@Iron Keys

thinking is a more of a mathematical soluation.

I don’t agree at all. Using your imagination to envision the song is just as “soulful” as feeling it etc. that’s why I still think this is largely a semantics discussion.

 

[thedreampolice]

I guess I could of gotten filter plugins for my daw, but idk man. I fell hard in love with my samplers. Like, I look at my setup and I just want to make beats. You know what's dope tho, you can make music on any setup and make it dope.

You absolutely can filter on anything, I do it on my MPC and in my DAW. It really just depends on my goals for the track or the day.

 

[konceptG]

9th switched to an mpc 2500 and used it for years before he got Maschine fyi.

You can get about any sound out of any setup. Hardware doesn’t have some magic sound that computers don’t. Your sound should all come from your head. That being said even using the same exact sounds you will make different compositional decisions with hardware vs a DAW. Not better or worse. Just different. With hardware it feels more like you are using a musical instrument, flaws and all. So you just are in a different flow state or state of mind. Imho

Not really.

I'm in a group on FB for the SP1200, and every now and then a cat comes along and posts some late 80's/early 90's House joint he's done. After listening to them, I began to understand WHY certain Chicago House tracks sounded the way they did: Purely because of the SP1200's sampler and sequencer. Same for joints that used the 909 or 808, there was a "feel", if you will, that those crude drum sequencers had.

Same for early ghetto house tracks that were done with the DR660 or R70: The sounds plus the sequencer gave them the vibe they had.

The cats that post nothing but hip hop joints in that same group have me re-listening to a lot of joints from the 90's, pointing out when the SP1200 was used on them 'cause you can just hear it.

 

[konceptG]

As to the OP: I fully agree.

When I really got started, I worked through the limitations of the gear I had: a Yamaha MU5 (later a Roland DS330) and a 486 SX25 running Power Tracks Pro 3.0 because it allowed you to load samples into memory, but the limitation was you could only trigger one at a time. Working through those limitations I made an assload of beats, some of which had a lot of folks like "You made that on what???". When I started working in MI retail, I basically set up a small beatmaking rig in the showroom under the guise of doing it to better demo the equipment. At that time it was still PT Pro 3.0, but now tied to an Emu E64 sampler and Roland JV1080. My beats had the same feel as the old joints, but with a far superior sampler and rompler, they sounded more polished.

That changed when my Ensoniq rep came in and showed me the wonders of the ASR-X, which we had in the showroom but I largely ignored. Once I learned my way around it, my beats took another change in direction. I moved to a different city right after that and landed a job at a local MI shop there (thanks to the very same rep that happened to be in the store the day I came in for an interview) and set up shop with the ASR-X they had on display plus an MR Urban Dance Kit card. My beats sounded waaaaaaaaaaaay different and had what could only be described as a looser, Dilla-esque feel.

Every time I've switched gear, my beats sound different. The stuff I've posted here years ago was all done on FL Studio and has a fairly polished sound versus some of the stuff I've played with more recently on my SP-404A, which sounds different from the stuff I've done on my MPC500, both of which sounds different from the ideas I've gotten down using Battery under Sonar 8.

 

[thedreampolice]

Not really.

I'm in a group on FB for the SP1200, and every now and then a cat comes along and posts some late 80's/early 90's House joint he's done. After listening to them, I began to understand WHY certain Chicago House tracks sounded the way they did: Purely because of the SP1200's sampler and sequencer. Same for joints that used the 909 or 808, there was a "feel", if you will, that those crude drum sequencers had.

Same for early ghetto house tracks that were done with the DR660 or R70: The sounds plus the sequencer gave them the vibe they had.

The cats that post nothing but hip hop joints in that same group have me re-listening to a lot of joints from the 90's, pointing out when the SP1200 was used on them 'cause you can just hear it.

The sp 1200 is a very specific exception. As it can’t do 16bit only 12bit. That’s certainly going to color your sound. But even then your music should come from your imagination first.

 

[2GooD Productions]

The sp 1200 is a very specific exception. As it can’t do 16bit only 12bit. That’s certainly going to color your sound. But even then your music should come from your imagination first.

yeah I would agree, the sp1200 is a very specific sound. But you could still tell a Diamond D from a Pete Rock.
The Sp1200 has a very distinct sound of its own. Due to its limitations.

 

[Iron Keys]

This is part of also why i encourage music makers to get hands-on equipment such as midi controllers.

Getting a midi keyboard was a massive gamechanger for me. You don't face the issue of clicking stuff in then listening back, which sounds different to what you heard in your head, which then maybe distracts from the original plan. You also play more from 'feel' whichs is vital.

