Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
cewl, dude hits on breakcore!
Sick of the music industry. Jaded? I sure as hell am.
- Thread starter God
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warzone round 1 voting begins in...
God
Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
Damn, this has become a pretty cool disussion on the industry. I think I have to respond to a couple people and give you some input into why this happens. I basically copied the quotes and replied. Then I throw some knowledge at the end.
Relic(The fake one not the real one who posts on the next page):
“honeslty... i really have no sympathy for u... ur one of those cats in the industry i wanna punch in the jaw... got ur foot in the door and breakin up niggas... decidin niggas' fates... thats wats wrong with LIFE in general, everyone chasin the fukkin money, fukk a relationship, brother/sisterhood, freindship or family... just get me my money... everybody schemin... Hip Hop??? no, MUSIC is fukkin dead... my love for beats n rhymes keeps me here... Illmuzic is Church and ur at Confession... thats all this is... oh yea... eL Oh eL...”
Response:
Ok, well here's my response. A kid with above average intelligence decides to go against the grain of what his family/neighborhood expectations. Moves to one of the super cutthroat music capitals of America (the others being Nashville or NYC.) The one we're talking about is LA.
You have no money, but you hustle a connection and get your foot in the door. You're broke most of the time, while you see well-connected dickheads that went to Stanford get promoted from the mailroom – and they have no common sense. This is good, because you can hustle the idiots. You hustle and prove yourself – then you get promoted. The cycle continues. Because you are adept at office politics and can also prove that you bring your label money with acts or with ideas, you keep getting promoted. In the meantime you have to guard yourself against the haters – which are plenty.
The money comes. Trust me – when success and money comes, you want more of it. I roll my eyes whenever I hear a cat that says it's about “the music” all the time and not the money. The thing is, if you come from nothing and end up making money, your whole attitude/life changes. You were some poor kid on the street riding a BMX bike and now you're rollin' in a Benz. This is a business, you need to make the paper. Otherwise do music as a hobby and hope someone discovers you. Many of the artists I hear are derivative of other artists...
And I sympathize with many hiphopheads on this forum. Guess what – those really stupid mailroom “colleagues” I used to work with way back in the olden days. They sign acts now (probably). Except they have no ear for the talent. So you wonder why the industry's in the shitter? Someone finds a hot original sound, everyone copies it (to make their track-record good) instead of listening for new shit that you've never heard before.
In order to make moves and change things in the industry, you have to be adept at internal politics at a label – remember, there are still a lot of people making a lot of money in the biz while the ship is sinking. Think of a heroin addict that still shoots up H, but knows they're dying. That's what the biz is like.
Chrono:
The music industry isn't so different than any other Industry. The most ruthless and cuthroat are the few remaining champions.. like 1937 gangsterism. You don't see Donald Trump keeping the most respectable people hired.. it's those that can kick and punch their way to the top. Befriend with a welcoming smile, then stab in the back repeatedly till every drip is met! That's the respect of the Industry! It's the nature of the beast.
And I totally disagree with it because it is as hollow as a lie and it's path leads only to destruction.. but so does anger and hate.
in the words of Club Nouvea.. " It's a Cold, Cold World"
Response:
Yeah. Well, every office culture can be cutthroat for a person that is motivated at getting to the top. If I was a banker on Wall St., I would do the same thing. If I was working for an oil company, I would be cutthroat too. No holds barred, I get it.
The thing is that music was an emotional thing when we were first introduced to it. That's why this was a conundrum for me personally. You market “rebellion” to every generation. That was the rebellion you thought was real when you were listening to shit. Kids these days think 50 Cent is just as “real” and “rebellious” as NWA was. He's not.
afriquedeluxe
Damn, its good that we get all this info about how mad the industry is, but I guess it dont really hit you till you are there yourself. Like Chrono said, it aint the only industry that's cut throat, there are many others besides the entertainment biz.
Mr G. I have to wonder, are there ever any attempts by the majors at getting something real? Infact, what makes it real? Don't the "real" artists somewhere along the line of getting signed turn into scams too with all the PR and label hype?
Response:
Yes, 'real' artists get signed. They generally are unique and define a “generation” or a specific “sound.” After the type of music is defined, the thought is that “emo is going to prevail for the next X years,” or “Hardcore gangsta rap is going to prevail for the next X years” or “grunge is hot now, let's go to Seattle and sign every bumfuck under the cloudy sky.” Let's sign more bands that sound like Fall Out Boy or rappers that are like 50 Cent. The lemming A&Rs that you worked with in the mailroom follow because they are pretty stupid, and contribute to the blandness of music.
See, where you buck the trend is when you keep in touch with the underground. Here's a true story – mid nineties, everyone was into grunge or signing shit alt-rock acts. But the underground hardcore (it's like metal, but with more screaming) was coming up through the cracks. Reps that signed the early hardcore bands and their rap/metal hybrids hit pay-dirt 5 years later when their acts, which they signed to a cost-effective deal, finally brought in the money. Examples: Deftones, Limp Bizkit, HedPe (one hit), KoRn, etc.
I'm surprised that my “colleagues” get caught up in their own hype that they're responsible for. I tell anyone that wants to sign bands - “Think of what's going to be hot in 3-5 years.” Not what's hot right now- if you're in it for the “art.” As a rep, sign what's underground now, and hope it's going to make headway for you if you can hold on to the act long enough.
