True! But a lot of "hip hops" melody comes from classic soul, r&b etc etc. It's just played as opposed to sampled! But guess what..them greedy bastards have even found a way to get in your pocket for that. Shit can't even sound similar even if played live without you having to pay them royalties. I'm not saying what classifies as hip hop either....I just stated where it derived...that's undeniable! It has evolved into something much diff't and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is that it was forced to do so. Record company's trying to get from us what the didn't give in the first place is a bunch of bullshit if you ask me...so don't ask me! lol
The Great Debate
- Thread starter MarkN
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warzone (nov 5-9) signup begins in...
True! But a lot of "hip hops" melody comes from classic soul, r&b etc etc. It's just played as opposed to sampled! But guess what..them greedy bastards have even found a way to get in your pocket for that. Shit can't even sound similar even if played live without you having to pay them royalties. I'm not saying what classifies as hip hop either....I just stated where it derived...that's undeniable! It has evolved into something much diff't and there's nothing wrong with that. The thing is that it was forced to do so. Record company's trying to get from us what the didn't give in the first place is a bunch of bullshit if you ask me...so don't ask me! lol
Church, thats where a lot of people learned to play instruments and sing.
Ok..now we're comparing apples & oranges. The bottom line is that knowing music theory and how to play instruments was not where hip hop got it's start! It's an asset to know this in the game today but it was not founded on that premise.
And speaking of "Church" that's the foundation of all black music. Secular "Soul music" derived from "Gospel" music and all other black music from that. Did you watch "RAY" or any Nat "king" Cole movies. lol
But this is of course a whole other topic of discussion..right now we're talking about the foundation of "hip hop", sampling!
The foundation was not sampling it was spinnin the breaks back to back and funkin it up from there.
So the the foundation is the DJ skills which are entirely missing now adays.
Once the sampler was born THEN it started but initially it was mostly composed.
So the the foundation is the DJ skills which are entirely missing now adays.
Once the sampler was born THEN it started but initially it was mostly composed.
Kontents
I like Gearslutz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 5
Co-sign*
Hip Hop Originated by DJ's using drumbreaks and looping them on turntables, usually DJ's would use two tables with the same record to accomplish this. I dont feel that hip hop can be defined by the composing or sampling. Hip Hop is defined by creativity and originality of Drumbreaks with whatever, samples, keys. dings, chimes, bells, sines whatever.
lol...A dj spinning is not composing....it's mixing or remixing and if you look way back there^^^^^ you'll see that I mentioned the DJ/sampler first. The dj didn't compose the break! He basically "sampled" somebody elses composition by way of the turn table. You can say it was "live sampling" thus sample based. Sometimes you have to read all previous post before you just chime in on one.
Everybody has there interpretation of the foundation...some will say it all started in that Blondi joint "Rapture" (which was composed) but most know it was wayyyyyyyy before that. Others will say it was "blue lights in the basement and the dj catching a break and spinning it back while and MC rocked the mic. Some will say when the sampler was implemented because that's when it really blew the fuck up i.e. Pete Rock doing the Pat B joint "Love is a battle field". Either way "it's all good" and this is a good discussion because it helps the younger catz get some history which too many today don't posses!
READ ME!
In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or element of a new recording. This is typically done with a sampler, which can be a piece of hardware or a computer program on a digital computer. Sampling is also possible with tape loops or with vinyl records on a phonograph. (WHAT...NAH....THAT'S NOT SAMPLING IS IT RELIC....LOL)
The roots of hip hop can be found in 1970s block parties in New York City, specifically The Bronx[1]. Hip hop culture, including rapping, scratching, graffiti, and breakdancing. In the 1930s more than a sixth of Harlem residents were from the West Indies, and the block parties of the '80s were closely similar to sound systems in Jamaica[1]. These were large parties, originally outdoors, thrown by owners of loud and expensive stereo equipment, which they could share with the community or use to compete among themselves, who began speaking lyrics or toasting.
Rap music emerged from block parties after ultra-competitive DJs isolated percussion breaks, those being the favorites among dancers, and MCs began speaking over the beats[1]; in Jamaica, a similar musical style called dub developed from the same isolated and elongated percussion breaks. However, "most rappers will tell you that they either disliked reggae or were only vaguely aware of it in the early and middle '70s."[1]
Lastly, most existing hip hop acts were shocked when King Tim III's throwback [1] to radio DJs rhyming jive and the Sugarhill Gang's appropriation of rap on their remake, not sample, of Chic's "Good Times" were released, as most DJs and MCs knew each other and many had been attempting to record[1]. Early rap records are a mix bag of quality material by party veterans and poorer material quickly produced for a profit.
I THINK THAT ABOUT SUMS IT ALL UP! CAN'T MAKE AN ARGUMENT WHEN FACED WITH FACT!