Getting drum pads also added a new and different dimension to how i make drums compared to on my keyboard. (Also melodies i make on my drum pads are very different to keyboard.)

Coming up with a melody on guitar vs on a piano or a flute is going to change the vibe of what you come up with, and not because of just the sound but the workflow.

This is why i encourage people to get away from just clicking stuff in, getting hands on really helps connect you to the music.

 

[thedreampolice]

yeah I would agree, the sp1200 is a very specific sound. But you could still tell a Diamond D from a Pete Rock.
The Sp1200 has a very distinct sound of its own. Due to its limitations.

Correct, because Pete Rock can sit down at any machine and it’s going to sound like Pete Rock.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Correct, because Pete Rock can sit down at any machine and it’s going to sound like Pete Rock.

well yeah, I suppose, there is that. lmao

 

[2GooD Productions]

This is part of also why i encourage music makers to get hands-on equipment such as midi controllers.

Getting a midi keyboard was a massive gamechanger for me. You don't face the issue of clicking stuff in then listening back, which sounds different to what you heard in your head, which then maybe distracts from the original plan. You also play more from 'feel' whichs is vital.

Getting drum pads also added a new and different dimension to how i make drums compared to on my keyboard. (Also melodies i make on my drum pads are very different to keyboard.)

Coming up with a melody on guitar vs on a piano or a flute is going to change the vibe of what you come up with, and not because of just the sound but the workflow.

This is why i encourage people to get away from just clicking stuff in, getting hands on really helps connect you to the music.

i pretty much play everything, I usually get it in one take, unless its one of those "as soon as you hit record you fuck it all up" moments.
My rhythm aint the best so I pretty much always have to go in on the drums and do them manually to tidy it up without quantizing them.
I might have to manually adjust a note here or there too. Like I said, rhythm and me dont belong in the same postcode. lol.

 

[konceptG]

The sp 1200 is a very specific exception. As it can’t do 16bit only 12bit. That’s certainly going to color your sound. But even then your music should come from your imagination first.

True, but the MPC 60/60 II are also 12 bit but they don't sound quite as crunchy as the sp1200 AND their sequencer has a different feel to it.

This is as much about the sound as it is about the sequencer's feel. The quantization and swing characteristics also play a part here.

 

[thedreampolice]

True, but the MPC 60/60 II are also 12 bit but they don't sound quite as crunchy as the sp1200 AND their sequencer has a different feel to it.

This is as much about the sound as it is about the sequencer's feel. The quantization and swing characteristics also play a part here.

Absolutely agree, so 12bit audio will absolutely color your sound. But the composition is still your own.

 

[Iron Keys]

i pretty much play everything, I usually get it in one take, unless its one of those "as soon as you hit record you fuck it all up" moments.
My rhythm aint the best so I pretty much always have to go in on the drums and do them manually to tidy it up without quantizing them.
I might have to manually adjust a note here or there too. Like I said, rhythm and me dont belong in the same postcode. lol.

Pretty identical here.

Except the fact when i first started making again a few years back my timing was hitting real accurate, lately my comp/daw/hardware is moving real odd with the latency so gets a bit tricky now.

But I'm going the Dr Dre route and replaying every part until the sound/feel is the best i can get, and capturing that.

The record button has evil mystical qualities.

 

[iDeaLoGiK]

Not really.

And even if so, words are important, they can actually change how you see things. Visually.

Someone "using their head" may approach it too technically and mechanically, formulaicly. As opposed to someone "using their soul" or heart or whatever.

Music is more about feeling than thinking.

Agreed, every beat I've ever made has started of with me hitting random notes in a semi-educated guess order until I find something I like. Thats more than likely a detriment in my case, but you gotta start somewhere I guess. Granted I know fuckall about what scales I'm playing, and even less with chords. 9 times out of 10 I'm stumbling through shit, I just know it when I hear it and what I want to hear next in line. The trick for me is finding that sound. I'm either 0% or I'm 100% and the beat is almost done in at most a few days. Almost every time I make something I'm happy with, the only way I can describe it is that the beat made itself, I just had to try to steer it in a direction that works.

Having said that, its pretty obvious to me that certain gear will affect your sound. It's also obvious that it's entirely due to workflow. Individual gear is good at what it's meant to do. Thats why you buy it. I wouldn't buy a keyboard if I just wanted to use it as a drum pad or to sample, and I wouldn't buy an MPC if I wanted to write the music myself, even though both can do what the other one does (persay). I think at the end of the day it still boils down to personal choice and what it is you want to make, and what's better situationally. To tie into the way the conversation was headed, its about the feeling. Neither are wrong, but both are right given the circumstances you use them.