What is NOT underground are underground rappers that try to sound like commercial rap on the radio but call themselves underground. What is good underground is artistically groundbreaking shit, like El-P. The thing is, I can't go to El-P and say, I want you to produce this cat, and then we're going to put it on Z100 or on ClearChannel stations across the US. That's cuz El-P is using his technique, but it ain't “pop” yet. The melodies aren't there in his synth riffs or weird-ass sounds that are mainstream enough. But he's breaking new ground. Someone derivative of him, or inspired by his work, with a more mainstream mindset will take his ideas and run with it.
Labels are hungry for new acts, the thing is that labels also want stuff that sells. Check out my post on the Jimmy Iovine interview – he pretty much nails it. With radio consolidation, etc., you have to be a good label boss to have everything work out. That's why I wish I was working for Interscope, or could kick my boss from his overly-exagerrated post modern Danish furniture styled, metal and glass office with expensive cubist art and his seven figure expense account and bloated salary to run a label that cross-pollinates artists with great “in-house” producers. Think what Iovine did with Pharrell – he said “let's have you work with the Hives” and some of the idea worked. Or Iovine going to Timbaland and say, “produce Nelly Furtado's album, I think something good can come from it.” Multiplatinum album.
You gotta have that dialogue and make your label like a team, where everyone is working together – not islands unto themselves.
Remember, every artist thinks their shit is hot, even when it isn't – so assess your music dispassionately after putting your heart and passion into it.
Sincock
Do you think, maybe, all these scams, (ie crap music with no substance marketed to tyhe lowest common denominator), etc are one of the reasons the music industry is going down the toilet and that you're just one of the few turd stains clinging stubbornly to the bowl?
Response:
Clive Davis is a turd stain on the toilet. I think there is way too much overhead and not enough digital outreach. I KNOW that reps don't know that EVERY version of DRM they are conned into buying the license to will be hacked by some kid.
No, each generation believes its music is the “shit.” Talk to a high school kid that you think Atreyu sucks and they will try to kick your ass and call you an old fart. Or tell some high school girl that Avril Lavigne is crap. She'll tell you to fuck off. True, other music from other generations are respected, but hell - when you're 13 years old - you THINK Panic! At the Disco really is the shit.
The reason? The general population that buys pop music doesn't know better. They really don't give a shit – if the melody's good, it's generally inoffensive (unless meant to be offensive as a marketing ploy for publicity) and available on iTunes or your local Wal-Mart, then they don't give a fuck. As long as the lyrics are about something common people identify with, like “love”, you're rolling in cash.
For discriminating music listeners, like the people on this forum – this is a problem. The thing is, I swear, Timbaland and Akon's ghost-production teams got it right with the techno synths in pop/rap music out now.
I heard the same techno/synth/rap sound back in 1999 from some underground cats in L.A. I specifically remember a friend of mine working at a label said that this was going to be the new shit in hiphop/RnB. It was a techno synth lead playing a cool riff, over and over, like trance techno lead riff but in a hip-hop style. Then it went into a small arpeggio for the chorus. It was hot and the rappers flowing over it were hot, good backpacker flow on it.
When he brought the CD to his boss to sign the act, or at least bring the producer to meet with label cats and work with him and cross-pollinate ideas and artists- his boss told him to basically fuck off – because that “sound” wasn't hot at the time.
Sorry, but last time I fucking checked – you pay A&R to scout for new talent right?
Ahem, then you started hearing shit like Lil' Jon using the techno synth, Timbaland, Danja, and Akon's stuff a couple years later. It's the ubiquitous pulsating synth in Chris Brown's music as well as that fat kid produced by JR Rotem (I have a brain fart) with the hit “Take you There”. Oh yeah, Sean Kingston. It's the lush synth in Kanye West's “Flashing Lights.”
The guy could have signed one of the first producers with that style back then - was the world ready for it? With the right PR you could make the world ready. Was his boss a dumbass?
Yes, he was a dumbass. The producer that worked in that style is probably clawing his eyes out right now.
Again, a lot of the bosses in the industry are old, they're concerned about saving their asses til retirement instead of sticking their neck out. Good bosses are few and far between. Management skills are lacking in the industry, and there are a few cats I truly respect that run their divisions in a great way.
If you want me to get more involved in this question, post it somewhere else and I'll reply.
BigD
I feel what you are saying, thing is, you gotta make money somehow and everyone and everything has a price, and if you are into the music business with morals, ethics and hi standards you gonna fuck yourself out of a lot of dollars and eventually be that guy down in the park or in the subway or metro playing the keys or guitar or sax LOL naw JK, but yeah I feel you, thing is, it's a hard world as you know but there's a lot of people would love to be in your situation, maybe its time to change careers dawg, just give me all of your contacts and put me down with the folks who can cut checks LOL
Response:
Yes, definitely have to be amoral – I highly suggest books like the “48 Laws of Power.” I can't change a career at this point, just got to figure out the next move. I'm just lucky I'm not one of the 2,000 people fired by EMI's new chief – Guy Hands (yes, that's his name.) I know a lot of cats sending out resumes. Sony keeps cuttin' people from their roster and their staff. All things are not good on Sunset Strip.
Ha – you want my Outlook file of contacts? That'll cost you... Damn it's saved my ass on more than a couple thousand times.
The Mastermind:
Are you in the music industry to get rich or just make a living and live meaningfully?
If you're in it to get rich, do what you're doing. Have a cycle of guilt trip and recovery and go on and on. Just don't look too closely at what some of that top 40 shit is doing to the kiddies out there or the guilt trips might get too much.
If it's about making a living, take a break and make a new plan. A couple of days under a tree with a note book could give a new direction. Sounds like you know the industry so you could carve out some sort of niche pushing something that means something to you.
