Theory of Music 101

[Chrono]

Who here has taken music theory in the past? I'm taking it this semister and am learning all kinds of things that I can apply to my productions. I'd like to know who here has taken these classes in the past so I understand everyone's style/method-of-development. Peace Fam. Btw, this week I composed a song using notes and rests and had to write lyrics. It worked out nice and this monday i'll be preforming it for the class. if a few people resond i'll post the link to the short mp3. peace yall

 

[KurtisRich]

I havent taken any classes for it but I have been reading about music theories

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Hey dawg i was writing and reading music, and sight reading at like 9 or 10 and all the way thru high school my 2 instruments are sax, and drums, music theory is essential, as an organized player in a band it is somewhat important, now full composition is a lot different though because you have to know how to write pieces, chord progressions, circle of 5ths and how to form scale chords and change keys, I wish I had taken piano though that instrument, everything I learned on that I taught myself and from playing in live bands as a backup but I applied some concepts from knowing chords and notation, I think piano really helps you to understand full composition, what instrument do you play?.......if you notice in hip hop depending on what level you want to go to it makes a difference and then sometimes a good hip hop producer just has a good ear, to me the ear is more important than all of the theory for hip hop, if you go by the way you are taught in a class and reading music and not freely playing like ad libing in a band etc... it might come out stiff and with no soul or feel to it......you have to be able to transfer feel and dynamics to your music, if you sample you can find the riffs that already have the elements, thats why a lot of people sample especially in hip hop...you dont necessarily have to know all of that except for mood and tone you are going to set using something extracted from a real musician....I would like to hear what you do though...
Good luck

 

[classic]

Most folks hear already know my background so no need to go into detail.....

Music theory is always dope to learn, but i would recommend (if u can)
Learning music theory along with an instrument, that why u can apply the knowledge that you learn practically.

For example when learning to read music, u want to have a muscle reflex to go along with the note.
So if u see D, ur not just saying "hey thats D" because honestly that’s pointless

When I see the note D on the staff, I have a muscle reflex (depending on what instrument im playing

D
One the saxophone(E-flat alto, B-flat tenor and E-flat bari)- all 6 fingers down
Piano- finger moves to the D note on the keys
Guitar(which im learning)-6th string 3rd fret...

When u do this, u can tie a note to a muscle reflex so when u begin to read music its second nature. It gets to a point where ur muscles and subconscious recognize the note before u even consciously think about it. This intern enhances the practical application of theory cause when u memorize chords progressions, u can freestyle and move on the fly(that’s what jazz cats do). It also gives you the abilitity to "hear" the theory which is the most important thing

I can site hear and talk bout schoinburgs 12 tone scale atonel system becasue i read a couple of his books. BUt it dont mean shit if i cant reconize it by hearing it.....

I hope this helps....
Good luck

class...

 

[bhunt]

Most folks hear already know my background so no need to go into detail.....

Music theory is always dope to learn, but i would recommend (if u can)
Learning music theory along with an instrument, that why u can apply the knowledge that you learn practically.

For example when learning to read music, u want to have a muscle reflex to go along with the note.
So if u see D, ur not just saying "hey thats D" because honestly that’s pointless

When I see the note D on the staff, I have a muscle reflex (depending on what instrument im playing

D
One the saxophone(E-flat alto, B-flat tenor and E-flat bari)- all 6 fingers down
Piano- finger moves to the D note on the keys
Guitar(which im learning)-6th string 3rd fret...

When u do this, u can tie a note to a muscle reflex so when u begin to read music its second nature. It gets to a point where ur muscles and subconscious recognize the note before u even consciously think about it. This intern enhances the practical application of theory cause when u memorize chords progressions, u can freestyle and move on the fly(that’s what jazz cats do). It also gives you the abilitity to "hear" the theory which is the most important thing

I can site hear and talk bout schoinburgs 12 tone scale atonel system becasue i read a couple of his books. BUt it dont mean shit if i cant reconize it by hearing it.....

I hope this helps....
Good luck

class...

yeah that memroy with the instrments and the keys is where its at. Like on the clairinet even though I havne't played in about 6 years I still know that the D is your thumb and your 1st 2 fingers without even thinking about it. But for me I'm trying to memorise chord progressions in my head and my fingers on the keys. I don't think I'm going to get any more formal lessons.

