Tax Dollars?

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The Konductor

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Someone please tell me what the hell the government does with our tax money. Last pay period I was deducted $254. Every time we buy something we pay tax. With over 300 million peeps in America, 200+ million of them working & putting money into the economy, the gov has the nerve to ask us for help in Louisiana?

Don't even get this twisted because I believe we as Americans should have eachothers back and take care of eachother. My question is why do we wait for an ultimate tragedy to happen before we reach out and touch someone? Why does it take 100's of 1000's black folks to loose their residence before anyone takes a second look?

The gov should foot the bill for this. In actuallity we are footing the bill for everything the gov does. We're funding the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and soon to be Iran & Korea. We the average American foot the bill for the race for space exploration. Yet we don't have the option to see a doctor when ever we need it. We have to get docked $50-$100 per pay check to go see a doctor not of our choice or liking. We pay bullshit insurance premiums for accidents that 90% of the time don't even happen. Shouldn't we get atleast 40% of that money back after not having an accident after 5-10 years? Why am I docked $30 for social security that I'm not gonna benefit from? To support all the old fucks who helped fuck this country up in the 1st place? Come on man!
 

Vince

2Cool2BeAHebrew
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
I don't see why you bother to complain.

I live in Sweden, the country with the highest tax pressure in the world.

* Total tax pressure in percent of GDP in 2001:
- Sweden: 50.8%
- USA: 28.9% (2000)
[Source: OECD]

* Value Added Tax (VAT):
- Sweden: 25%
- USA: 5 - 9% (sales tax)
[Source: OECD]

* Payroll taxes:
- Sweden: 32.8%
- USA: 9.4%
[Source: Taxpayers' Association of Finland]

Don't ask me about the numbers cause I don't know what I'm posting, but the precentage is higher :p
 

The Konductor

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Vince said:
I don't see why you bother to complain.

I live in Sweden, the country with the highest tax pressure in the world.

:p

Now this is the exact sentiment that allows governments to bend citizens over and fuck them in the ass without any lube I might add. Why are people so afraid to speak their mind when it comes to injustice and plain inequalities that are forced upon us by superiors, meaning people w/ money & power?

Vince if I did something to you that was unfair, does that mean you can't complain about it? How are you gonna tell anyone that you don't see why they have to voice their opinion? We the people are the ones w/ the real power but the majority don't realize it and aren't willing to sacrifice their petty lives for something that will benefit man kind as a whole

I don't see why you don't bother to complain. You must like taking it.
 

andreas

Iller Than Most
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
Well now "the konductor".

I also live in sweden. Have you ever been here? We have the highest tax pressure in the world but we also have free medical care, free schools, better and more accesible roads than most countries in the world.
And we sure do have a better overall standard then the US. Cus face it, the US and the UK is in many ways a 3rd world country when it comes to standards.
Your country has degenarated into a state of pure shit man. (not figurativly speaking ofcourse).
But you have many slums, shitty degenarated parts and low standards when it comes to rental flats, ofiicial building and populated places.

And this is also a fact, I live in Linköping, swedens 4th biggest town. And we have 4 "listed" homeless people in out town. I don't think you can say the same man.

So, ho again did you say liked taking it??
 

o-a-ksavage

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
andreas said:
Well now "the konductor".
I also live in sweden. Have you ever been here? We have the highest tax pressure in the world but we also have free medical care, free schools, better and more accesible roads than most countries in the world.

Your medical care is not free, none of those things are. What they are is payed for by the money that the government forces people to pay at the point of a gun. Is medical care free to the hard working man that not only has to pay taxes to cover himself, but also to support every lowlife who chooses to sit on his ass?

And we sure do have a better overall standard then the US. Cus face it, the US and the UK is in many ways a 3rd world country when it comes to standards.
Your country has degenarated into a state of pure shit man. (not figurativly speaking ofcourse).
But you have many slums, shitty degenarated parts and low standards when it comes to rental flats, ofiicial building and populated places.

