The End Of Sampling.. New Court Ruling

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nehustler

Guest
Court Rules That All Musical Samples Must Be Paid For:

When P. Diddy rapped in 1997 about taking "hits from the '80s," it didn't sound so crazy, because sampling had been an integral part of rap music for years.

On Tuesday, however, a federal appeals court found the process a bit less reasonable, ruling that artists must pay for every musical sample in their work.

The ruling says artists must pay for not only large samples of another artist's work, but also snippets — smaller notes, chords and beats that are not the artist's original composition — which had previously been legal, according to The Associated Press.

Three judges sitting on the panel of the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati said the same federal laws currently in place to halt music piracy will also apply to digital sampling, and explained, "If you cannot pirate the whole sound recording, can you 'lift' or 'sample' something less than the whole? Our answer to that question is in the negative."

The case at the crux of this new ruling focuses on the 1990 N.W.A song "100 Miles and Runnin'." The track samples a three-note guitar riff from a 1975 Funkadelic track, "Get Off Your Ass and Jam." The sample, in which the pitch has been lowered, is only two seconds long but is looped to extend to 16 beats and appears five times throughout the track.

The N.W.A song was included in the 1998 film "I Got the Hook Up," which starred Master P and was produced by his No Limit Films. The film company has argued that the sample was not protected by copyright law.

In 2002, a lower court said that although the Clinton riff was in fact entitled to copyright protection, the specific sample "did not rise to the level of legally cognizable appropriation," according to the AP. The appeals court opposed that decision, explaining that an artist who acknowledges that they made use of another artist's work may be liable, and sent the case back to the lower court.

"Get a license or do not sample," the court said Tuesday. "We do not see this as stifling creativity in any significant way."


—Alyssa Rashbaum
 

Cleverwon

Paradigm P
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 74
Good. Now producers will have to be more original. I fucking hate 80's samples from Puffy.
 
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DaFunkDocta2004

Guest
I can only look at this as the end of UNCREATIVE and lazy sampling, because there's no way on earth I'm going to start worrying about clearing drums, bass, or basic instruments I got from various sources. Those blatant loops and huge bites that the "big dogs" like Diddy and Jermaine Dupri could be outta here, but then again, they'll pay for the clearances. I was a little perturbed by the court's decision, but it's not going to alter my creative process, which includes sampling. Hell, I don't even have to SAY I sampled ANYTHING, lol

And that part about "even unrecognizable pieces..."? GIVE ME A BREAK. If you can't recognize it then what is it? I'm only going to tell you it's a bassline, lol.

I'm just gonna dig deeper.
 

Cleverwon

Paradigm P
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 74
Its not gonna be that much different. You dont pay unless you get caught. Thats how its always been. They can't sue you if they don't recognize that you've sampled anything.
 

RigorMortis

Army Of Darkness
ill o.g.
i wonder has there ever been a lawsuit for some one who sampled drums?
 

bigdmakintrax

BeatKreatoR
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 123
If anything though sampling huge pieces of work has gotten more blatent recently I am sooooo glad that this ruling came...it won't change the underground though....sampling is necessary to keep hip hop and the ambience of the underground....you will get more lil flip and lil John synth beats though I think.....southern hip hop will be still borrowing basslines and riffs from old funk album to lace what they do to keep it funky...instead of the obvious blatent samples......really there's not a lot of originality in music nowadays.....so maybe this will get cats to be more original and musical
 

gram green

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
it aint changin shit... everyone on a major label is already clearing all their samples nowadays anyways even smaller labels are as well for the fear of being sued... this local cat i sell beats to out here cleared one of the jointz i sold him... and like funkdoc said if they cant recognize it they cant do shit.... i would dare people to recognize the majority of my shit...
 
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The Bastard

Guest
cleverwon said:
Good. Now producers will have to be more original. I fucking hate 80's samples from Puffy.

bad.now producers will lose touch and further themselves away from the roots of hip hop
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
arghhhhh

"the roots" of hip hop? why should people have to "stay true to the roots"? why cant we just move forward? what happened to growth and trying new things? what happened to innovating?

honestly, staying "true to the roots" of hip hop would require moms turntables and no mixer... no drum machines.... no samplers... no scratches..... bu thats another issue i guess.

anyhow, this is a lot like the "new" nfl rule that states that you cant touch the reciever after all- AT ALL- but really it has always been a rule, now they have just decided to really enforce it.

all in all, this shouldnt change too much, because it is still up to the owner of the music to pursue it, as it always has been.... whats so new about it? it sounds the same to me.

besides that, the original artist deserves to be paid, and/or whoever owns the catalog deserves to be paid if you are using their work..... especially if you profit from it in any way. it may be bad for sample based producers, but by and large, its a rule that shuold exist because if someone jacks a beat you made, interpolates, or whatever and makes it "theirs", you would be pissed, especialy if they made a profit from it.

*disclaimer- "you" inst reffering to anyone specifically. its a general statement.
 
