War Report!

[Architect]

What's going on illmuzik family? A lot is happening in the world today, I would love to talk about music, but I can't help thinking about the current situation in Iraq in particular.

Is there anything that we can do to help stop the war now?
Do you think it should be stopped?
Do you believe because Saddam Hussein was captured that we have won the war?
What about Osama Bin Laden, will capturing him put an end to terrorism?
Is the actions of the US Government going to war making it unsafe for american citizens to travel aboard to certain countrys?
What's next, for us as a country, how safe can we really be with so many unknown threats?
And last but not least what is homeland security really doing to protect us?

Peeps I didn't mean to ask too many questions, but basically I have a lot of issues with the whole Iraq war, how do you guys feel about it? Sorry I didn't mean to post as if it was a Social Studies exam LOL. I just want to bump heads with those who may be interested in these kinds of issues.

 

[afriquedeluxe]

man i just try to keep my mind of stuff like that, cuz war is gona be there forever, it will never go away.

 

[Architect]

I feel ya Afrique. It's really getting to the point where no matter how long the US stays in Iraq we may never really accomplish all of our goals! Soldiers are dying everyday even though the Iraq government doesn't have any power. We have many soldiers over there and now they are saying that we may need more. What does that mean if we don't have more available, DRAFT TIME! I'll never go to war hell no, not for this.

 

[afriquedeluxe]

its really sad, i keep hearin bout soldiers being killed. and i dont really believe sadam was runnin that country alone. his accomplices are still there.

 

[tricky spinz]

Dont even get me started! This whole presidency is bogus. Anyway, the war is stupid. Yay, we stopped Saddam. And yea, he was really fucking evil, but has the country really changed for the better? If all those dead soldiers could look back on whats been accomplished through this war, do you think they'd feel satisfied? i dont. and this whole War on Terrorism is so dumb. there are prisoners being held for this war on terrorism, and they wont be released until the war is over.....HOW CAN A WAR ON AN INANIMATE THING EVER END?!?!?!?! how do you win a war on terrorism??? kill everyone?? its the stupidest fucking concept ever created. a war.....on a NOUN. here, lets just attack the word "BAD" next time. so now everything that can be counted as bad, will now have the shit bombed out of it. fucking dumb man. i hate this presidency.

 

[Cold Truth]

you know, a lot of people talk about how much they hate the war on terroism, the presiedent, etc., ....

but if you were a survivor of 9/11, i guarantee you that you would be behind that initiative AND the president 100% for doing it. as far as ridding saddam hussien, we are withdrawing and handing off power in June (i believe, could be wrong....). of course the iraqi's hate us. you think they actually liked saddam? trust me, they are FAR better off without him.

an inanimate thing? its a noun, you're right..... but blowing up that train in spain and the world trade center was a verb... you talk to those families and tell THEM that terroism is an innanimate object. everyone wants to call bush "the real terrorist", and somehow those same people dont seem to be bothered when some group decides its their 'duty" to kill people in mass quantities, or when saddam hussein's fedayeen fighters decide to use murder, torture, rape, etc., to get people to join them during the initial phase of the war, when his sons would pick out women at random, and many DOCUMENTED times at weddings where they would take the bride and rape her..... the gassing of the kurds, i mean there is so much more that i dont even know about...... and everyone somehow thinks bush is wrong for wanting to go after them for it...

can someone please explain this logic?

i am NOT saying that bush is a saint, that he doesnt have his faults, but- HELLO- check politics at large. someone is ALWAYS angry and unhappy with someones policies, and anyone who holds any political office is under the same scrutiny. i dont vote, becasue in the end they are all on the same side in my eyes! money controls everything, and evryone talks about how the u.s invaded iraq for the oil, blah, blah, blah...

and with gas jumping to $2.15 a gallon, IT SURE HAS BENIFITTED US, HASNT IT????? i fail to see the benifits there, althoug, interestingly enough, no one flinched when the iraqi troops were ORDERED to BURN the oil..... which is a LIMITED natural resource, and is also what wil lbe the driving fincial force in the rebuilding of iraq. people act like it was supposed to be peace overnight or something. these things are always ugly. ALWAYS. war isntwam-bam-thank-you-mam, you know. things dont get fixed in a year...

i have plenty more to say, but i wll save that for later, as i am certain tis wil generate a lot of responses....

 

[N.A.R.]