Are you serious? The U.S is by far the richest nation in the world. The fact that we have a large population means that there are obviously going to be poor parts, but the poor of America live like kings compared to the average citizen in the third world countries you talk about. And remember, all the inventions that make your standard of living higher and the vast majority of our existences possible came out of the industrial revolution and the capitalist west. Where did the medicines you guys have "free" access to come from? Where did the technology to pave those roads come from? These things are not natural resources, they are creations of the mind, and Capitalism is the only system in which the mind is free to create.

And this is also a fact, I live in Linköping, swedens 4th biggest town. And we have 4 "listed" homeless people in out town. I don't think you can say the same man.

If you do not choose to work and support your life, then you have to freedom to be a bum on the streets. Life on Earth requires certain things like food, and it does not just fall into your mouth if you hold it open, you must work to gain it.

Konducter, your frustration is completely rational. The U.S. is no longer a Capitalist nation, but a mixed economy, which basically means a nation with no principles in a transition period towards dictatorship. Remember this, a government is an organization with a legal monopoly on the use of physical force. They have nothing to offer society in terms of creating wealth, all they can do is take money from those who do create wealth and distribute it or do certain projects. The government has only one moral purpose, to protect the rights of its citizens, meaning to protect its citizens from the use of physical force, whether it be from outside nations or criminals here. "To protect these inalienable rights governments are instituted among men." The government has no other purpose and no other reason for existing. The military, the police, and the courts are the only proper government agencies, because they are there to protect the rights of the citizens.
 

ManDAmyth

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
There are quite a few ghettos that are just as bad as any 3rd World Country.

I'm originally from South Side Chicago. There's certain parts that are that bad. Only difference is instead of living in a house made of sticks, they live in a modern building.

In Mississppi there are places like that as well, Texas, Colorado. You ever been to the gritty parts of Baltimore? Shit, just isn't documented here, because there is no economic benefit for our government to do anything.

American is one of the richest countries in the world, yes, but that money is not distributed. Most of our "fortune" is controlled by a very small percentage of our population.

That's why I hate a lot of people that talk about Americans in general like were greedy fucks that like flexing our muscle around the world. Those decisions are made from a handful of people up top. Our government is controlled by corporations. Our money is controlled by the Federal Reserve, which many Americans falsely believe is a branch of the American government.

Tobacco is legal. Insurance companies get away with what is essentially fraud. Banks make more profit off my money than I do.

These things happen or are allowed to because it benefits those in power.

When you speak up you are silenced. That is the reality.

Canada and Sweden are two examples of countries who's main objective is their people. Look at the quality of their lives. Look how beautiful their cities are. Look at their healthcare. Look at their crime rates. Notice how they aren't trying to police the world. Although, I do believe Sweden plays a noble and Neutral role in the Korean Conflict.

America's Middle East policy is bullshit. They claim neutrality but keep providing funds to Israel.

Taxes are actually an excellent thing. The problem is, is that the politicians in America use our tax dollars for foreign policy. That's bullshit.

The levee's where never fixed in New Orleans because Clinton and Bush took money for that for foreign policy.
 

stroke

Member
ill o.g.
The Konductor said:
Someone please tell me what the hell the government does with our tax money. Last pay period I was deducted $254. Every time we buy something we pay tax. With over 300 million peeps in America, 200+ million of them working & putting money into the economy, the gov has the nerve to ask us for help in Louisiana?

Don't even get this twisted because I believe we as Americans should have eachothers back and take care of eachother. My question is why do we wait for an ultimate tragedy to happen before we reach out and touch someone? Why does it take 100's of 1000's black folks to loose their residence before anyone takes a second look?

