What is "Real" Hip Hop?

[dacalion]

To old heads, real hip hop is Eric B & Rakim, Wu-Tang, Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, KRS-1 and so on...To the new heads, it's Lil Wayne, Drake, Wacka Flacka, Nikki Minaj and so on...total contrast.

Society says that Real Hip Hop has evolved, and it has, it has to evolve to stay relevant BUT is it possible that we could have taken a wrong turn somewhere? It would be nice if we had a hip hop GPS to guide us in the right direction BUT sadly, there's no such device. How do we justify the condition of todays hip hop?

Some will argue that hip hop is fine (usually the new generation), others will argue that hip hop sucks (usually old school cats). So how do you measure the success or failure of hip hop? Record sales? Trends? Market? All great rulers to measure by but all WRONG!

We are hip hop, we are the ones responsible for it's condition. When a label seeks trends, they go to a company that measures trends and they get advice on whats going to be the next BIG THING. The labels in return, focus on investing in that area. They don't give a shit whether it's good or bad for the genre, all they want is HUGE returns.

IMO, we accept trends way too easily, and we don't look at the possible consequences in the future. Hip Hop has and always will evolve, but we have to educate our youths so when we pass the torch, they will take it and make better decisions with whatever direction they go. Somewhere in the past "WE" dropped the ball, we passed the torch over to a generation that wasn't ready to lead the evolution of hip hop and now we're seeing the effects of it's direction.

Your Thoughts?

 

[slik da relic]

Hip Hop is Hardware! and i will never let some of mine go... PERIOD!

now go tell ur lil Reason, and FL Studio friends that! ffft:

da relic

 

[Fade]

It's because of today's society.

Everything today from entertainment to our lifestyles all revolves around money. Even when old school artists made money off of rap music back then, it wasn't crazy amounts, and even it were, they weren't obsessed with buying iced-out jewelry and a yacht. Instead they still lived modestly, which is the complete opposite today.

When they got into the rap game it was purely for the music. Today they get into it for the money but just happen to like the music.

Not to go off topic, but here's another question:

When was the last time an artist from today was more concerned with putting out good music vs. making a certain amount of money?

It's all about selling a certain amount of units and making millions, rather than just putting out good music.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I think to be honest the artform is just a reflection of the society we live in now. Society has become dumbed down so its only natural the artform has too. Dumbed down music for dumbed down people. Along with that racial prejudices have changed a lot since the 80's/90's, I mean a black president would have been unthinkable back then.
The fight the power mentality of Public enemy, or the edutainment of KRS 1 is just irrelivent to the kids of today. Personally I think the edutainment is more relevent than ever, but the kids dont want to be preached to. We are in a society where the kids know best with no respect for their elders, its even an offence for a parent to smack their child here. When I was a kid a person on the street could give you a slap if your were being disrespectful, now not even a parent can do it without fear of prosecution. The guide of discipline was taken out of our hands so that the mummy state could fill in for us while we were out working hard just to be able to afford the bills. Family relationships have generally been on the decline since the baby booming 80's. Less people getting married, more single parent families, it makes it very hard to actually impose rules and discipline and guidance on kids. The positive role models have been taken away and replaced with idiots and liars portraying a negative and fake materialistic image. This has been done by design, I have read that hip hop was built up as a popular music along with rock music for that reason alone. To hook us in, then steer us onto a negative path. If I can find the links I will post them. Its some MK Ultra bullshit, mass control type deal. I will look for the stuff to back up my claim as it does sound very far fetched but its really not. The problem with bringing back an older positive message in hip hop is that the people that appreciate it are of a demographic that doesnt generally spend a lot of money on music. The younger more ignorant kids are the ones that spend money on music, the smart kids just download it for free. Much has changed since the good ole days, i think its irreversible, the ball was dropped on the freeway, you cant stop and pick it up, we dropped it miles back and any hope of finding the ball is lost. And out ability to be there as role models is ever slowly being taken out of our hands by greatly increasing tax bills to pay for the extortionate bank bailouts. Society has been duped, we are already in the cage and the door is locked. Say hello to the NWO. Its not something thats coming, we are already in it. We just havent realised yet.

 

[Pug]

I've accepted that real hip-hop is whatever the listener thinks it is. I grew up in the 1980's, so naturally I followed the musical stream at the time and listened to what was the hottest tracks out at the time. Who knows, maybe if I grew up in the mid 90's, things would be different.

Music reflects the time, environment and every other factor you can add.

Take for instance the song "Oh Carolina" which everyone knows as Shaggy's massive tune back in the day.




But step back even further and you have the original tune by the Folkes Brothers.



Huge difference.

Real hip-hop is here, it is transforming, some of it is good, some is bad, just like in other eras. There was a lot of shitty hip-hop in the 80's and 90's, as in other times.

 

[skidflow]

Rap - Lies = Hip Hop

 

[Quality]

Well Dac, you know what it is, just cause some kids call their pop music "hip hop" doesn't mean a damn thing, its just their way of telling their parents "I listen to rap/hiphop."