Thats tough

Actually I was like a couple blocks away when it happened.....I worked for a phone company which is close.....War sux period.....The thing that scares me is that wer'ee involved in war with a president that we don't actually know should b our president....I think he cheated so with that being said....His father tried to bring down Sad, but couldn't.....So now we have this guy.....Don't u get it....He's never going to be in danger....we r......If a building blows...wer'e in it....If a plane crashes we go not him....Wer'e almost like sitting ducks....while they plot and scheme and tell us bits and pieces......War is lame duke....I can't ever being on an alert system til now......We as americans could do more 2....I rarely ever hear people say Im proud to b american anymore......This war wer'e in is only making people hae us more.......Because we have our cake and eat it 2......War will only lead to more antimosity down the line.....and we will be the sitting ducks dying because of it.....I hope I can sell a beat and get enuff money to buy an Air Force 1....Plane not sneaker

 

[Architect]

Let me remind everyone who's interested check out the national security advisor speaking in front of the 911 committee Thursday 4-8-04 starting at 9am eastern time I believe. It shoud be on a lot of radio and TV stations.

I think there is more than meets the eye with this war, now I'm not going to blast on George W Bush because that's easy to do, but let's not forgot the WHOLE ENTIRE PURPOSE OF THIS WAR! What was it again, disarm Iraq which supposedly had WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

Where are the weapons? Never found? Okay so why are we (US) still there occupying their country? Why are we sacrificing soldiers for this unfounded cause? What are we really going to accomplish? Do you really believe that if we supposedly FREE IRAQ that the world will be a better place. What about the freakin US! There are homeless people sleeping outside right across from the white house, there are people killing each other left and right. They want to free somebody they really need to start in their hometown. I live right here in the nations capital so don't get me started about all the money that is wasted when american citizens over here could really use it.

 

[tricky spinz]

wings, i respect your opinion. but do you think all these American deaths are worth it? all the civilian deaths from "colateral damage?" and yes, the terrorists are evil. they believe it is their duty to kill as many americans as possible. and yea, saddam was a horrible man. he did unspeakable things and so did other members of the iraqi government/military. but does that mean we should be allowed to blindly attack people? does that justify our becoming a world police man?

and with the supposed nukes, what about them? they just up and disappear? and all that uranium they purchased from africa, what happened to that? and all the other lies and information which have come from such reliable sources. they all just happen to be refuted a few months later after we've taken direct action as an immediate result of that intelligence.

pulling out in june eh? well, we'll see how that goes.

and yea, those are verbs, but holding political prisoners for as long as we attack terrorism? hmm, i'm sure that makes sense. you stay in jail, until the world is perfect. they oughta be out any day now! but terrorism happens all the time. what gives US the right to go on a rampage in the middle east? just cuz we're the big bad US? we're strong as fuck so we can do whatever we want?

and oil, yea, prices havent gone down. but are you gonna tell me we havent gotten any oil out of this?! just because the corporations keep it stocked instead of releasing it so that they can continue to fill their pockets, your gonna tell me that Bush isnt protecting an economic investment over there in oil? and that oil isnt a major reason we are fighting this whole damn thing? was it all for those nukes that magically vanished?

i dont hate bush cuz he went to war. i hate him because wheres his reasons. i thought it was nukes. those nukes which dont exist. and i love how WE sold Saddam the weapons to kill the Iranians and then funded the Iranians to kill the Iraqi's.... AT THE SAME TIME! isnt it great being seperated by a whole ocean! we can dick around as much as we want overseas!!!!


and again, politicians, no ones perfect. but does that mean that we should put up with Bush and his flaws, just because he's human? he's the freakin president! he really isnt qualified to run this country. he cheated his way into Yale cuz daddy's a big man. dont you think he could at least make an effort to be literate? do you think his talking like an idiot makes us look good???? if nothing else, we should be able to demand a standard of intelligence lacking in Mr. Bush. must we suffer the greater of the evils just because no ones perfect?

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Truth: good points regarding the perspective of those who may have been a victim of terrorism.

NAR: good point....i dont see Bush going to war.

Architect: good point about starting to free homeland first.

----------------------------

its pretty hard for us normal peeps to bring about change in this war situation concidering that the only information we get about it is from the media. we all know the media lies. for all we know, terrorists could be in on the whole operation with america so that america has an excuse to gain power over countries. its a small chance but im just trying to get cats to think. as much as you think you know about the situation, its probably a very very small amount of whats involved on a whole. the most importants facts are the ones your not told.

anyway, i think this is a holy war. but from Bush's point of view, money plays a big role too. i think the cause of this whole war/terrorism thing is that cunts cant agree to disagree. the terrorists say "my god says that if i kill you, i will go to heaven." so, thinking that there is no possiblilty that their god could be wrong, they go on a suicide mission. Bush says "your killing us, im going to kill you back." which to an extent is a reasonable response. but it seems bush is taking it much further and has many hidden/not so hidden adgendas.

but then again, how can they fight wars and say they are religeous. quite hypocritical and pathetic.