The gov should foot the bill for this. In actuallity we are footing the bill for everything the gov does. We're funding the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and soon to be Iran & Korea. We the average American foot the bill for the race for space exploration. Yet we don't have the option to see a doctor when ever we need it. We have to get docked $50-$100 per pay check to go see a doctor not of our choice or liking. We pay bullshit insurance premiums for accidents that 90% of the time don't even happen. Shouldn't we get atleast 40% of that money back after not having an accident after 5-10 years? Why am I docked $30 for social security that I'm not gonna benefit from? To support all the old fucks who helped fuck this country up in the 1st place? Come on man!



from wat my uncle say general Heagy told hold him that bust has lost more money as presdeint than ever before. So he raise everything ass high as possible beofre he leaves. Get surtain people to by stocks in surtain companies(mainly his) them hell make an expected like 2.5 billion. He leaves office everthing goes back to normll. Fucked up but genuise
 

o-a-ksavage

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
ManDAmyth said:
There are quite a few ghettos that are just as bad as any 3rd World Country.

That is just false. There are some ugly, grimy ass areas in the U.S., but do you realize how poor those countries are? The entire idea of getting a decent meal is out of the question. In any of the ghettos you speak of you can get a job at MacDonald's and make enough to feed yourself ten times better than the people of Somalia.

American is one of the richest countries in the world, yes, but that money is not distributed. Most of our "fortune" is controlled by a very small percentage of our population.

Why should it be "distributed?" It should not, the man who earns his money should keep 100 percent of it. No one's need is a claim on the life of any other man. And dude, do you realize that the very fact that we can even have this discussion on a computer is a result of the unprecedented wealth created by Capitalism?

That's why I hate a lot of people that talk about Americans in general like were greedy fucks that like flexing our muscle around the world. Those decisions are made from a handful of people up top.

The people who criticize America do it because they do not believe that a country has the right to protect its self-interest. Bush appeases them because he is a moral coward.

Our government is controlled by corporations.

That is completely false. Our government fucks over the corporations on a consistent basis.

Our money is controlled by the Federal Reserve, which many Americans falsely believe is a branch of the American government.

Hey, finally something I agree with you on. The federal reserve causes everyone's earned money to depend on the whim of this agency. What we need to do is return to the gold or silver standard.

Tobacco is legal.

Why should it not be? If people want to smoke, they are not violating anyone's rights and they should have the freedom to do so. What you're basically saying is tobacco should not be legal because people are unable to make good decisions and they need the omniscient government to make the decisions for them to protect them.

When you speak up you are silenced. That is the reality.

The problem is, you are speaking up without a true understanding. The things you are saying is what everyone says, you and the politicians are on the same page. What are your premises? What are the principles that you believe should guide our nation's actions? I agree that there is a major crisis, but probably in the exact opposite of the sense you speak of.

Canada and Sweden are two examples of countries who's main objective is their people. Look at the quality of their lives. Look how beautiful their cities are. Look at their healthcare. Look at their crime rates. Notice how they aren't trying to police the world.

Go live there then. Those places suck. In Canada you have to wait months to get care that you can get here in days. Doctors are slaves. They have a higher poverty rate than we do, and life is just not as exciting, there are not as many opportunities to use your mind in creative ways.

America's Middle East policy is bullshit. They claim neutrality but keep providing funds to Israel.

They claim neutrality because they are unprincipled moral cowards. We should give our uncompromising moral support to Israel, for the simple reason that they respect the rights of their citizens, Muslim and Jewish alike. Every other nation in the middle east is a brutal, murderous dictatorship that wants to wipe out any non-Islamic person or nation.

Taxes are actually an excellent thing. The problem is, is that the politicians in America use our tax dollars for foreign policy. That's bullshit.

What are taxes? Taxes are money that you have earned that the government takes from you at the point of a gun. They therefore act as the initiator of physical force, when their moral job is to be the protector from it.
 

ManDAmyth

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Corporations fund the campaigns of pretty much every canidate that runs for office.

Tobacco is legal. Marijuana isn't. Why? Those in power wouldn't benefit from it.

How can capitalism work when it's overan by Nepotism?
America has an unofficial caste system. It is defined by wealth.

I really suggest you take a trip to the South Side of Chicago, go to Baltimore. Hell, go to Washington, D.C.

Take a trip down south and see the way some people live. Without running water, just like a third world country.

