There seems to be so few drum patterns

[The Konductor]

So check it. This is what I've observed and I'm just wondering what you cats think of it.

In hip-hop, and pop, there seems to be a limited amount of drum patterns. Kick-snare-kick-kick-snare, kick-kick-snare-kick-snare, kick-snare-kick-snare-kick-kick-snare, and so on and so forth. Its kinda like that guitar and organ riff you hear in almost every reggae song, or like the accordian and bassline in tejano/mexican music. Except for the fact that you can stack different kicks and snares to make it more punchy or whatever and hi-hats can be tricked out, but it still seems like everyones using or has used the same beat, just at different BPM's.

Can ya'll feel me on this? I guess it wouldn't be hip-hop if it wasn't so. Sorry if this is an obvious one, but I really want some insight on your thoughts.

 

[Cold Truth]

nope man im sorry to say but i vehemantly disagree with that.

those are basic patterns, yes, but there is sooooo much more to it then that.

 

[The Konductor]

nope man im sorry to say but i vehemantly disagree with that.

those are basic patterns, yes, but there is sooooo much more to it then that.

Such as what Cold Trizzle? I'm not talkin about how much delay or reverb can alter a beat. I'm talkin bout how they land on 1(kick)and3, 2(snare)and4. I mean I guess I could start creating beats in the 3/4 or 2/2 meter. You know the actual spacing. Yeah theres still alot one can do sonically. I'm not sure if you know what I'm gettin at. And wow, vehemantly? Thats a new big word. Is that like vehicularmanslaughter rolled into one?

Jus joshin!

 

[classic]

There is a limit becasue hip hop is looped based, there are only so many varitions u can fit in a 4,8 or 16 bar loop.

This is the case for most generes of music since many of them are looped based.

with that being said, simplicity and limation leads to creativity , i never run out of ideas.


classs....

 

[J Rilla]

Pretty much what everybody else said....I not sure if it is you that are runnin out of ideas for drum paterns or u just think Hip hop only has a few patterns...If its you I recomend extendin the loop..I f i feel may drum patterns are becomin repetative a extend the loop to 8 or even 16 and just zone out and i usually come up with sumthin fresh...eventually i want to start doing longer and longer loops so i t begins to get that live drummer feel

 

[DJ Hoppa]

nope man im sorry to say but i vehemantly disagree with that.

those are basic patterns, yes, but there is sooooo much more to it then that.

agreed. Think about some ill breaks. Those patterns are so much more complicated, you wouldnt even understnad em if i was like - kick-ki-kick- kickickickkk - snare - soft snare - kickicsnarkickhatcongashitweirdsoundnow

 

[Equality 7-2521]

contrary to what classic says, i dont think there is any limit. i think the limits are only those which you place on yourself. the fact of the matter is that a sound (in this case, drum hits) can be placed on so many different precise positions along a timeline that the number of patterns which can be produced is practically endless. also the fact that you can use as many different drum hits as you want makes for even more variety.

also, thinking something isnt Hiphop just because it has an untraditional drum pattern is FUCKING REDICULOUS!!!!!!!! imo. how can you "Take Hiphop Production To The Next Level" when you wont let yourself leave the one your already on.

 

[Cold Truth]

agreed. Think about some ill breaks. Those patterns are so much more complicated, you wouldnt even understnad em if i was like - kick-ki-kick- kickickickkk - snare - soft snare - kickicsnarkickhatcongashitweirdsoundnow

this is exactly where my answer was going konductor. there are so many things you can do, snare rolls, plus if you go into step sequencing and sequence using say, 64th notes instead of 16's, you have new placement options, etc.

utilizing the open/close functions on high hats, i mean i can make an entire album of kick-snare-kick-snare beats using different tempos, different swing settings, and suppliment that pattern with congas, shakers, tamborines, toms, hats, cymbals, etc.

now, you could be saying"i mean just the kick and snare" and to that, i say, i fyou choose to limit the placement to 1/3 kicks and 2/4 snares, thats a habit you need to break. drum programming is an art in itself and while it is good not to overthink it, getting yourself a "bag of tricks" is a good idea.

perhaps i will do a tutorial on this, i was meaning to do one a while back but i think i will do it now.

 

[Lex]

I have to agree with pretty much every thing Cold Truth has already said.
I myself am a drummer, and I never run out of ideas when making [hiphop] drum patterns - for example I like to use ride cymbals quite a lot too as you can add a more jazzy/laid feel to a track as the hits have much longer decays and a generally less sharp/tight sound....this is quite different to the simple 8th note hihat patterns predominant in hiphop, that we all use.

I too like to keep the snare placement to 2s and 4s of a pattern -but I will pretty much always have variations [wether drops or fills etc] throughout a track. You can add varying amounts of swing to make the patterns more realistic but there are loads of other things you can do to vary your drum patterns - add rolls or tiplet hihat parts or accent differnt hihat notes in the pattern [or any other drum sound for that matter].

