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So I decided to have a crack at a game/movie soundtrack piece

2GooD Productions

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Not suitable for the showcase really as its soundtrack music but would love to get the opinions of some professionals. Its my first ever theme toon.
Captures the spirit of heading to war, still a WIP, just started it this evening.



There could be a future in it.
 
Last edited:
Fade

Fade

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@2GooD Productions I'm a professional soundtrack gamer architect so here's my 2 cents:

This sounds really good! The structure is there, everything seems to be in the right place. The only gripe is that of course this would sound way better if it was an actual orchestra recorded at Abbey Road studios.

But what made you get into this? This is actually something I wanted to try a few years back just for fun.

Hey have you thought of making a video with this music? Just put some Call of Duty gameplay over it or something.
 
2GooD Productions

2GooD Productions

Im back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1688
bthis!
war
bfights!
aotb!
biu!
bthat!
That Hans Zimmer video I posted on @thedreampolice thread, watched that show and was blown away by it. Everything about was just amazing, so thats whats really inspiring me to get into this. Now I have decent headphones I can do the mixing necessary with orchestral music to get it to even sound half authentic.
Last night I just had an urge to have a go, and thats the structure I got laid down as a template to add to.
Been doing some work today on it, so its different from the one posted here, its evolved and it will keep evolving till I get it where I want it, making me a fucking shit tonne of money before I die hahahahaha.

Never thought about doing a video, never got into video editing, just seemed like too much to learn along with the music.

I would like to put on a show like in that Hanz Zimmer video one day, thats my new goal. Whether I achieve it, who knows, but I sure as hell am going to have a go.
 
Fade

Fade

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Yeah Hans has so much dope shit it's incredible.

If you want to put it on Youtube let me know, I can make a simple video for you.

Plus if you keep making stuff like this then I can sample it!
 
2GooD Productions

2GooD Productions

Im back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1688
bthis!
war
bfights!
aotb!
biu!
bthat!
I have just had an idea for a video. It starts with 911, then the patriot act, the impending police states around the world, globalism running rampant and the loss of freedoms and liberties. Its put together from news footage, lots of misery and despair, like the inside of my head hahahaha. You gone done gave me an idea.
I was thinking of joking that I was making music like this so I could sample myself, just for a laugh.

As for Hans, The Dark Night Theme, Time from Inception and Interstellar are fucking amazing music.
 
2GooD Productions

2GooD Productions

Im back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1688
bthis!
war
bfights!
aotb!
biu!
bthat!
thedreampolice said:
How in depth of analysis do you want me to do on this? I write A LOT of this style. How much music theory do you know? Can you site read? This is a DEEP world.
Click to expand...
Many years ago I was enquiring about getting music placements in movie soundtracks, I was told point blank back then that I needed a music degree to go any further. I know that this is a very deep area and Im barely scratching the surface. I have never learned music except what I taught myself through trial and error and using my ears when listening to music from people I admire and wish to take what I like about them and integrate into my own style.
I can barely play triads and diatonic chords, but I later add thickness to the chords. I have an understanding that once I have found the chord progression that improvising within the scale of the chords it opens a whole world of possibilities.

But yeah after watching that Hans Zimmer concert, I thought fuck it, the proof is in the pudding right, so just went ahead and tried it. I dont think its too bad, just needs a bit more work.
 
afamousrapper

afamousrapper

I make sound waves....
Battle Points: 1
2GooD Productions said:
Not suitable for the showcase really as its soundtrack music but would love to get the opinions of some professionals. Its my first ever theme toon.
Captures the spirit of heading to war, still a WIP, just started it this evening.



There could be a future in it.
Click to expand...

This is dope, I like the panning done- adds nice depth. Maybe a lil more reverb on the "ooohh" to make em spacey- just a touch. Very epic feel, like some ish about to go down.
 
thedreampolice

thedreampolice

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Ok here we go please don't take this as harsh at all, it takes a LOT of work and knowledge to get in to this genre. Also I want to encourage you to dive in man you should go for it and learn. Han's Zimmer has been doing this for 40+ years and still considers himself a student. Here is what I hear

#1 the sounds in general are week all around. Nothing sounds real AT ALL. That intro cello has zero dynamics in its playing. Orchestral instruments in general are all about constant subtle variations, so each instrument should have that.

#2 The choir is really not good sounds like a keyboard from the 90's

#3 The drums are not orchestral in anyway, it shows very much that you are coming from a hiphop background

#4 The mix is pretty rough, nothing sounds huge. The percussion is all over the place. When I write for orchestra I keep the inclosed picture open at all times to make sure I cover everything.

orchestra-layout-instruments.jpg


#5 there are these sudden builds without good transitions. Im not sure WHY things are changing. You need to give me clues along the way. Kind of like foreshadowing.