It doesn't mean it doesn't exist just because you don't see it.
 

andreas

Iller Than Most
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
Yeah man oaksavage I am serious.. You might have a rich country, but you still have degraded as a country. The gap between rich and poor are huge. The suburbs and ghettos don't look so fine do they.

Well, in sweden we've got standards on it all.. evern our suburbs..

That's just a logical outcome of the worlds heavyest tax pressure.


And for the remark you made "The U.S is by far the richest nation in the world"

that us total and utter BS.. Norway is the worlds richest country.. there's that
 

o-a-ksavage

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
ManDAmyth said:
Corporations fund the campaigns of pretty much every canidate that runs for office.

Why? Because the politicians give out favors and fuck over the corporations who don't pay them campaign money. The corporations don't run the country, the politicians do, that's why the corporations HAVE to bribe these power-thirsty beaurocrats.

Tobacco is legal. Marijuana isn't. Why? Those in power wouldn't benefit from it.

Marijuana should be legal. I actually agree that the government would have made tobacco illegal if not for the fact that they can suck the tobacco companies dry for tax money. But they absolutely could benefit from marijuana being legal. They would tax it the same way they do tobacco.

How can capitalism work when it's overan by Nepotism?

Capitalism wipes out nepotism, racial and gender discrimination, and every other type of unfair hiring for the sole reason that the company will do, and because of competition must do, whatever it can to make the most money. If you are the owner of a business and you hire your incompetent brother over the intelligent, able black woman, your competitor will hire her instead and gain a huge advantage over you, and your imcompetent brother will lose your business tons of money.

I really suggest you take a trip to the South Side of Chicago, go to Baltimore. Hell, go to Washington, D.C. Take a trip down south and see the way some people live. Without running water, just like a third world country. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist just because you don't see it.[/

I'm from Oakland mayne, we have some pretty grimy parts ourselves. But I've read books about cities like East St. Louis and shit, which is the closest you're gonna get to third world in America, I know what exists. But the facts still are, and you can ask anyone who's been to a third world country, any area of America cannot compare to the desperate poverty and hopelessness of those countries.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
There's nothing to argue about the way business is runn or using their influences and money to promote what a companie or corporation is doing cq. exploiting. I wont always be fair indeed, but when a business becomes big it There's a difference to political agenda's that incorporate their influences for their own benefits. Trust me, most corporations are the least to worry about, but...


Let me give you a runn down of US politics starting with some names, not all;


James Baker III, former United States Secretary of State under George H. W. Bush, Staff member under Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, Carlyle Senior Counselor

George H. W. Bush, former U.S. President, Senior Advisor to the Carlyle Asia Advisory Board from April 1998 to October 2003.

Frank C. Carlucci, former United States Secretary of Defense from 1987 to 1989, chairman emeritus and currently strategic business advisor

Richard Darman, former Director of the U.S. Office of Management and Budget under George H. W. Bush, Senior Advisor and Managing Director of The Carlyle Group

William Kennard, former chairman of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission, Carlyle's Managing Director in the Telecommunications & Media Group

Arthur Levitt, chairman of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) under President Bill Clinton, Carlyle Senior Advisor

John Major, former British Prime Minister, Chairman, Carlyle Europe until May 2004, and other posts to the present

Frank McKenna, Canadian ambassador (effective March 1, 2005) to the United States, former member of Carlyle's Canadian advisory board

Mack McLarty, President of Kissinger McLarty Associates, Carlyle Senior Advisor
Anand Panyarachun, former premier of Thailand

Fidel Ramos, former president of the Philippines, Carlyle Asia Advisor Board Member until the board was disbanded in February 2004

Park Tae Joon, former prime minister of South Korea

Colin Powell, former United States Secretary of State

Alice Albright, daughter of ex-Secretary of State Madeleine Albright

The Saudi Arabian relatives of Osama bin Laden (not Osama bin Laden himself) were also minor investors in Carlyle until October 2001 when the family sold its $2.02 million investment back to the firm in light of the public controversy surrounding the bin Laden family after September 11.