As a footnote, i think that owning a keyboard is probably more versatile if that's all you can afford, mainly because you can map your keys to work as pads (and hell, a lot of em have pads on them anyway), but I won't say that you'd benefit from not buying the right gear for the job also.

 

[Iron Keys]

Agreed, every beat I've ever made has started of with me hitting random notes in a semi-educated guess order until I find something I like. Thats more than likely a detriment in my case, but you gotta start somewhere I guess. Granted I know fuckall about what scales I'm playing, and even less with chords. 9 times out of 10 I'm stumbling through shit, I just know it when I hear it and what I want to hear next in line. The trick for me is finding that sound. I'm either 0% or I'm 100% and the beat is almost done in at most a few days. Almost every time I make something I'm happy with, the only way I can describe it is that the beat made itself, I just had to try to steer it in a direction that works.

Having said that, its pretty obvious to me that certain gear will affect your sound. It's also obvious that it's entirely due to workflow. Individual gear is good at what it's meant to do. Thats why you buy it. I wouldn't buy a keyboard if I just wanted to use it as a drum pad or to sample, and I wouldn't buy an MPC if I wanted to write the music myself, even though both can do what the other one does (persay). I think at the end of the day it still boils down to personal choice and what it is you want to make, and what's better situationally. To tie into the way the conversation was headed, its about the feeling. Neither are wrong, but both are right given the circumstances you use them.

As a footnote, i think that owning a keyboard is probably more versatile if that's all you can afford, mainly because you can map your keys to work as pads (and hell, a lot of em have pads on them anyway), but I won't say that you'd benefit from not buying the right gear for the job also.

I think also people could take the acquiring what you need approach too... like start off with what you have, then when you feel/find a need for something you're missing, add it.

I used to play my drums on keyboard, and that was fine. Until one time i tried playing a fast conga pattern... my key wasn't returning to normal position before being hit again so the note did not get recorded. It was at that point i felt the need for drum pads!

But also now, on drum pads i record my drums different to on keyboard to an extent. If i decide to attempt to play the majority of my drums in in one go, then it also gives a different vibe. And drumpads playing in your pattern at once is different to playing each hit in individually. I do both, but using the limits of one really gives a different vibe to my drum patterns.

I think even if someone gets a keyboard and just plays one note in just to get the rhythm for their melody in and then move the note pitches about after. You're able to play in the rhythm of melody as opposed to guessing the rhythm by clickin in. Clicking in becomes too much guess work of how what you're tryingto make will sound, can be not only a waste of time but also often ends up distracting you from how your idea was supposed to sound in the first place.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I think also people could take the acquiring what you need approach too... like start off with what you have, then when you feel/find a need for something you're missing, add it.

I used to play my drums on keyboard, and that was fine. Until one time i tried playing a fast conga pattern... my key wasn't returning to normal position before being hit again so the note did not get recorded. It was at that point i felt the need for drum pads!

But also now, on drum pads i record my drums different to on keyboard to an extent. If i decide to attempt to play the majority of my drums in in one go, then it also gives a different vibe. And drumpads playing in your pattern at once is different to playing each hit in individually. I do both, but using the limits of one really gives a different vibe to my drum patterns.

I think even if someone gets a keyboard and just plays one note in just to get the rhythm for their melody in and then move the note pitches about after. You're able to play in the rhythm of melody as opposed to guessing the rhythm by clickin in. Clicking in becomes too much guess work of how what you're tryingto make will sound, can be not only a waste of time but also often ends up distracting you from how your idea was supposed to sound in the first place.

Man, I havent clicked in a melody since the very early days. For the simple reason of timing like you say, its far easier to get the timing right by just playing it. Just playing everything creates a much faster workflow for me. Im all about that fast workflow and not getting bogged down by details until most of the track is laid out. I can make some mixing adjustments pretty quickly I have done it so many times now. For example, I might mix my drums early in the process with a quick routing, some sidechaining to the bass, bus compression etc.
I have fallen in love with the Alesis keyboard at the studio, it has good pads and nicely weighted keys, I want one.

 

[Kane the MOD]

I use my hands to make beats. Maschine MK2 & Midi Keyboard translate human to digital. I adjust the MIDI if needed but quantization has become a no no. Also I often play the rythm of an instrument and change up the notes afterwards.