Sounds to me like you're torn. Could make a good movie by Oliver Stone (not that I'd watch it), you know the emtpy yuppie looking for meaning vs greed is good conflict.
Can't say I could stomach what you do. But maybe that's why I'm a million miles from the music industry.
Response:
In it bc I love(d) music. Then it becomes a paper chase. You stomach things a LOT better when you're getting paid really good for it. Now, I see the possibility of change in the industry, when the young cats can politick better with the old-timers who still run shit but don't really understand change. Greed is good, but you also gotta enjoy what you're doing, right?
Record labels need to adapt - and they're not.
Chrono:
regardless of everythig though it is nice that the control of music is being put back into the hand of the artist. it might catalyze a musical renaissance to expload from artists over the age of 25 who have something to say from the experience of life.. it also means that the artist's income across the board will drop.. instead of having 10 artists making millions your have thousands only making thousands and tours will be big again! Where genres will begin to merge into an orgy of creativity and inspirational juices spatter on everyone, soaking all in a new beautiful and glorious raw Musicical AGE!! haha now where's my patulli
Response:
Never before have YOU the artist had so much leverage to deal with a label. If you are astute with your web skills, you can create a comprehensive package of web site, blogs, communities, mp3s, etc., that you can professionally submit as a whole to labels. They will LOVE you for it. If you can perform, and your demos sound like shit you can actually listen to on the radio - your chances of getting signed have jumped even more.
Label cats KNOW you can do most of the shit yourself. So cop that cheap video camera, get a copy of Adobe Audition or whatever, and edit a video of yourself. PROMOTE yourself. You need to have your shit 100% together when you go talk to a person willing to invest six figures or more into your music.
Don't be so hard on the 25 years old thing – there are A LOT of artists that lie about their age. Akon claimed he was in his twenties until it was revealed whoops – he's 35. The music has to be hot, and you have to look like you fit with the music. Your image has to be hot too. You can be older, but you gotta look like a musician. Good example: Kanye's new “futuristic look.” Gwen Stefani - shit, she's 40 something and looks great.
50 Cent was "old" when he got signed to Shady/Aftermath.
The 80's are coming back people, it's sickening but cool at the same time – I have to go now. I just heard a sick track from some cats that have drums sounding like the gated kicks and snares of an 80's Genesis song.
And their hook is great.
Relic(The fake one not the real one who posts on the next page):
“honeslty... i really have no sympathy for u... ur one of those cats in the industry i wanna punch in the jaw... got ur foot in the door and breakin up niggas... decidin niggas' fates... thats wats wrong with LIFE in general, everyone chasin the fukkin money, fukk a relationship, brother/sisterhood, freindship or family... just get me my money... everybody schemin... Hip Hop??? no, MUSIC is fukkin dead... my love for beats n rhymes keeps me here... Illmuzic is Church and ur at Confession... thats all this is... oh yea... eL Oh eL...”
Response:
Ok, well here's my response. A kid with above average intelligence decides to go against the grain of what his family/neighborhood expectations. Moves to one of the super cutthroat music capitals of America (the others being Nashville or NYC.) The one we're talking about is LA.
You have no money, but you hustle a connection and get your foot in the door. You're broke most of the time, while you see well-connected dickheads that went to Stanford get promoted from the mailroom – and they have no common sense. This is good, because you can hustle the idiots. You hustle and prove yourself – then you get promoted. The cycle continues. Because you are adept at office politics and can also prove that you bring your label money with acts or with ideas, you keep getting promoted. In the meantime you have to guard yourself against the haters – which are plenty.
The money comes. Trust me – when success and money comes, you want more of it. I roll my eyes whenever I hear a cat that says it's about “the music” all the time and not the money. The thing is, if you come from nothing and end up making money, your whole attitude/life changes. You were some poor kid on the street riding a BMX bike and now you're rollin' in a Benz. This is a business, you need to make the paper. Otherwise do music as a hobby and hope someone discovers you. Many of the artists I hear are derivative of other artists...
And I sympathize with many hiphopheads on this forum. Guess what – those really stupid mailroom “colleagues” I used to work with way back in the olden days. They sign acts now (probably). Except they have no ear for the talent. So you wonder why the industry's in the shitter? Someone finds a hot original sound, everyone copies it (to make their track-record good) instead of listening for new shit that you've never heard before.
In order to make moves and change things in the industry, you have to be adept at internal politics at a label – remember, there are still a lot of people making a lot of money in the biz while the ship is sinking. Think of a heroin addict that still shoots up H, but knows they're dying. That's what the biz is like.
Chrono:
The music industry isn't so different than any other Industry. The most ruthless and cuthroat are the few remaining champions.. like 1937 gangsterism. You don't see Donald Trump keeping the most respectable people hired.. it's those that can kick and punch their way to the top. Befriend with a welcoming smile, then stab in the back repeatedly till every drip is met! That's the respect of the Industry! It's the nature of the beast.
And I totally disagree with it because it is as hollow as a lie and it's path leads only to destruction.. but so does anger and hate.
in the words of Club Nouvea.. " It's a Cold, Cold World"
Response:
Yeah. Well, every office culture can be cutthroat for a person that is motivated at getting to the top. If I was a banker on Wall St., I would do the same thing. If I was working for an oil company, I would be cutthroat too. No holds barred, I get it.
The thing is that music was an emotional thing when we were first introduced to it. That's why this was a conundrum for me personally. You market “rebellion” to every generation. That was the rebellion you thought was real when you were listening to shit. Kids these days think 50 Cent is just as “real” and “rebellious” as NWA was. He's not.
afriquedeluxe
Damn, its good that we get all this info about how mad the industry is, but I guess it dont really hit you till you are there yourself. Like Chrono said, it aint the only industry that's cut throat, there are many others besides the entertainment biz.