Not the least of persons, but here's another few, again not all;

Paul Desmarais, Chairman of the Power Corporation of Canada
Arthur Levitt, former chairman of the SEC
Karl Otto Pöhl, former president of the Bundesbank
George Soros, international investor

No minorities either, no ordinary board members as usuall, the people are power players with interesting contacts and influencing a global network of other powerplayers you dont ever hear about....about 550 of take up the board of members...the investors...mostly billionaires and funds...

In case you haven't figured it out, Im talking about the "iron triangle", the military-industrial complex based on capitalism, made possible by the Bush administration called the Carlyle group, a "private" equity investment firm. Founded by 4 attorneys Carlyle employs 240 people, as opposed to the 10 or 12 typical of most private-equity firms. It has ownership stakes in 164 companies, which collectively employ more than 70,000 people. They focus on (1)LBO's/HLT's(bootstraps), companies aquired by debt or borrowed money, mostly ,(2)Venture capital, a vehicle that invests in initialising businesses for a above avarage profit returns, but is at high risk. Mostly the venturing capitalist aims for a three year term to harvest the profit befor a company could go down (20-90% of these ventures go down the drain with investors wondering where all the money wennt to exactly, but it's a vehicle and easy money for powerplayers).(3) real estate and (4) high yield investments, a corporate debt vehicle mostly in the form of bonds that sells when interest rates still create revenue but (for example) the company is still putting people on the street.

People at high ranks with the bush administration and any other republican party from 1989 till now has been affiliated with this NWO. Their only concerns has been to enrich themselves by using their political assets for exploits of carlyle, or set up a situation by political power to create an exploit for one of their ventures with their main interest is "hawking" into aerospace and defense, although they claim it's a very small part of the firm ( take notice that these industries are indeed very small because were talking specialised labs and test facilities which isnt a major industry because their always government related/protected. They're mostly considered terrorists cells when their not government related of course because what they produce are basicaly weapons by one means or another).

The other assets of the company are Automotive, Consumer & Industrial, Energy & Power, Healthcare, Real Estate, Technology & Business Services, Telecommunication & Media, and Transportation. You can include firms/holdings like;

Dr.pepper/Seven up bottling company, Disneyland Europe, Le figaro - French newspaper, Philip Morris (they love this one), Qinetic - recently privatized UK defence company, Voight Aircraft (B1/B2 bomber manufacturing), United Defense - Paladin Gun & Bradley vehicles, magnavox - Radar imagery, DGE - cruise missile maps, magnetek/IT group/ EG&G technical services ( respectivly nuclear, chemical and biological decontamination specialists), Fiat Aerospace - untill recently under state control by the Iatlian military agency.

I can go on with the names but you get the idea, politicians all over the world had or have power over these companies, constructed for a reason that has never served the public but takes more than half of the nations financial deposit. Not even starting on arguments for cutting budgets on social political activities, you pay tax and you deserve health insurrance that anyone can pay for or is covered by when unemplyed. It's not free in our country but it's cheap compared to america and that's not because our doctors are retarded. I would hate it if the reasons of any government was to cut on such basic neccesities for sake of their own PERSONAL wealth via means of war or how bush call it " security and protection"

now the practices;

The IT Group, a company that cleans up hazardous materials and won a very lucrative contract to clean up the Hart Senate Building in Washington, D.C., which had been tainted by anthrax.

I find that rather suspect...well you do the math

George W. Bush, also knows Carlyle well. The group found him a job in February 1990, while his father occupied the White House: administrator for Caterair, a Texas company specialized in aerial catering. The episode does not figure in the president's official biography. When George W. Bush left Caterair in 1994, before becoming Governor of Texas, the company was in bad shape.

This man is you president... He has a record list of companies "he" helped down the drain. But it wasn't his imcompetence that actually killed those companies but the strategy on venture capital marketing to diminish or cut budgets on a firm to raise the liqiudity in order to sell it. This means firing lots of people and probably sell it for a mere profit to an aquinted investor when the product fits within the carlyle's hawkish preferences (defence and all technology applicable to war exploits, defensive or offensive).