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DaFunkDocta2004

Guest
I was thinking the same thing about the how the original artists themselves would handle different sampling situations. I've heard many stories about how cool some of these cats are if you just reach out to them in some way. A personal phone call, a letter, something direct. George Clinton was, and still is, the coolest artist to work with in these situations. He actually supports it and FIGHTS that publishing company over his OWN work (what a world!). Some cats have said publicly, "don't sample me", like Gil Scott Heron and Ray Charles...who deserve respect, regardless of how they feel about Hip-Hop.

BUT, this is my fear...these clearance issues and decisions may not be made by the original artists. I'm afraid that the damn RIAA will get in this mix and start "regulating" and "monitoring" every little thing and basically bog down the creative process so badly that labels will literally start dropping cats because either a)the clearance process is too slow and costly or b)and remixed work with no samples completely destroys the artist's sound, marketability, and credibility among new, potential, and established fans.
 

jaydub23510

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Cold Truth said:
arghhhhh

"the roots" of hip hop? why should people have to "stay true to the roots"? why cant we just move forward? what happened to growth and trying new things? what happened to innovating?

honestly, staying "true to the roots" of hip hop would require moms turntables and no mixer... no drum machines.... no samplers... no scratches..... bu thats another issue i guess.

anyhow, this is a lot like the "new" nfl rule that states that you cant touch the reciever after all- AT ALL- but really it has always been a rule, now they have just decided to really enforce it.

all in all, this shouldnt change too much, because it is still up to the owner of the music to pursue it, as it always has been.... whats so new about it? it sounds the same to me.

besides that, the original artist deserves to be paid, and/or whoever owns the catalog deserves to be paid if you are using their work..... especially if you profit from it in any way. it may be bad for sample based producers, but by and large, its a rule that shuold exist because if someone jacks a beat you made, interpolates, or whatever and makes it "theirs", you would be pissed, especialy if they made a profit from it.

*disclaimer- "you" inst reffering to anyone specifically. its a general statement.



KNOW YOUR HISTORY BEFORE HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF!!!!!
 

jaydub23510

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
I only buy classic albums anyway, so I'll always stay with the true grit of hip hop!!! I don't buy shit that didn't come out before 1998!
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
I relate tha 'roots of hiphop' comment tho...Being that Im not against creating music in all ways , shapes, or forms, and moving foward by all means is essential and jus how things work, but ive also come love how hiphop got started and how it still sounds today because of those elements....I think that hiphop w/out sampling would make tha genre get pretty fucking stale in a matter of a couple years tops....I think that weve all come to love samples in our music, even when we dont realize that its sampled from another musical piece or band, etc because we hear it so often...Sampling has become an embedded way of comunicating through sound, and think that is def a dope thing!....Thing is; you can come wack in whatever u do, if you, yourself cuts corners and make a wack product, (hence long ass samples with no creativity)....
I think its fucked personally.

STEEZ
 

erkl

Funky Walker Dirty Talker
ill o.g.
long samples shouldnt be seen as no creativity... music doesnt need to be technical, its all about the sound in the end IMO
there are just some dope ass old tracks, that get looped up and sound great cuz the original track is fuggin dope, and if you have the dough to by the rights, power to ya. like that beatnuts/Jlo loop, thats a classic..

watch out now!~
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
jaydub23510 said:
KNOW YOUR HISTORY BEFORE HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF!!!!!

ummmmm please elaborate here, so this makes sense.

as for the issue of "the roots", i have no issue with that per se.

i just think that there is a bit of an obsession with everything having to maintain that particular sound, and unless it directly reflects the first decade or so of hip hop, it isnt "real" or whatever.

who IS "true to the roots" of hip hop, anyways?

personally, i think staying true to "the roots" are irrelevant... dope music is dope music.

for teh record, my favorite artists tend to be guys who reflect this aesthetic....
ayatollah, rjd2, alchemist all come to mind. i love sampled beats and personally most of the music i love in hip hop is based on samples.

i'm just saying..... hip hop doesnt have to sound like it did 20 years ago.....
 

orpheus

Cook Classics
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 39
erkl said:
long samples shouldnt be seen as no creativity... music doesnt need to be technical, its all about the sound in the end IMO
there are just some dope ass old tracks, that get looped up and sound great cuz the original track is fuggin dope, and if you have the dough to by the rights, power to ya. like that beatnuts/Jlo loop, thats a classic..

watch out now!~

i agree, finding that sample in order to loop it in the first place is half of where the creativity comes in sometimes. there's nothing wrong with using old tracks, as long as you put some time into finding them. the fact that you can take old music and completely alter its genre is pretty amazing i think. even if its the same song, the fact that it can now relate across multiple generations is huge. partly playing devil's advocate here, without sampling large chunks of ILLLL songs sometimes, our generation would never even know that the original song existed.
 
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The Bastard

Guest
no1 said u cant innovate and move foward . im just sayin people need to recognize how this shit got started and realize u dont need anything but 2 shitty turntables and 2 of the same rock records . hearin sum1 knock sample loops is like hearin sum1 knock an antique car
 
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