Mr G. I have to wonder, are there ever any attempts by the majors at getting something real? Infact, what makes it real? Don't the "real" artists somewhere along the line of getting signed turn into scams too with all the PR and label hype?
Response:
Yes, 'real' artists get signed. They generally are unique and define a “generation” or a specific “sound.” After the type of music is defined, the thought is that “emo is going to prevail for the next X years,” or “Hardcore gangsta rap is going to prevail for the next X years” or “grunge is hot now, let's go to Seattle and sign every bumfuck under the cloudy sky.” Let's sign more bands that sound like Fall Out Boy or rappers that are like 50 Cent. The lemming A&Rs that you worked with in the mailroom follow because they are pretty stupid, and contribute to the blandness of music.
See, where you buck the trend is when you keep in touch with the underground. Here's a true story – mid nineties, everyone was into grunge or signing shit alt-rock acts. But the underground hardcore (it's like metal, but with more screaming) was coming up through the cracks. Reps that signed the early hardcore bands and their rap/metal hybrids hit pay-dirt 5 years later when their acts, which they signed to a cost-effective deal, finally brought in the money. Examples: Deftones, Limp Bizkit, HedPe (one hit), KoRn, etc.
I'm surprised that my “colleagues” get caught up in their own hype that they're responsible for. I tell anyone that wants to sign bands - “Think of what's going to be hot in 3-5 years.” Not what's hot right now- if you're in it for the “art.” As a rep, sign what's underground now, and hope it's going to make headway for you if you can hold on to the act long enough.
What is NOT underground are underground rappers that try to sound like commercial rap on the radio but call themselves underground. What is good underground is artistically groundbreaking shit, like El-P. The thing is, I can't go to El-P and say, I want you to produce this cat, and then we're going to put it on Z100 or on ClearChannel stations across the US. That's cuz El-P is using his technique, but it ain't “pop” yet. The melodies aren't there in his synth riffs or weird-ass sounds that are mainstream enough. But he's breaking new ground. Someone derivative of him, or inspired by his work, with a more mainstream mindset will take his ideas and run with it.
Labels are hungry for new acts, the thing is that labels also want stuff that sells. Check out my post on the Jimmy Iovine interview – he pretty much nails it. With radio consolidation, etc., you have to be a good label boss to have everything work out. That's why I wish I was working for Interscope, or could kick my boss from his overly-exagerrated post modern Danish furniture styled, metal and glass office with expensive cubist art and his seven figure expense account and bloated salary to run a label that cross-pollinates artists with great “in-house” producers. Think what Iovine did with Pharrell – he said “let's have you work with the Hives” and some of the idea worked. Or Iovine going to Timbaland and say, “produce Nelly Furtado's album, I think something good can come from it.” Multiplatinum album.
You gotta have that dialogue and make your label like a team, where everyone is working together – not islands unto themselves.
Remember, every artist thinks their shit is hot, even when it isn't – so assess your music dispassionately after putting your heart and passion into it.
Sincock
Do you think, maybe, all these scams, (ie crap music with no substance marketed to tyhe lowest common denominator), etc are one of the reasons the music industry is going down the toilet and that you're just one of the few turd stains clinging stubbornly to the bowl?
Response:
Clive Davis is a turd stain on the toilet. I think there is way too much overhead and not enough digital outreach. I KNOW that reps don't know that EVERY version of DRM they are conned into buying the license to will be hacked by some kid.
No, each generation believes its music is the “shit.” Talk to a high school kid that you think Atreyu sucks and they will try to kick your ass and call you an old fart. Or tell some high school girl that Avril Lavigne is crap. She'll tell you to fuck off. True, other music from other generations are respected, but hell - when you're 13 years old - you THINK Panic! At the Disco really is the shit.
The reason? The general population that buys pop music doesn't know better. They really don't give a shit – if the melody's good, it's generally inoffensive (unless meant to be offensive as a marketing ploy for publicity) and available on iTunes or your local Wal-Mart, then they don't give a fuck. As long as the lyrics are about something common people identify with, like “love”, you're rolling in cash.
For discriminating music listeners, like the people on this forum – this is a problem. The thing is, I swear, Timbaland and Akon's ghost-production teams got it right with the techno synths in pop/rap music out now.
I heard the same techno/synth/rap sound back in 1999 from some underground cats in L.A. I specifically remember a friend of mine working at a label said that this was going to be the new shit in hiphop/RnB. It was a techno synth lead playing a cool riff, over and over, like trance techno lead riff but in a hip-hop style. Then it went into a small arpeggio for the chorus. It was hot and the rappers flowing over it were hot, good backpacker flow on it.
When he brought the CD to his boss to sign the act, or at least bring the producer to meet with label cats and work with him and cross-pollinate ideas and artists- his boss told him to basically fuck off – because that “sound” wasn't hot at the time.
Sorry, but last time I fucking checked – you pay A&R to scout for new talent right?
Ahem, then you started hearing shit like Lil' Jon using the techno synth, Timbaland, Danja, and Akon's stuff a couple years later. It's the ubiquitous pulsating synth in Chris Brown's music as well as that fat kid produced by JR Rotem (I have a brain fart) with the hit “Take you There”. Oh yeah, Sean Kingston. It's the lush synth in Kanye West's “Flashing Lights.”
The guy could have signed one of the first producers with that style back then - was the world ready for it? With the right PR you could make the world ready. Was his boss a dumbass?
Yes, he was a dumbass. The producer that worked in that style is probably clawing his eyes out right now.