 

[Chrono]

I've been applying what i'm learning to my midi keyboard, but after reading what you wrote [Classic] i'm starting to think I need more than a keyboard. I want to get to the point where I am familiar enough in the musical realm to create endlessly without technical difficulties. As a kid i jammed out on my friends guitars but never played it frequently.. i'f i do get en instrument it will probably be an acoustic guitar that I can plug into my setup, but my budget and homework might keep me from that. Thanks for the information Class it was helpful. This is that song that I wrote:

Mp3 Version

Finale Notepad Tabulature of Song

It a very small mp3 and the Score (i think that's what it's called) with the Staff and Notes. The score is a file openable with a program called Finale Notepad so only a very few might have the program therefore most will ignore it. peace an thx

 

[2_nice]

piano/keyboard is the ultimate instrument to learn you don't need a guitar

 

[classic]

piano/keyboard is the ultimate instrument to learn you don't need a guitar

Sorry man your dead wrong their, thats a big myth. It really dosent matter what u learn as long as you have a refernce. Most of you on illmuzik know me as a pianist. But i started playing piano failry late 14. The saxaphone was my primary instrament (since 7)that allowed me to progess very quickly when i picked up the keys.

THe guitar is a dope man trust me im learning it we speak. People dont realise that the keys can be quite limiting becasue it dosent allow u to bend pitches or play imbetween the notes like a guitar or sax...

It really just depends on where ur talent is. I know people who compose with a guitar, i know other cats that compose with their sax, others with the keys. Its all the same process....

class...

 

[andreas]

Hey Classic. I admire your knowledge and your insight. I wish I could say the same. I play it 95% by ear and 5% knowledge of the theory.
I know some theory, but most of it's what I myself have come to know as truth in my world of music by trial and error.

I sure wish I could read notes and know the fact behind it all.

Since you seem like a person posessing knowledge about the keys I'd like to ask you a question that has been gnawing me and that I haven't managed to find the answer to.

The "Devils Interval" or the Tritone. How is that played. What is the keyes. Do you know?

Tritone: The tritone, which may be a diminished fifth or augmented fourth, is 6 in integer notation and 600 cents. It can be approximated by the ratio 17:12, whose inverse is 24:17 and is 6 cents flatter than 17:12. (Ideally, the tritone should equal its own inverse.) It is called "tritone" because it spans three whole steps. It exactly, symmetrically, divides the octave in half and was considered the most dissonant interval, literally "the devil's interval" (diabolus in musica). It plays an important role in the dominant seventh chord.

I don't understand all of that.

Peace

Trivia about the Devils interval and why I'm interested in it.

Long ago the Church banned the tritone "the devils interval" because they thought that the devil lived in that arrangement because it sounded so terribly horrid.

It's today used in almost every Horror Movie music and in death metal bacause of it's eerie tonation.

I'd like to know how it's done and see for myself if it's somehting to be used in a beat.

There's that.

 

[classic]

Trivia about the Devils interval and why I'm interested in it.

Long ago the Church banned the tritone "the devils interval" because they thought that the devil lived in that arrangement because it sounded so terribly horrid.

It's today used in almost every Horror Movie music and in death metal bacause of it's eerie tonation.

I'd like to know how it's done and see for myself if it's somehting to be used in a beat.

There's that.

Yea i remember learning about that, i think it was out lawed before the barqoure period, as far as what they are saying i can make out some of it, (the dimished chourd part etc..) but when he starts talkin bout cents etc... he lost me. I gonna hit up my theory book, and see the exact chourd stucture, ill have an answer later on and ill play an example

 

[andreas]

Cool man.. Sorry I dumped it on you to figure it out

Thankful though.

peace

 

[Chrono]

Dj Hoppa???

DJ HOPPA????? Whats your 2-Cents?

AND MERCURY


i mean yall are some kids who are following through with your things so come-on now an speak your BRAINS.

 

[Chrono]

Well I originally started this thread cuz I wanted to let yall who don't know and are not in college to go to a call your local community college and find out how much it will cot to take 1 music theory class. It should be like 270.00 plus your books you'll fall back on for years to come. Though the main reason still unrevealed is the networking opporuntities. You'll find all types of musicians ready, motivated, and steady on point to jam . check it out

 

[PHV]

You don't need to spend any money to learn theory... go on the internet.