In case you're wondering why the fug I'm bugging you with all this is because some of you have tainted image or one sided perspective of your present situation, looking for reason why this country is going down the drain... Every month a reasonable amount of your hard earned money partly goes to finance the exploits of Carlyle industries. The whole war on Iraq is a boost to the fortune of Carlyle, because everything involved through out the process is a service by a company/firm/oem under Carlyle industries. 400.5 billion US dollars, your tax money was spend on this war at a cost of what's to come. Bush had been cutting budgets in a lot of fields to open up account that services in favor of Carlyle, and has continued doing so during the war...again this is your tax money. He asked the parlement to start this war, more clearly, asked for the funding of the operation which was eventualy 400.5 billion dollar. Cuts start in 2004, now if you havent been aware but the US owes China 650 billion US$...do the math...the total currency transactions in the world amounts to US$600 trillion and the USA accounts for 45% of these total currency transactions; and the American share of these US$600 trillion is 40% of this amount. There's a whole story to this but where it comes down to eventualy is that the US also owes 45% of the 600 trillion US$ against a US production capacity of teeny 1% of the huge debt.

So you just gave a great deal of 400.5$ billion into the hands of a private company, Carlyle, under control of the Bush registration....

I think your either getting robbed or leeched here.

Someting more recent, the senior Bush has spearheaded the group's successful entrance into the South Korean market some time ago, paving the way for buyouts of Korea's KorAm Bank and Mercury, a telecommunications equipment company. For the business to be successful, stability between North and South Korea is critical. Now go do the math again...

Eisenhower warned about “the iron triangle”, the euphemism that is employed in a number of different areas. But among the areas that it’s employed is this confluence of business and politics that Eisenhower was talking about when he referred to the military-industrial complex. This is a combination of power and influence that is very dangerous and can result in foreign policy decisions that are based solely on monetary concerns of very few people and this is just what's happening today.

How that for capitalism oak? Nothing personal but this capitalism isnt going nowhere and you're not aware of what's really going on. America's is going down the drain, I mean, Bush can just step up when america's is worthless while his little imperium legally walks away with your money...
 
T

The Bastard

Guest
andreas said:
Well now "the konductor".
Your country has degenarated into a state of pure shit man. (not figurativly speaking ofcourse).
But you have many slums, shitty degenarated parts and low standards when it comes to rental flats, ofiicial building and populated places.
and whataya ya know,those same places are the only reason you even know what hip hop is today, funny right?
 

andreas

Iller Than Most
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
Uh, what about it. I haven't said things cannot blossom in those surcomstances. I just say you'r country aint all that pretty as oaksavage claims. You have over 40 million living under the poverty line. That's just the statement I'm making.
 

o-a-ksavage

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
andreas said:
Uh, what about it. I haven't said things cannot blossom in those surcomstances. I just say you'r country aint all that pretty as oaksavage claims. You have over 40 million living under the poverty line. That's just the statement I'm making.

I'm not tryin to paint some pretty picture. The world is fucked up in general thanks to bad philosophy, and as a result of that same philosophy the US catches flack for all the wrong reasons. The rest of the world has nothing to say to the US about right and wrong-- nothing. The US is the only country ever established on the right principles, which are individual rights. The US set an example for the world and has carried the world on its shoulders. If the US goes, the world goes. Again I'll recommend a book that breaks shit down on the real tip. Though this book is underground and you've likely never heard of it, there was a poll that asked Americans what their most influential book was and it came in second behind only the bible. The book is called Atlas Shrugged.
 
T

The Bastard

Guest
o-a-ksavage said:
I'm not tryin to paint some pretty picture. The world is fucked up in general thanks to bad philosophy, and as a result of that same philosophy the US catches flack for all the wrong reasons. The rest of the world has nothing to say to the US about right and wrong-- nothing. The US is the only country ever established on the right principles, which are individual rights. The US set an example for the world and has carried the world on its shoulders. If the US goes, the world goes.
glad u said it be4 i did
 

andreas

Iller Than Most
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
What the fuck man. DO you really think so. You'r blind to everything else that's going on. To think that you are the worlds bigger brother that takes care of everything else and that we, the smaller children needs management (even though we don't want it and you have to force it upon us) that image is not just faulty but damn ignorant.