Again, a lot of the bosses in the industry are old, they're concerned about saving their asses til retirement instead of sticking their neck out. Good bosses are few and far between. Management skills are lacking in the industry, and there are a few cats I truly respect that run their divisions in a great way.
If you want me to get more involved in this question, post it somewhere else and I'll reply.
BigD
I feel what you are saying, thing is, you gotta make money somehow and everyone and everything has a price, and if you are into the music business with morals, ethics and hi standards you gonna fuck yourself out of a lot of dollars and eventually be that guy down in the park or in the subway or metro playing the keys or guitar or sax LOL naw JK, but yeah I feel you, thing is, it's a hard world as you know but there's a lot of people would love to be in your situation, maybe its time to change careers dawg, just give me all of your contacts and put me down with the folks who can cut checks LOL
Response:
Yes, definitely have to be amoral – I highly suggest books like the “48 Laws of Power.” I can't change a career at this point, just got to figure out the next move. I'm just lucky I'm not one of the 2,000 people fired by EMI's new chief – Guy Hands (yes, that's his name.) I know a lot of cats sending out resumes. Sony keeps cuttin' people from their roster and their staff. All things are not good on Sunset Strip.
Ha – you want my Outlook file of contacts? That'll cost you... Damn it's saved my ass on more than a couple thousand times.
The Mastermind:
Are you in the music industry to get rich or just make a living and live meaningfully?
If you're in it to get rich, do what you're doing. Have a cycle of guilt trip and recovery and go on and on. Just don't look too closely at what some of that top 40 shit is doing to the kiddies out there or the guilt trips might get too much.
If it's about making a living, take a break and make a new plan. A couple of days under a tree with a note book could give a new direction. Sounds like you know the industry so you could carve out some sort of niche pushing something that means something to you.
Sounds to me like you're torn. Could make a good movie by Oliver Stone (not that I'd watch it), you know the emtpy yuppie looking for meaning vs greed is good conflict.
Can't say I could stomach what you do. But maybe that's why I'm a million miles from the music industry.
Response:
In it bc I love(d) music. Then it becomes a paper chase. You stomach things a LOT better when you're getting paid really good for it. Now, I see the possibility of change in the industry, when the young cats can politick better with the old-timers who still run shit but don't really understand change. Greed is good, but you also gotta enjoy what you're doing, right?
Record labels need to adapt - and they're not.
Chrono:
regardless of everythig though it is nice that the control of music is being put back into the hand of the artist. it might catalyze a musical renaissance to expload from artists over the age of 25 who have something to say from the experience of life.. it also means that the artist's income across the board will drop.. instead of having 10 artists making millions your have thousands only making thousands and tours will be big again! Where genres will begin to merge into an orgy of creativity and inspirational juices spatter on everyone, soaking all in a new beautiful and glorious raw Musicical AGE!! haha now where's my patulli
Response:
Never before have YOU the artist had so much leverage to deal with a label. If you are astute with your web skills, you can create a comprehensive package of web site, blogs, communities, mp3s, etc., that you can professionally submit as a whole to labels. They will LOVE you for it. If you can perform, and your demos sound like shit you can actually listen to on the radio - your chances of getting signed have jumped even more.
Label cats KNOW you can do most of the shit yourself. So cop that cheap video camera, get a copy of Adobe Audition or whatever, and edit a video of yourself. PROMOTE yourself. You need to have your shit 100% together when you go talk to a person willing to invest six figures or more into your music.
Don't be so hard on the 25 years old thing – there are A LOT of artists that lie about their age. Akon claimed he was in his twenties until it was revealed whoops – he's 35. The music has to be hot, and you have to look like you fit with the music. Your image has to be hot too. You can be older, but you gotta look like a musician. Good example: Kanye's new “futuristic look.” Gwen Stefani - shit, she's 40 something and looks great.
50 Cent was "old" when he got signed to Shady/Aftermath.
The 80's are coming back people, it's sickening but cool at the same time – I have to go now. I just heard a sick track from some cats that have drums sounding like the gated kicks and snares of an 80's Genesis song.
And their hook is great.
bigdmakintrax
BeatKreatoR
Ok God here ya go, START YOUR OWN LABEL, get in some producers completely unknown mesh with some known names and connection then voila, you are SONY, You are Interscope, You run the show...not a lil slice or piece, you push everything...starting with ill and the music that we got on here...its a no brainer homie, thats your next move, get some investors and venture capitalists and boom....
Chrono
polyphonically beyond me
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 5
Thanks for the time you spent to write out all of your responses to everyone. much respect!
Specifically the information about marketing yourself as well as you can before contacting the labels for the backing, makes sense.
"it's all gone, say goodbye.. bless a new dawn, the future is nigh"
-ct
Specifically the information about marketing yourself as well as you can before contacting the labels for the backing, makes sense.
"it's all gone, say goodbye.. bless a new dawn, the future is nigh"
-ct
who is the hero? Link?
eldiablo
KRACK HEAD
ill o.g.
classic look below in my sig.
Oh yeah and God if you need a hot ass little female emo singer with a voice from hell. I got one for you. Not as many females making deals this day and age, I'll keep you posted.
ELdiablo
afriquedeluxe
ILLIEN
good thread, good reply G.
99% (if not all) of the worlds business models are Pyramid schemes. Don't think that shit being on the back of the "almighty dollar" is just art or paying homage to Egypt! The whole Pyramid business model is based on "everybody fucking everybody" financially. That's the reason we're in a recession, that's the reason we have this housing crisis (house flipping) etc etc. Those above you reap the benefits of what you do and so on and so forth. It's a never ending cycle. This shit is bigger than you,me or anybody commenting on this topic. Roll with it or get rolled over, and you definitely can't change the game on the outside looking in! So get in "by any means necessary" and stop "wishful thinking" from the cheap seats!