Loops don't have to be limited to 2 bars or even 4. Making longer loops not only makes the pattern more interesting but more realistic - by making subtle changes to the pattern you can get more of a live feel. Serioulsy, as everyone else has already said - the possibilities even with just hihat, snare and bass drums sounds along with different amounts of swing/different amount of bars in a loop are endless.

Yes - a lot of hiphop uses similar drum patterns [even throughout an album], but even then the producers do a number of things to vary their drums [apart from obvioulsy using different sounds or altering/layering them]

Man, there are so many ways to varying your drum patterns, not to mention ways of varying the sounds.

 

[The Konductor]

Its not that I feel limited because I make sure to program my drum loops differently each time I create. I was just aluding to the fact that when I listen to the radio and hip-hop/r&b, I tend to notice alot of the same "drum paterrns" being used by different producers. Yeah you can add or drop a kick or double up on a snare, but sometimes it still sounds very similar. Like Lil Jon for instance, or Beats By The Pound, Cash money. I'm sure those guys have used a Lil Wayne drum pattern on a Juvenile track. They just changed the accompaniment. Ya know?

But yeah, I feel what Hoppa and Cold are saying about break beats. However I'm not schooled on the step sequencing in different resolutions such as 8ths, 16ths, 32nds, and 64s. I can't even figure out how to step sequence on my triton. Thats why I use my 505 to program drums. Yeah I know I have alot of homeowrk to do.

 

[Cold Truth]

the triton has one of the biggest headaches of a step sequencer i have ever worked with... and yes i have worked with several.

 

[sYgMa]

I think that most East Coast well known artist like a more simple drum pattern, so they are almost all kick snare kick kick snare... kick snare kikick snare or some variation of that...

But a lot of cats use different patterns...

timbo, premier, JD...

 

[J Rilla]

sometimes it still sounds very similar. Like Lil Jon for instance, or Beats By The Pound, Cash money. I'm sure those guys have used a Lil Wayne drum pattern on a Juvenile track. They just changed the accompaniment. Ya know?.

Ur absolutley right,but fr the most part its out of neccesty.....Big time producers have a set of pre made drum tracks that they always use becuz they have to make such a high volume fo beats in a small amount of time..they might take out or add a kick or a snare to change it up a little bit but its the same track...

 

[bhunt]

I never thought about the limit, I just bang the pads until they make me feel good.

 

[Phiba Optix]

Sit down and really think about it playa... EVEN IF there was one way of placing a kick and a snare... You could make that ONE VARIATION sound SO different by using different kick/snare samples, different hi-hat samples/patterns and not to mention percussion, which can make a drumloop sound ever so different. AS WELL as using swing, which can make that one drumloop sound ever so different.

Then, when you think there isn't only one drumloop pattern, then you begin to realise the possibilities are endless.

Just my two pennies...

 

[mr mello]

used to think that too, till I listened to tracks by Kenny dope , King Britt , J dilla and dj spinna ...

 

[Renegade Music]

someone fill me in...what exactly is swing and how do you create "swing"?I have a faint idea but it's vauge.

 

[blitz]

I agree with what Equality & Cold Truth are saying. There really isn't any limit to what you can do if you're creative with it. This being said, there is something to what you're saying Konductor, because its true that a huge chunk of hiphop does use very similar, or simple drum patterns. Sometimes simplicity or the typical pattern works, and it can work well, but if you're feeling like drum styles are getting monotonous, just try new things. Listen close to the drum sounds and drum patterns in other genres like classic rock, funk, jazz, soul, or any other genre at all. Some may give you ideas for ways to transfer those styles to hiphop beats, but it'll probably also show u how similar a lot of those drums are to hiphop drum patterns. Definitly tho look into getting down to the nitty gritty and programming drums at the 32nd and 64th notes.


Oh and Renegade, swing is basically a MIDI quantizing function that instead of matching all the drum hits or notes directly on the 1/16th (or whatever) gridlines, it shifts them around a very slight bit to give it more of a natural feel. I can't think exactly how to do it in any program right now, but most MIDI sequencers like sonar, cubase, logic, protools, etc. will have the option in there somewhere.

 

[classic]

There are only a limited number of patterns that u can fit in a 8 bar loop

But like i said eariler
Limitations force creativity

For example,EVery single blues song is made up of three chourds...

class.....

 

[blitz]

classic I don't understand why you think that. What is the limited number of patterns? Did u do the math? If you really think about how much space u have in 8 bars you'll see that you really are not limited. Ok lets look at 8 bars. In 8 bars in 4/4 there are 128 16th note positions alone. Take that amount of possible drum placements, then factor in all the different styles of arranging kicks, then snares, then hats, cymbals, congas, etc etc. Then consider the fact that you dont have to stick with just an 8 bar loop. If you go as far as making a 16 or 32 bar loop where the drums are constantly changing up throughout in some sort of progression, then your options go beyond that. You're only limited if you tell yourself that you are.