But to break it down anyways, hip hop is the expression of self in the forms of

Breakdancing
Graffiti
Rap
DJing

Its all labels tho really.. people who say "real hip hop" are talking about a real expression of self without some label telling them I need a booty song or I won't put food on your plate.. or in this case a sirloin steak on your plate..

Peeps who say "real" hip hop are just trying differentiate themselves from someone who rhymes over those pop beats strictly for the popularity contest and money=commercialized.

Atleast in my mind.. but I throw all labels out the window, its all MUSIC in the end.. just either good music or shitty music.

 

[dacalion]

Yeah really good points...

@ Fades question...

When was the last time an artist from today was more concerned with putting out good music vs. making a certain amount of money?

There are a very small few, todays economy has really extended the gap between "living like a rock star" where as at one time you could "look" the role. That may have been by design or maybe not, In any case, the average person can't afford to push a Lamb or Ferrari. The most successful Hip Hop Artist today, aren't doing it only on music, they've got their clothing lines, ownership's in the NBA, NFL and so on...in turn, they aren't hungry anymore and that trickles down to their music which isn't a passion anymore, it's more like an obligation to meet a contract.

Eventhough I luv making music, I couldn't imagine being Jay Z (with all those millions of dollars) and having to take time to go down to a studio and deal with all the BS involved with labels and the music industry in general...plus, try to run a successful clothing line, plus co-own a NBA team. I'm sure he could easily say fuk it and have someone else handle it for him but then you're looking at someone stealing from you or mishandling your money and everybody knows...thats just not his style. It's almost like he has created a monster that only he can deal with.

You can't tell me that wouldn't effect your music. It's just impossible.

 

[Quality]

It's because of today's society.


When was the last time an artist from today was more concerned with putting out good music vs. making a certain amount of money?

Jay Dee aka J Dilla

Talk about a cat that was ALL about the music.. he wouldn't even show up to his Grammy nominations because he was banging in the basement..

Well, not exactly from today, but from todays post 2000 era..

 

[2GooD Productions]

Yeah really good points...

@ Fades question...

There are a very small few, todays economy has really extended the gap between "living like a rock star" where as at one time you could "look" the role. That may have been by design or maybe not, In any case, the average person can't afford to push a Lamb or Ferrari. The most successful Hip Hop Artist today, aren't doing it only on music, they've got their clothing lines, ownership's in the NBA, NFL and so on...in turn, they aren't hungry anymore and that trickles down to their music which isn't a passion anymore, it's more like an obligation to meet a contract.

Eventhough I luv making music, I couldn't imagine being Jay Z (with all those millions of dollars) and having to take time to go down to a studio and deal with all the BS involved with labels and the music industry in general...plus, try to run a successful clothing line, plus co-own a NBA team. I'm sure he could easily say fuk it and have someone else handle it for him but then you're looking at someone stealing from you or mishandling your money and everybody knows...thats just not his style. It's almost like he has created a monster that only he can deal with.

You can't tell me that wouldn't effect your music. It's just impossible.

I think thats a very good point, especially about the hunger, but then at the same time I read the Rosanne Barr article posted a while back. And its true that fame is like a drug, especially once you have it and you get the bookings at exclusive resaurants at the drop of a hat, and you get special treatment wherever you go, you have to stay in the public spotlight to maintain that sort of power, as soon as you stop being "a" list and drop to "b" or "c" list then the perks of fame start to stop, thats what keeps people trying to cling to their 15 mins of fame. Jay Z is a different story from 99% of all the rappers, I think only Dre, eminem and 50 cent come anywhere near his financial success, but still not that close. Jay Z is the exception to the norm. But still if the hunger for the limelight wasnt in Jay Z he wouldnt be making new records, he would retire and live a quiet life.

 

[2GooD Productions]

2003 - Jay Dee aka J Dilla - Donuts


Talk about a cat that was ALL about the music.. he wouldn't even show up to his Grammy nominations because he was banging in the basement..

And that was 8 years ago.....
A lot has changed in the last 5.

 

[2GooD Productions]

What "Real Hip Hop" is NOT!!

A 16 year old middle class kid living in the suburbs with his parents rhyming about the street life, slanging the yayo, pimping the bitches while cruising in his maybach.

What "Real Hip Hop" is!!

Rhyming about struggling to make ends meet by having to rob people and sell drugs just to put food on the table, because where you live is so fucked up, its the real hustle on the street, and hardknock life.

Its also putting a story into a metaphor, telling a story with a very distinct moral at the end of the story...Like live by the gun die by the gun.(Check Kool G Rap - Brother on the Run as an example) or (Slick Rick - Childrens Story) or (Gangstarr - Just To Get a Rep). The overall message is that you have to avoid that shit, its not something to aspire to, but something to try and avoid. Only the dumb see that as glamorisation and aspire to it, even tho the message is that it leads in tragedy in the end.

What "Real Hip Hop" is NOT!!