And who ever thinks it has ever been and is going back to "being all about the music" lives in "la la land". When you started hearing music on the radio, tv etc etc it got Baptized in money! The only people that feel that way are "sitting on the side line" trying to get in the game. What you wish for it will never be so like someone has already mentioned "do it for a hobby" and hope somebody picks up a shovel or backhoe and finds you "underground".
This shit is what it is! The only "truly" inspiring music is found within the four walls of a church....and even that's being exploited right about now.
Do what you gotta do to feed u and your family. Confessing will only get you "brownie points" with the "outsiders" who can't get in! Those in the business will see this as a weakness and will eventually cut your throat, so to speak.
Pass your knowledge of the business on to others (like your are doing here) so that some of us won't get "fucked" as hard as you may have when you were "on the come up". That's the best you can do and it's enough in my opinion. This music business is not for the "faint of heart". If you're hard on the outside and squishy on the inside (like many are), grab your ball or yarn and knit a sweater. Stay away from the "business" of music because you won't last past minute rice.
In the famous quote of Skidmatic.....that's my 2 cents!
And who ever thinks it has ever been and is going back to "being all about the music" lives in "la la land". When you started hearing music on the radio, tv etc etc it got Baptized in money! The only people that feel that way are "sitting on the side line" trying to get in the game. What you wish for it will never be so like someone has already mentioned "do it for a hobby" and hope somebody picks up a shovel or backhoe and finds you "underground".
This shit is what it is! The only "truly" inspiring music is found within the four walls of a church....and even that's being exploited right about now.
Do what you gotta do to feed u and your family. Confessing will only get you "brownie points" with the "outsiders" who can't get in! Those in the business will see this as a weakness and will eventually cut your throat, so to speak.
Pass your knowledge of the business on to others (like your are doing here) so that some of us won't get "fucked" as hard as you may have when you were "on the come up". That's the best you can do and it's enough in my opinion. This music business is not for the "faint of heart". If you're hard on the outside and squishy on the inside (like many are), grab your ball or yarn and knit a sweater. Stay away from the "business" of music because you won't last past minute rice.
In the famous quote of Skidmatic.....that's my 2 cents!
slik da relic
RS Jedi
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
i respect u for respondin to everyone... mustve took u all night...
i still wanna punch u in the jaw tho... hehe
keep grindin... ive moved into the rap/rock genre... learned a lil from Kid Rock u know???
da relic
i still wanna punch u in the jaw tho... hehe
keep grindin... ive moved into the rap/rock genre... learned a lil from Kid Rock u know???
da relic
Hey God, this is the Relic that didnt blank on you above (the real one lol)
yo, Who IS trying to sell to the sophisticated hiphop head now adays tho?
I havent heard anything really fantastic in eons, I just changed my taste so I can listen to the radio for longer than 3 minutes..
Obviously since the days of old the industry has been scamming people, (mostly artists back in the day) now it seems like the industry is paying the artists but now scamming the public by bypassing good talent and forcing us to listen to what is marketable.
Id be Jadded too in that scenario, hell Im jaded about the music now, I have an artist that all I wanna do is just get him out, but I know the likelihood of that is low especially since he's not 17 regardless of talent.
Hope you can make the change in the industry soon.
God
Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
Lil' Drama Boi:
99% (if not all) of the worlds business models are Pyramid schemes. Don't think that shit being on the back of the "almighty dollar" is just art or paying homage to Egypt! The whole Pyramid business model is based on "everybody fucking everybody" financially. That's the reason we're in a recession, that's the reason we have this housing crisis (house flipping) etc etc. Those above you reap the benefits of what you do and so on and so forth. It's a never ending cycle. This shit is bigger than you,me or anybody commenting on this topic. Roll with it or get rolled over, and you definitely can't change the game on the outside looking in! So get in "by any means necessary" and stop "wishful thinking" from the cheap seats!
And who ever thinks it has ever been and is going back to "being all about the music" lives in "la la land". When you started hearing music on the radio, tv etc etc it got Baptized in money! The only people that feel that way are "sitting on the side line" trying to get in the game. What you wish for it will never be so like someone has already mentioned "do it for a hobby" and hope somebody picks up a shovel or backhoe and finds you "underground".
This shit is what it is! The only "truly" inspiring music is found within the four walls of a church....and even that's being exploited right about now.
Do what you gotta do to feed u and your family. Confessing will only get you "brownie points" with the "outsiders" who can't get in! Those in the business will see this as a weakness and will eventually cut your throat, so to speak.
Pass your knowledge of the business on to others (like your are doing here) so that some of us won't get "fucked" as hard as you may have when you were "on the come up". That's the best you can do and it's enough in my opinion. This music business is not for the "faint of heart". If you're hard on the outside and squishy on the inside (like many are), grab your ball or yarn and knit a sweater. Stay away from the "business" of music because you won't last past minute rice.
In the famous quote of Skidmatic.....that's my 2 cents!
Response:
Thanks for your insight into world finances and your adept statement that I've already echoed.
Man, I'm a cutthroat ruthless cat and have eaten up people who thought they were “grindin'” and try to out hustle cold hearted hustler like me. The jokes don't work when I've done the jokes.