Furthermore, you doing it for principles, right and wrong, indiuvidual rights. Hmm, really?? I fail to see that.

Iraq for example, was that war waged for the right principles? nah man, it was a buisness thing. Get the oil. Get the controll. And then say that it was to liberate the iraqi people that you wouldn't even have pissed on if it wasen't for the oil.

Go liberate the North Koreans, they've already sayd they have nukes. And they have a dictatorship far more surpressing then Iraq EVER had.

Come off it guys. Ignorance is the biggest and most dangerous treat of all. And this shit is igorant as hell.

Come off it

This sound like an uneducated point of view and that you have NO clue about other cultures exept from what youve been tought by your military.
Do you lack the ability to think indepentently and source-criticly?

You've got to wake up, Take in a deep breath of air and smell the coffea and open your eyes and ears to the rest of the world.

Please
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
o-a-ksavage said:
I'm not tryin to paint some pretty picture. The world is fucked up in general thanks to bad philosophy, and as a result of that same philosophy the US catches flack for all the wrong reasons.

Philosophy of the rich you mean, and america doesn't get the beating for it, your republican government does, not the republican voters but the politicians. I dunno if you've read my former post but it's all economie, philosophy was something we did halfway past the last century. If you read it and understood you'd also understand that the republicans didnt even initiated most of the crap were talking about today...It's not political anymore but industrial driven politics and at the current situation one dominates the other. I might be mistaken on the philosophy thing here so you might want to elaborate.

The restof the world has nothing to say to the US about right and wrong-- nothing.
The US is the only country ever established on the right principles, which are individual rights.

Elaborate please, what do you mean "the right" principles ? The consititution ? And based on what do you think that the US is the only country that has proper principles, indiviual or not. Furthermore it would be very naieve to rely on them for being the proper or correct principles because lots of harm has been done under your flag and the law and rights devoted to mankind didnt help jack shit, overruled by government priorities.

The US set an example for the world and has carried the world on its shoulders.

It was yeah, but eisenhower already saw the dangers coming ahead, dont live in the past, make your own assumptions and do the math.

If the US goes, the world goes.

We noticed, the euro wennt up and the down jones, nasdaq fellt the heat, it was only untill they relieved bits of the oh so expensive euro in order for the dollar to make profit again. All that shit is relative and in case you didnt read, China is taking over massivly so if the US goes down then China takes over ( if not before ) and all our children would be "ni-hou" on your ass instead of "hello".

Again I'll recommend a book that breaks shit down on the real tip. Though this book is underground and you've likely never heard of it, there was a poll that asked Americans what their most influential book was and it came in second behind only the bible. The book is called Atlas Shrugged.

The theme of Atlas Shrugged is that independent, rational thought is the motor that powers the world but the things right now are far from being rational, not even starting on independent perspectives since were talking about a hive of "politicians" (read corporate business men). He also states by this book that humans act/create when human interferance is absent under force, thus releasing themselves from the leeching source ( refered to as "looters" ( which in this case would be the consensus behind the republican party). Again, this book isnt about america, its a world philosophy that covers the whole consensus but there are considerations that make the book appear political regarding socialism and communism. The book itself and the context however are not fundamentally political, that all in the eye of the beholder. If you really read it it's actually for a big deal anti-american but indirectly as its dismissive against believes of human faith in a God or a higher being. In this case it's anti-christian...Wanna know how shit starts out then read upon Globalization in No Logo by Naomi Klein and we can chat about it some more ON TOPIC.

I think you're living upon ancient facts, which are partly correct but lots has happened in the last 70 years, especialy the last 40 which makes a lot of those old facts stand outside the current context.