anyway this subject is a tough one. as i said its hard for me to be strongly opinionated on this one cos i know that i dont know enough about the matter and i dont think many citizens do.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Copenhagen]

We can all probably agree that getting rid of Saddam is a good thing, but Iraq is Iraq, and not the US, so the US have no right to play police there. At least not with the concent of the rest of the world.
Also, the reasons to go to war have not been proven, actually they have only been proven to be incorrect. A lot of people in high places with a high security level seemed to know this, yet the US administration claim they didn't. That's bullshit. They lied to achieve their goals.
Appearently, the Bush family owed oil fields in Kuwait before the Gulf war, and sold them after the war to far out relatives of Osama Bin Laden.
Dick Cheney is head of the association of corporations who deal with oil in the middle east, thereby also Iraq (which is the 2nd largest in regards to oil in the middle east). Oil, which the US is very dependent on, especially as their usage of oil has become selfishly big.
Oh, and how come US corporations have dealt with Iraq in regards to oil, when the US had placed an embargo on Iraq? Funny that the embargo incl. everything but oil...
So you don't think the war had anything to do with oil?
Also, there's Israel. USA's only real friend in the middle east, who have a big powerful lobby in Washington.
Some believe that that was the reason to go to war, to protect Israel. Iraq should have made threats against Israel, and the the missiles they had should really only have had the capabillities of reaching Israel.

Anyway, I could go on for hours. I was/am personally all for a change in Iraq and the middle east, and getting rid of Saddam...I am just trying to point out that the reasons as to why it went down are probably different from the reasons that was given, and I do not entirely agree with the way that the US goes about handling their business in the middle east.

Now, what about some music...this is getting too serious

 

[1d3nt1tY]

I'm not tryin to spark controversy, got old school game just like jerome persey, even if it hurts me, I'ma get what I can get and leave in a hurree

but on the real:

The afghanistan campaign lasted long enough to make hella homeless people starve even worse.

I think that war on terrorism was born in the mind of our current pres simply to go to war with Iraq and drive the oil prices sky high... Bush has been linked to the oil industries, proven... his campaign was paid for by the oil industry, and if you think I'm lyin, look it up on google.

It is also being proven that Iraq was on Bush's top to do list BEFORE 9-11 happened. HMMMM


But I'ma stop yappin and let these haters marinate a bit :no:

 

[boneyboys]

I guess I've got quite a lot to say about this and I don't wanna be going on about it but the whole WMD argument is a joke, there were none and anyway America owns enough WMD to blow the hell out of a fair bit of the world so I'm going to be charitable here and say that the war was right, if only to get rid of a tyrant. My problem with this though is if America and Britain are going after tyrants - a sort of human rights crusade if you will, why start in Iraq, why not with Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe or off to Sudan where hundreds of thousands have been killed in a matter of months. War on terror my arse, this is a war without reason. And don't even get me started on guantanamo bay...

 

[Cold Truth]

Copenhagen thank you for providing valid points as to the actual problems of the war.

i just dont see the point in saying "i hate bush he isnt fighting this war this whole thing sucks why are we even there..." and having no actual insight to the situation; hating for hating's sake. i didnt know about the family owning the oil there...

i for one am all for taking up arms for Israel, however. it seems the whole world wants them wiped out (wonder why...)... so i support defending them 100% (besides, our boy wings is there... we CANT lose him!)

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

TRICKY - "wings, i respect your opinion. but do you think all these American deaths are worth it?" :spaz: :dead:

HELLO! I HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING... I'M NOT GUILTY! :lol:

 

[1d3nt1tY]

w8 a sec, the whole reason for Israel being persecuted is mainly because of the whole "I'm better than you" attitude that they exude so freely. Ariel Sharon handles shit like a thug, not a PM. Let's blow up a house with some innocent peeps in it because they are family to a terrorist. Men women and children, not to mention taking bribes and extortion... I think that he is probably one of the biggest reason for the terrorist threat... an opressed people will do just about anything.

Nobody's hatin for hate's sake, goto http://www.moveon.org/front/ and read a lil.

Sadam was a tyrant, true, his sons were bad bad men, true, but anyone who is put in office there when we evacuate is going to be just as corrupt on some level or another. The reason why? It'll be a human in their office, and they will have the constitution and the love of money to fuel the fire, and don't expect better oil prices anytime soon... british petroleum is making out like a bandit. After all, it was the "special interest" money that bought the election for Bush. Don't you remmeber that Al Gore was elected president of the united states, Bush called him and congratulated him, then they did a last minute recount in Florida (Bush's brother is the gov there... HMMM) and then Bush called Al and retracted his congrats.


That soundz fishy to me...