But you get jaded, or a touch of emotion hits you sometime- What am I inhuman (I know where that's gonna go lol)? But we're human and have feelings? Shit, even the Navy SEAL shows some humanity when they become an alcoholic in order to cope with some of the fucked up shit they do. No disrespect to SEALs, they're badass – but I think you're echoing something that IMHO is a pretty backward way to psychologically assess someone.
Interesting how one moment of “weakness” i.e. “emotion” gives cats the chance to dog on you.
I don't ask sympathy from anyone, because sympathy from a person I don't really know doesn't do anything for me. I'm just relaying my feelings to cats on this board, some who have known of me in this forum for a while.
Slick da Relic (not “Relic”):
keep grindin... ive moved into the rap/rock genre... learned a lil from Kid Rock u know???
Response:
Nobody is really signing rap/metal acts like Kid Rock these days. Even he knew to change up his style to country/Southern rock. I've heard that cats are looking for a sick rapper, kind of like an Edan to front a jam band. Imagine Phish/Rusted Root with a vocalist(s) like Edan/Cannibal Ox. Stoners would love that shit – you would be the next hot shit. It would be the next DMB IMHO. The Roots ALMOST had it, but they didn't really go the “jam band” way and fucked up. They were on the verge of creating a fortune as a jam band touring act, but went back to hip hop. Guess they kept it “real.”
If you're doing rap/rock, you gotta do it right, and it has to be combined properly. Timbaland fucked up with the Hives on their joint with his general production of the guitar tone and guitars being in the background to his pop/rap production. But a good Tim/Danja beat – no drummer – just programmed beat with a rock band would be hot right now. It would sell as fast as crack in Camden, NJ.
Relic:
Hey God, this is the Relic that didnt blank on you above (the real one lol)
yo, Who IS trying to sell to the sophisticated hiphop head now adays tho?
I havent heard anything really fantastic in eons, I just changed my taste so I can listen to the radio for longer than 3 minutes..
Obviously since the days of old the industry has been scamming people, (mostly artists back in the day) now it seems like the industry is paying the artists but now scamming the public by bypassing good talent and forcing us to listen to what is marketable.
Id be Jadded too in that scenario, hell Im jaded about the music now, I have an artist that all I wanna do is just get him out, but I know the likelihood of that is low especially since he's not 17 regardless of talent.
Hope you can make the change in the industry soon.
Response:
Who signs interesting music these days? Real indie labels or labels that claim to be indie with a major as a silent partner (who want to get a cut of the action in the event that underground shit goes mainstream.)
Def Jux – all the labels you know – are doing things the artistic way, but won't go platinum yet. Remember that Ace Rock's “Bazooka Tooth” went gold. Yes GOLD w/o any commercial airplay. El-P – being the good biz cat he is – then tried to take Ace Rock more mainstream, with failure. Market ain't ready yet for the sound bc he didn't have enough publicity pushing it.
But it's gonna happen, that style WILL come out. Too much money invested in the underground scene. Thing is – the founding cats won't really make the most money off the scene. An inspired rapper with a more commercial slant will bring it to the forefront.
Think about alternative rock in the eighties (if you remember it – hell, I have vague memories) it was barely there. Bands like the Pixies and Husker Du were doing their anti-social thing. Nirvana came along, basically copied the Pixies with more commercial songs (I doubt that Cobain really thought “shit this is commercial) but they had your commercial song structure and you had a bona fide hit on your hands.
This happen with indie rap. Eminem was the closest thing to an indie style rapper using backpacker flow on some of his major label songs, but he also had really dumb songs that appealed to the masses too. He was a major label artist, and needed to cater to differerent audiences in order to sell well.
BigD:
Ok God here ya go, START YOUR OWN LABEL, get in some producers completely unknown mesh with some known names and connection then voila, you are SONY, You are Interscope, You run the show...not a lil slice or piece, you push everything...starting with ill and the music that we got on here...its a no brainer homie, thats your next move, get some investors and venture capitalists and boom....
Response:
You know your shit – I've known of you for a while and respect your comments.
Thing with starting the own label – you're right – I have to hustle the right V.C.s or corporations to buy into it. The thing is, there is so much consolidation, and so much going on – I think a label like CherryTree would work. Where you find acts and market them to specific global markets. Like finding a hot indie rapper that would be the shit in Japan. Or maybe a punk rock band from Italy or some shit that would be hot here. I would need the dopest publicists in the world, and they cost money – I have to think that shit over.
Rap has so much saturation but you definitely bring up the obvious suggestion - thanks.
BigD – what do you think of LiveNation trying to take over the world now? Vertical integration – own the venues, own the box office, own the booking agencies (or have them on a leash), own the radio stations (ClearChannel), and now OWN their own label. Smart cats – too bad label heads didn't see this coming. Props to agencies though for seeing this and cross marketing too.
Man, I can hear Clive shiver and talk about how he discovered Whitney Houston just to make him feel better.
Look, if you want to put shit into REAL perspective on why I think my former Standford “colleagues” are smoking crack is that they're pushing shit like this REAL hard and actually getting good promo money for it.
Don't laugh too hard. But honestly – will they go platinum? Is this the sound of the future? I kind of see the Cure rip-off band having success with the right producer - but come on. Sigh.
Vampire Weekend: http://www.myspace.com/vampireweekend
Black Kids: http://www.myspace.com/blackkidsrock
Do you hear the clank of platinum on those tracks? I don't. The Cure rip-off “Black Kids” is actually/was in a bidding war between labels. I repeat – BIDDING WAR. (shakes head.)
Later.