All you need to know is basic syntax... in hip hop, you don't need more than I-IV-V-I to get around, but obviously you'd want to expand on the tonic, predominant, dominant-tonic to get a richer chord structure.

The "devil's interval" or more accurately "diablos in musica" is a tri-tone. Diminished 4th. It is dissonant, and in the context of two or three part counterpoint can be very jarring if not used properly. Initially when church music evolved to using disonances, it was only allowed on weak beats.

But now of course, western tonality relies completely on dissonance, hence the dominant 7th chord which is extremely important. Jazz thrives on dissonance. Sadly, I don't think that atonal music is commercially viable, but it's fun to explore.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

man whats needed are more original players and instrumentalists though, just think of the garbage music that is being played today as far as original and heavily instrumental with a brass section dope drummer and keys but there are bad points to playing in bands with 6 other people to plan a song, for the singers to get their parts right and hooks etc and doing bridges and changes...it can get to be taxing and the late night practices...I stopped live play because it was too demanding of my time.....I wont get into the sampling debate because I do it....but just think of all of the pool of music that was stocked up and made available to sample that had REAL musicians and bands playing putting it on wax where they know all the chords inside out how to play...some self taught, some taught at Berkley or at Church.....most hip hop producers for the most part dont really need to know all that to make hip hop in the traditional sense even though its on how deep you want to go...and yes I know theory but take some polls......most of the time your ear is your best tool...especially when replaying something.....you always sample dope chords and riffs you want to sound pro in a track because you are probably playing it nothing like you hear on the record (except maybe Classic) and how a PRO is voicing the chord are two different things unless you a pro...LOL but in 10 or 15 years will the soul classic and dope wax cuts still be sampled....I mean, we need more original BANDS that actually MAKe real music with the acoustics and everything.....its easy to crossover into hip hop as a progression....I played in bands and played as a backup on keys...I am like you Andreas....I taught everthing I know on keys by ear and applying theories learned on sax......but my approach of tying in what I was taught on Sax to keys was minimal....i learned from other board players on what to do and fill etc....but anyhow like I said I think more people should be looking to expand and maybe play live....I played in live bands first...then started producing...then did both....but the music I wanted to create was all sample based and hip hop dirty sounding LOL and WU and a lot of others in the 90's most of that music was doing so again I never thought to make my hip hop productions musical even though that started happening more and more.....but playing in bands like neo soul a lot of that rnb type stuff was great..but again it never ocurred to me to apply it completely to what I produce as far as hip hop until recently....most of the people I know that do it a lot are doing more RnB...but also some hip hop.

 

[Dolius]

I can site hear and talk bout schoinburgs 12 tone scale atonel system becasue i read a couple of his books. BUt it dont mean shit if i cant reconize it by hearing it.....

I hope this helps....
Good luck

class...

schoinburg??!? i hope you meant arnold schönberg. just a little difference there.. at least if you act like you know this shit.

and atonel? i always thought that was about ATONAL scales.. you know, tonal and a-tonal. as in wise and unwise.

class indeed...

 

[classic]

schoinburg??!? i hope you meant arnold schönberg. just a little difference there.. at least if you act like you know this shit.

and atonel? i always thought that was about ATONAL scales.. you know, tonal and a-tonal. as in wise and unwise.

class indeed...

What the hell???

No need to be a fucking asshole about it, yea i misspelled some shit, its been years since ive learned about schonberg and I typed it fast

get over it newb.....and who the hell do you think you are anyway?

classs...

 

[bigdmakintrax]

anyhow here is a good link to some composers....
http://www.awesomelibrary.org/Classroom/Arts/Music/Classical_Music.html
my favorite is mendelssohn.

 

[Chrono]

nice, thanks for the drop Trax

 

[PHV]

Well the essence of hip hop is simplicity... the idea that any dude can do it from the basement or on a street corner. That is why a lot of the best, most classic beats are simple. I know that the top commercial producers don't consider any real music theory in their beats, and that's fine. The stuff that is more involved would probably not get listened to as often...

To be honest I've never heard a good beat by someone who claims to know and use more than basic western music theory...

Also Dolius, there's no need to be a prick. I don't think classic (from what I can see) is claiming to be a theoretical prodigy, nor is this site really a place for this kind of discussion, so I think a few spelling mistakes could be forgiven.