FYI or if when to lazy to read, here is a links to a 48minute documentary regarding my former post, this material wont be broadcasted in the US for good reasons.

Exposed: The Carlyle Group
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/stream...N DRIEHOEK in realvideo BREEDBAND tot 500 kbs

or

http://videos.informationclearinghouse.info/sb.20040125.rm
 

o-a-ksavage

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
andreas said:
What the fuck man. DO you really think so. You'r blind to everything else that's going on. To think that you are the worlds bigger brother that takes care of everything else and that we, the smaller children needs management (even though we don't want it and you have to force it upon us) that image is not just faulty but damn ignorant.

Alright, man, this is going to be my last response to you in this thread. What you just claimed I said is basically the opposite of what I believe. This is a perfect example of the philosophy I'm talking about. I say the US was the only country founded on moral principles, you hear moral and assume I mean sacrificing to the world. I say the US has set an example for the world and has carried the world on its shoulders, you take that as me saying we've showered the world with unearned and undeserved gifts and made it our job to take care of everyone. The only moral purpose of a government is to protect the individual rights of its civilians, i.e., to protect them from physical force. Any time the government gives tax money to another country, or sacrifices the lives of troops to give another country "democracy", or anything of the like, that is immoral. This is not to be mistaken with voluntary aid from US civilians to things like the Tsunami victims through private charities, which is perfectly fine because it is not being taken through physical force, but given out of the generosity and free choice of individuals.

Furthermore, you doing it for principles, right and wrong, indiuvidual rights. Hmm, really?? I fail to see that.
Iraq for example, was that war waged for the right principles? nah man, it was a buisness thing. Get the oil. Get the controll.

America was FOUNDED on the right principles, I am not claiming that our government upholds those principles, in fact, we have drifted a long way away from them. We should not have gone after Iraq, we should have destroyed Iran, who is the primary sponsor of terrorism. Because we have not and clearly are not going to, I guaruntee there will be another terrorist attack and possibly a huge war years ahead, as it is the Islamist nations' goal to forcefully spread Islam and murder any non-believers.

And then say that it was to liberate the iraqi people that you wouldn't even have pissed on if it wasen't for the oil.
Go liberate the North Koreans, they've already sayd they have nukes. And they have a dictatorship far more surpressing then Iraq EVER had.

Again, I do not advocate liberating anybody, that is not our government's job. Their job is to protect us from force, not sacrifice us to give the world unearned gifts. The administration has adopted that stance that our job is to bring "democracy" to Iraq because like the rest of the world, they believe that sacrifice is our moral obligation, and they appease the nations who accuse us of protecting our own self-interest. And the war was not for oil. We have not and will not take any of that oil.

Come off it guys. Ignorance is the biggest and most dangerous treat of all. And this shit is igorant as hell.
Come off it
This sound like an uneducated point of view and that you have NO clue about other cultures exept from what youve been tought by your military.
Do you lack the ability to think indepentently and source-criticly?
You've got to wake up, Take in a deep breath of air and smell the coffea and open your eyes and ears to the rest of the world.

Nothing you have said demonstrates any kind of superior knowledge or understanding. I could catch the bus to Berkeley and talk to every hippy bum that didn't get past high school and they would say the same exact stuff you have. You claim independent-mindedness, but you hear a new point of view and say, "damn, every Michael Moore movie and everything I've heard on the news and read in the papers goes against what this guy is saying, so he must be ignorant." Trust me, I am able to "think independently" and "open my eyes and ears." It's time you stop accepting the liberal dogma and do the same.
 

andreas

Iller Than Most
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
Man, I'm just gonna do a quick post here since I don't have the will to post nor the power to unweil that mask you so gladly look through.

I've NEVER stated I have "superior knowledge or understanding", you on the other hand are claiming that almost all the time in your last posts.

That's about what I'm gonna say, I don't have time for this, nor the will. And it won't do any difference either way.

I just wanna thank Formant, It's nice to see someone with some sense and some actual fact behind their words rather then quasifilosophical jimmer jammer about world grandiur.

Peace
 
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