Hiring a lambo for the video shoot, along with loads of fake or borrowed jewellery, claiming its yours all throughout the video, only to send it back once the shoot is over.

What "Real Hip Hop" is!!

Gritty grimy videos showing life on the streets for what it is, derelict buildings, graffiti, run down societies struggling to make a life in harsh surroundings.

What "Real Hip Hop" is NOT!!

Going to the club throwing money around "making it rain" (do that shit in the hood and you will get your arse robbed very quick)

What "Real Hip Hop" is!!

Going to the club, having a good time, shaking some booty with some booty and generally having fun.




Generally you dont go waving wealth in the faces of those that really do struggle for survival, because those same people will put you in a coffin for disrespectfully flashing shit under their nose, and they will take it from you.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Well, Ive never heard anyone refer to waka flocka as real hiphop. I work with kids 8-18. lil wayne drake and minaj are lyrical. Not complex, but they use punchlines and metaphors. Yes they blurr the lines of rap and any other genre but they are the voice of the generation.

I say, this is the internet age. Why havent anyone thats real hiphop learned how to take advantage of the level playing field and claim their fans? BEcause "real" is a opinion, and a testiment of peoples individual realities. Just like everyone has a different reality, everyone thinks different things are real.

If we use the word real, we have to remember, Hip Hop wasnt real music. Soul/funk/rock was real music, hip hop was stealing that and talking over it. And yet here we are, the strongest genre there is.

The new artists may not be the best, but they are all we have. Most of the last generation is done or lost their spark (Which is natural).
The other thing is, the differentiation between music and the culture. The quality of music sucks, its hard to feel anything (you also have to take into account, what generation wants to follow their elders? they want to pave their own way. Its a process, we are evolving). But the dancing has gone world wide, graffiti has exploded EVERYWHERE, fashion has been lost because of the fad it was (Which I argue was the cause of hiphop living in a world of fads now)

Theres so much more and I havent even read the whole thread yet, but the answer to your question, Dac, is there is no one person that can say what Hip Hop is. The pioneers are silent and the 90's pioneers dont agree on one definition. Its a feeling. and we have yet to see the golden era of hiphop (which will be real to some and fake to others, as every generation has been called).

 

[skidflow]

To really have a sense of what real hip hop is I would think you would have to be a so called "pioneer" or from around that era, and has listened to the evolution of hip hop, and has monitored the direction the music taken thruout history.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

IMO, we accept trends way too easily, and we don't look at the possible consequences in the future. Hip Hop has and always will evolve, but we have to educate our youths so when we pass the torch, they will take it and make better decisions with whatever direction they go. Somewhere in the past "WE" dropped the ball, we passed the torch over to a generation that wasn't ready to lead the evolution of hip hop and now we're seeing the effects of it's direction.

Yes agreed. We need to be hands on with the next generation or they wont respect you, and you wont be relevant to them. We must nurture. Fore fathers are still fathers and that dynamic is missing which I spoke about before

It's because of today's society.

Yes but todays society learned and was influenced by yesterday's

I've accepted that real hip-hop is whatever the listener thinks it is. I grew up in the 1980's, so naturally I followed the musical stream at the time and listened to what was the hottest tracks out at the time. Who knows, maybe if I grew up in the mid 90's, things would be different.

Music reflects the time, environment and every other factor you can add.
Huge difference.

Real hip-hop is here, it is transforming, some of it is good, some is bad, just like in other eras. There was a lot of shitty hip-hop in the 80's and 90's, as in other times.

exactly

Rap - Lies = Hip Hop

Generalized but Is a good indicator!

 

[dacalion]

To really have a sense of what real hip hop is I would think you would have to be a so called "pioneer" or from around that era, and has listened to the evolution of hip hop, and has monitored the direction the music taken thruout history.

Can't be put any better than that.

 

[Sucio]

What "Real Hip Hop" is!!

Gritty grimy videos showing life on the streets for what it is, derelict buildings, graffiti, run down societies struggling to make a life in harsh surroundings.

Question...Would Jay-Z be considered real hip-hop?

What about Mac Miller...? I'm actually impressed by the kid's skills.

Labels want him to be that real hip-pop......

Would he sell if he rapped like this? Even better......if he did....how successful would he be as an artist?

 

[DJ Excellence]

Let's stop lamenting and bring "real hip hop" back !

 

[slik da relic]

sigh... Mac Miller.. oh yea, i remember him:



when keepin it real "Hip Hop", might go wrong.



da relic

 

[UNORTHODOX]

sigh... Mac Miller.. oh yea, i remember him:

YouTube - ‪Mac Miller confronted about stolen beat and runs away at S.O.B.s NYC (9/8/10)‬‏

when keepin it real "Hip Hop", might go wrong.

YouTube - ‪That Kid Era - Whack Miller (Mac Miller Diss)‬‏

da relic

Most diss tracks have been wack the last few years, dissing people at all has been a wack thing to do actually (lately)... but that was cool haha! Dude can legit rap though, and I respect it/him for that track.