TRUE INDEED...RAP IS WHAT EMCEES DO OVER BEATS...HIP HOP IS A LIFESTYLE... BREAKING, GRAFITTI, DJ'ING, BEATBOXING (OR MAKING BEATS), AND RAPPING. REAL HEADS BACK INTHE DAY CATS WAS SKILLED IN ATLEAST 3 OUTTA 5 CATAGORIES.
Lil Drama Boi; said:
You just made all that up and its disinformation....
BUT ..IF it were true then the very fact that they are running original music loops back to back make it composing NOT sampling thus I am vindicated altho everyone knows hiphop came from the bannana boat song not all that stuff you just made up..
And I only use portioners NOT samplers to record.
ah ha ha ha ha ha....I'm good but not that good. I do research before I just start putting out "misinformation". There's nothing wrong with admitting that you just didn't know something....builds character! LMAO
Well the truth is I DID know all that .lol..member? Im O.L.D. !
dis information is distorted information. mis information is misleading information.
I still use portioners , and once the drum machine came out, which was BEFORE samplers cats were doing what is now electronica and became breakin music.
LATER but not much later there was sampling.Because I HAD the grandmaster flash LP where they use turntables and synths to make the LP..
Ever heard of Twilight 22? Thats was hiphop for a while
HEll Run DMC's first LP had NO sampling on it!
dis information is distorted information. mis information is misleading information.
I still use portioners , and once the drum machine came out, which was BEFORE samplers cats were doing what is now electronica and became breakin music.
LATER but not much later there was sampling.Because I HAD the grandmaster flash LP where they use turntables and synths to make the LP..
Ever heard of Twilight 22? Thats was hiphop for a while
HEll Run DMC's first LP had NO sampling on it!
lol..iight man..you win.
All I can say is for people to do there "own" research and discover the truth for themselves. I didn't make up one thing...it's all information that is readily available for all.
Well I'm making "a great escape" from the "debate" because the facts are in! lol
dj360_iNfInItE1
UNDeRGROUND STaTE of MiND
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 16
Ok,.........Hip-Hop is a culture not a style of music. Rap music is an art form inside of the shell of Hip-Hop. Now, rap may or may not have Hip-Hop flava but there technically isn't "Hip-Hop" music. If you want to look at it like that then the only form or rap that could be considered Hip-Hop is the kind that is made from digging in the crates. That's how all of this started anyway. I think what people mean is that there are keeping this music true to its roots and doing it in generally the same way it started out being done but on an updated scale with newer elements added to it but keeping the overall basic structure of the music the same. It's kind of hard to pin-point the correct wording to describe it but, when you hear music that is of the Hip-Hop culture, you can just tell.
Sincock
Fucking Wankers
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 8
Cosign Dj360. Hip Hop is what it is and it's evolved; that's the sign of a living culture. When it becomes static and stops changing then it's dead.
Uh no, speaking as an ignorant white boy: every mafucca knows "Black" music came from the Blues which came from AFRICA. Jazz had no connection with church music at all, it came straight from the blues by way of ragtime etc.
Uh no, speaking as an ignorant white boy: every mafucca knows "Black" music came from the Blues which came from AFRICA. Jazz had no connection with church music at all, it came straight from the blues by way of ragtime etc.
MarkN
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 55
some pretty good points being made....
what i was trying to get at was that the DJ spinning and looping breaks is kind of a form of sampling, so the natural evolution of this seemed to be to use the sampler when that was invented and that obviously formed the sound of early hip hop but nowadays more and more it seems t be synth stuff (not that there isn't sampled hip hop) this is probably due to legality as much as people choosing to use synths but i just wondered what people thought of this change.... is it too far removed now from the original to still be hip hop at all?
what i was trying to get at was that the DJ spinning and looping breaks is kind of a form of sampling, so the natural evolution of this seemed to be to use the sampler when that was invented and that obviously formed the sound of early hip hop but nowadays more and more it seems t be synth stuff (not that there isn't sampled hip hop) this is probably due to legality as much as people choosing to use synths but i just wondered what people thought of this change.... is it too far removed now from the original to still be hip hop at all?
Lazy Eyes
The Beat Konduktah
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
I think it's removed by the essence of hiphop when you look at the motivation. The motivation used to be.. the love for music. And the way you express that music isn't even the case. People would sample if that's your expression, or use synths if that's their expression..
It's all good.. It's still for the love of music..
The change is in this, all these young dudes are talking bout "Hell, I'm not gonna sample, I need to make money and i won't pay for clearances" Their motivation is getting rich with music and not the love of music....
The motivation is key in the change of hiphop.
It's all good.. It's still for the love of music..
The change is in this, all these young dudes are talking bout "Hell, I'm not gonna sample, I need to make money and i won't pay for clearances" Their motivation is getting rich with music and not the love of music....
The motivation is key in the change of hiphop.
lol, I hate to disagree with you , but blues also came from church music.
In fact ragtime is a form of jazz which is decended from classical!!
Black folks know how to take a music and flip it up and give it soul!!!
(sorta like sampling lol)