#6 The sounds in general don't go together. Typically you would create a sound pallete before you start a song like this and it feels random. Those templates can be thousands of tracks. See this video on how to build a template



#7 there is a thing in music called a motif a motif "is a short musical phrase, a salient recurring figure, musical fragment or succession of notes that has some special importance in or is characteristic of a composition:" Like a central melodic element that a listener can go back to. I like to call them anchors, it gives the listener familiarity with the piece. The only "theme" I can here is the one you use throughout which to my ears is c - g# - g. thats not quite enough for a motif so the listener gets lost.



Again, this may sound like a lot but its the kind of stuff you need to be thinking about. This field is WICKED competitive. So you need to be on top of your game at all times. I am not trying to be discouraging, rather the opposite!

The easiest way I know of to get better sounds is to get composer cloud http://www.soundsonline.com/composercloud for $20-30 a month. Its a great deal and will up your tone game a lot.

And I want to say this about myself I have a master degree from Berklee college of music, studied and wrote music for years. Had a career in studio design. Still tour in a live band. Take upright bass lessons from a teacher who plays in the Lincoln Symphony Orchestra and has played with Ben Folds, Weird Al just to name a few. I took the Hans Zimmer classes and take composing lessons from my friend who was a PHD in it and teaches it at the college level AND I AM STILL A COMPLETE NOVICE. This stuff is really really deep. Its wonderful and amazing and will open your eyes to how music really works. But it is a lifetime of study. Im trilled to see you going down this road and I know you can do it! If I can help on your journey in anyway I am happy to man!

Quick Edit https://vi-control.net/portal/ its a fantastic community for this topic.
 
Last edited:
2GooD Productions

2GooD Productions

Im back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1688
bthis!
war
bfights!
aotb!
biu!
bthat!
@thedreampolice now thats what Im talking about, thats some really great advice and hints.
I have been listening to it a few times and realise the drums are way too loud.

#1. Im limited to trying to use a keyboard to try and imitate the playing of instruments. This hugely limits my ability to add dynamics like fret noises, vibrato and other after touch type effects. But yes this is hugely important, and I have overlooked that. Will have to spend a lot more time on even the most simple parts to add texture and depth and subtle variation.

#2. The choir is Akai Classic Choir refill for reason, most of the other sounds come from the orkestra refill that comes with reason. To be honest the Akai vocals are the best sounding choir samples I own. They seemed to fit the idea I had of war music. Would love to work with real musicians and a real orchestra and choir one day.

#3. Hahahaha, I really agree with this, I have used orchestral drum sounds but they are so loud in the mix in a hip hop way that its ruined them. I did intend to have something a bit more modern near the end in a fusion of classical and current, thats my aim. I have noticed Zimmers fusion of orchestral and modern and think it really works well. But hey, that mans a fucking living legend in the world of legends. What better inspiration though right?

#4. I have probably put about 4 or 5 hours into it so far, so nothing is really concrete, Im still sketching out the structure and this is why I asked for feedback, this is much better feedback than I was expecting and I really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. I had a mental image of that orchestral mix placement after seeing it years ago, but yes, I should have it open every time I do a mix until I know it for sure, not just guessing.

#5. This is my attempt to keep things interesting and evolving, I plan to extend the beginning and make it take a lot longer to build, and to actually build to something. I like the way Zimmer goes from big and epic then back down to quiet and subtle, something I didnt pull off so well hahahaha.

#6. Pretty much sums up how much effort I put into selecting them. Will bookmark that video and view it as soon as I get a chance. Never thought about a template, I always just start from scratch.

#7. Ahhh, I know what you mean here. Its like the few notes from the Empires Theme Song that you instantly recognise, or the one from Zimmers "Time" from the inception soundtrack, that carries through into other tracks from the same soundtrack. I sort of wanted the first few notes that came in to establish that, but ended up with the chord progression you mentioned which is more boring than the cello for Pachebels Canon. Will have to add more variation to that.

Getting new sounds is a priority for me, Im going to move away from reason and start using cubase and vst's, I much prefer using cubase for mixing, sounds is something that a lot of people say about my music, and will probably subscribe to that site once the studio is up and running. Should have spoke to somebody like you before I started remoddelling our studio. But most of the work is done now.

Saw a Ben Folds performance a couple weeks ago, Im listening to so much classical for the past few months. Came across this...