Isn't it kinda wierd that only the Bush family want to invade other countries, remove leaders, and put new ones in place? That seems kinda.... "special interest" to me.



But of course, AS ALWAYS, this is just my OPINION. Don't start hurtlin shit at me for my VIEWS and OPINION.


Thanks

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

while not saying anything in favour of ariel sharon (whose way to peace is indeed :crazy: ), you can't really rely on the media and its reports. sharon ain't no thug, i'm sorry to burst your bubble.
in fact, he's failry moderate when being compared to other politicians \ voices in israel.
(if you haven't known: i'm a jewish. i'm an israeli. i live in israel. and i'm a soldier in the israeli army).
i'm not saying that bombing a house full of innocent children\men\women is the ultimate solution. HELL NO! who shall know better than me? (i belong to the very few rational people in israel, who TOTALLY OPPOSE the current way israel handles things). YET SOMETIMES, that is the only way to prevent a forthcoming terrorist attack. and sadly enough that's the way it is.
why do you tend to blame israel and sharon? although, many things are wrong, LET US NOT FORGET THE OTHER SIDE (THE PALESTINIAN). BLOWING YOURSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF A CROWDED STREET IS NOT EXACTLY A HUMANE ACTION, INNIT?

there is no BLACK & WHITE, and there is no easy solution.
it's always easy to blame, but it's not as easy to think deeply and conclude.

Truth, thanks for the support ("besides, our boy wings is there... we CANT lose him!") :thumb:

it really does seem as if the whole world is against israel. (let it be known that i'm not exactly a typical israeli and i would have left israel if i had the chance to do so).

Peace,
Wings

 

[Architect]

I don't support the fight between Israel and the Palestinians it's been way too bloody on both sides. And fighting fire with fire will not indeed resolve anything, the palestinians will not give up, your dealing with people that will attach a freakin bomb to the body and blow themselves and others around them up. How do you deal with that, how can you say that attacking their leaders will help to stop terrorism it will not and it hasn't. Current situations are proof of that.

What kind of freedom are WE as the US talking about giving Iraq? That's a bunch of bull, how can we say that they deserve democracy? Maybe they don't want democracy we can't impose our own views on their country it will not work. Name one place where it has worked where the US came into the country and so called made them "Free".

We are a SO-CALLED civilized nation so how do we so easily jump to war as an answer to the problem, is that what civilized people do?

If we were so concerned with Saddam he has been in power for many many years earning wealth doing despicable things to his people, why now? We did not give a damn about his people 5 years ago, even 2 years ago, so why now? This has been going on for over 10 years folks. Where was the US then?

We are not too concerned with killing innocent people in order to get one man! Is that civilized behavior? We are not too concerned with killing our own people to supposedly make a country free.

 

[1d3nt1tY]

It's good to see that your mind is not as closed as some peeplz.

http://http.dvlabs.com/carolina/UNCOVERED_Trailer_270K_MP4.mov


My main thing isn't really Ariel, he does what he does, and it's different country than mine, I really have no say... but I felt it a worthy mention. Destruction and pain can be wrought by anyone in power. Kings of the earth are flawed as is any human being, we all have our weaknesses and sometimes do the wrong thing at the expense of many other people.

Damn bro...

What's it like having joined the army in Israel since you have an open mind and (probably) many of your superiors don't?? Do you wind up doing things that you yourself wouldn't do if it weren't for the drive of war and your comrades?


just wondering. I also support anyone who was or is in any army, including you, due to the fact of everything that is laid on the line, life n limb for country. I have family and friends who are vets of previous wars. None of them are very happy about the state of affairs on a global level, I'm not really all polictico or anything, I just read alot... I guess my opinion gets too heavy, and I let my fingers run away with me...

I'm sure you know how it is.

Anyways, just marinate.

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

1d3nt1tY: i see and understand your point of view :yes: :nanner:
i also do agree with many of the things you've said :lick:

what is it like being a soldier in the israeli army? BELIEVE ME, YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW :laugh:
basically, too many riffraffs and simpletons (unfortunately, the face of the modern israeli society). the minded people try to escape from the army and continue their civil journey. don't get me wrong; there are good people, good commanders, good officers and good non-commissioned officers. but as a whole, the system is sick. but that's ARMY in general terms, everywhere you shall go. the military policy fundamentally tends towards the right wing (even though the greatest and most known commanders have been always on the left wing). there have been many mistakes, but also numerous successes.
i would have chosen to stay away from the army and continue my academic education. but that's risky. here, if you choose to run away from the army, you will (VERY LIKELY BUT NOT ALWAYS) end up sitting in prison; at least for a few months. and that's not a risk i'm willing to take.

Take It Easy,
Wings