Anyway, thanks for taking the time, I really appreciate it and Im going to take it all on board,
 
afamousrapper

afamousrapper

I make sound waves....
Battle Points: 1
thedreampolice said:
Ok here we go please don't take this as harsh at all, it takes a LOT of work and knowledge to get in to this genre. Also I want to encourage you to dive in man you should go for it and learn. Han's Zimmer has been doing this for 40+ years and still considers himself a student. Here is what I hear

#1 the sounds in general are week all around. Nothing sounds real AT ALL. That intro cello has zero dynamics in its playing. Orchestral instruments in general are all about constant subtle variations, so each instrument should have that.

#2 The choir is really not good sounds like a keyboard from the 90's

#3 The drums are not orchestral in anyway, it shows very much that you are coming from a hiphop background

#4 The mix is pretty rough, nothing sounds huge. The percussion is all over the place. When I write for orchestra I keep the inclosed picture open at all times to make sure I cover everything.

View attachment 5142

#5 there are these sudden builds without good transitions. Im not sure WHY things are changing. You need to give me clues along the way. Kind of like foreshadowing.

#6 The sounds in general don't go together. Typically you would create a sound pallete before you start a song like this and it feels random. Those templates can be thousands of tracks. See this video on how to build a template



#7 there is a thing in music called a motif a motif "is a short musical phrase, a salient recurring figure, musical fragment or succession of notes that has some special importance in or is characteristic of a composition:" Like a central melodic element that a listener can go back to. I like to call them anchors, it gives the listener familiarity with the piece. The only "theme" I can here is the one you use throughout which to my ears is c - g# - g. thats not quite enough for a motif so the listener gets lost.



Again, this may sound like a lot but its the kind of stuff you need to be thinking about. This field is WICKED competitive. So you need to be on top of your game at all times. I am not trying to be discouraging, rather the opposite!

The easiest way I know of to get better sounds is to get composer cloud http://www.soundsonline.com/composercloud for $20-30 a month. Its a great deal and will up your tone game a lot.

And I want to say this about myself I have a master degree from Berklee college of music, studied and wrote music for years. Had a career in studio design. Still tour in a live band. Take upright bass lessons from a teacher who plays in the Lincoln Symphony Orchestra and has played with Ben Folds, Weird Al just to name a few. I took the Hans Zimmer classes and take composing lessons from my friend who was a PHD in it and teaches it at the college level AND I AM STILL A COMPLETE NOVICE. This stuff is really really deep. Its wonderful and amazing and will open your eyes to how music really works. But it is a lifetime of study. Im trilled to see you going down this road and I know you can do it! If I can help on your journey in anyway I am happy to man!

Quick Edit https://vi-control.net/portal/ its a fantastic community for this topic.
Click to expand...

bro ypu went in but solid info. I like this site man a community of people helping one another. imma read this again wen off work, good stuff!
 
thedreampolice

thedreampolice

A backwards poet writes inverse.
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
bthis!
@2GooD Productions I also want to say that this is a fantastic first attempt. Much better than my early stuff, so keep it up.

As far as playing on the keyboard with expression, the mod wheel will become your best friend here. Check this out



I did finally have to start writing in another program because I hit the wall with Reason and Orchestra music. Mainly because I needed a score editor and Reason doesn't have one. Not sure what version of Reason you are on but I swear by these two rack extensions for scoring in Reason.

ProjectSAM Orchestral Sampler

Just updated to 1.2: free 550 MB additional content including epic drums and orchestra + choir ensemble! ProjectSAM Orchestral Sampler is the light but powerful selection of ensembles and instruments taken from ProjectSAM’s renowned Symphobia Series. The Symphobia Series sound libraries are...
www.reasonstudios.com www.reasonstudios.com

StringWERK - Studio Strings

StringWERK, a highly inspiring and authentic string section for Reason, introducing a new level of realism and playability to Rack Extensions. Bringing a new warmth and intimacy to your tracks, StringWERK is easy to use and captures perfectly the sound and playing of a small premier string...
www.reasonstudios.com www.reasonstudios.com

I do most of this type of work in Logic now and use Reason/Live/Maschine as creative playgrounds. I mix everything in Logic now, just to change my thinking from writing, to mixing.

Also I would get to as many orchestral concerts as you can, almost every city has a lot for cheap or free. I have also been totally surprised at how awesome musicians in this world are, especially to outsiders like ourselves that come from other genres.

On another note, I have been a Ben Folds fan for like 15 years and finally got to see him last year and it blew my mind. One of the greatest artist of our time.
 
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