99% (if not all) of the worlds business models are Pyramid schemes. Don't think that shit being on the back of the "almighty dollar" is just art or paying homage to Egypt! The whole Pyramid business model is based on "everybody fucking everybody" financially. That's the reason we're in a recession, that's the reason we have this housing crisis (house flipping) etc etc. Those above you reap the benefits of what you do and so on and so forth. It's a never ending cycle. This shit is bigger than you,me or anybody commenting on this topic. Roll with it or get rolled over, and you definitely can't change the game on the outside looking in! So get in "by any means necessary" and stop "wishful thinking" from the cheap seats!
And who ever thinks it has ever been and is going back to "being all about the music" lives in "la la land". When you started hearing music on the radio, tv etc etc it got Baptized in money! The only people that feel that way are "sitting on the side line" trying to get in the game. What you wish for it will never be so like someone has already mentioned "do it for a hobby" and hope somebody picks up a shovel or backhoe and finds you "underground".
This shit is what it is! The only "truly" inspiring music is found within the four walls of a church....and even that's being exploited right about now.
Do what you gotta do to feed u and your family. Confessing will only get you "brownie points" with the "outsiders" who can't get in! Those in the business will see this as a weakness and will eventually cut your throat, so to speak.
Pass your knowledge of the business on to others (like your are doing here) so that some of us won't get "fucked" as hard as you may have when you were "on the come up". That's the best you can do and it's enough in my opinion. This music business is not for the "faint of heart". If you're hard on the outside and squishy on the inside (like many are), grab your ball or yarn and knit a sweater. Stay away from the "business" of music because you won't last past minute rice.
In the famous quote of Skidmatic.....that's my 2 cents!
Response:
Thanks for your insight into world finances and your adept statement that I've already echoed.
Man, I'm a cutthroat ruthless cat and have eaten up people who thought they were “grindin'” and try to out hustle cold hearted hustler like me. The jokes don't work when I've done the jokes.
But you get jaded, or a touch of emotion hits you sometime- What am I inhuman (I know where that's gonna go lol)? But we're human and have feelings? Shit, even the Navy SEAL shows some humanity when they become an alcoholic in order to cope with some of the fucked up shit they do. No disrespect to SEALs, they're badass – but I think you're echoing something that IMHO is a pretty backward way to psychologically assess someone.
Interesting how one moment of “weakness” i.e. “emotion” gives cats the chance to dog on you.
I don't ask sympathy from anyone, because sympathy from a person I don't really know doesn't do anything for me. I'm just relaying my feelings to cats on this board, some who have known of me in this forum for a while.
Slick da Relic (not “Relic”):
keep grindin... ive moved into the rap/rock genre... learned a lil from Kid Rock u know???
Response:
Nobody is really signing rap/metal acts like Kid Rock these days. Even he knew to change up his style to country/Southern rock. I've heard that cats are looking for a sick rapper, kind of like an Edan to front a jam band. Imagine Phish/Rusted Root with a vocalist(s) like Edan/Cannibal Ox. Stoners would love that shit – you would be the next hot shit. It would be the next DMB IMHO. The Roots ALMOST had it, but they didn't really go the “jam band” way and fucked up. They were on the verge of creating a fortune as a jam band touring act, but went back to hip hop. Guess they kept it “real.”
If you're doing rap/rock, you gotta do it right, and it has to be combined properly. Timbaland fucked up with the Hives on their joint with his general production of the guitar tone and guitars being in the background to his pop/rap production. But a good Tim/Danja beat – no drummer – just programmed beat with a rock band would be hot right now. It would sell as fast as crack in Camden, NJ.
Relic:
Hey God, this is the Relic that didnt blank on you above (the real one lol)
yo, Who IS trying to sell to the sophisticated hiphop head now adays tho?
I havent heard anything really fantastic in eons, I just changed my taste so I can listen to the radio for longer than 3 minutes..
Obviously since the days of old the industry has been scamming people, (mostly artists back in the day) now it seems like the industry is paying the artists but now scamming the public by bypassing good talent and forcing us to listen to what is marketable.
Id be Jadded too in that scenario, hell Im jaded about the music now, I have an artist that all I wanna do is just get him out, but I know the likelihood of that is low especially since he's not 17 regardless of talent.
Hope you can make the change in the industry soon.
Response:
Who signs interesting music these days? Real indie labels or labels that claim to be indie with a major as a silent partner (who want to get a cut of the action in the event that underground shit goes mainstream.)
Def Jux – all the labels you know – are doing things the artistic way, but won't go platinum yet. Remember that Ace Rock's “Bazooka Tooth” went gold. Yes GOLD w/o any commercial airplay. El-P – being the good biz cat he is – then tried to take Ace Rock more mainstream, with failure. Market ain't ready yet for the sound bc he didn't have enough publicity pushing it.
But it's gonna happen, that style WILL come out. Too much money invested in the underground scene. Thing is – the founding cats won't really make the most money off the scene. An inspired rapper with a more commercial slant will bring it to the forefront.
Think about alternative rock in the eighties (if you remember it – hell, I have vague memories) it was barely there. Bands like the Pixies and Husker Du were doing their anti-social thing. Nirvana came along, basically copied the Pixies with more commercial songs (I doubt that Cobain really thought “shit this is commercial) but they had your commercial song structure and you had a bona fide hit on your hands.
This happen with indie rap. Eminem was the closest thing to an indie style rapper using backpacker flow on some of his major label songs, but he also had really dumb songs that appealed to the masses too. He was a major label artist, and needed to cater to differerent audiences in order to sell well.
BigD:
Ok God here ya go, START YOUR OWN LABEL, get in some producers completely unknown mesh with some known names and connection then voila, you are SONY, You are Interscope, You run the show...not a lil slice or piece, you push everything...starting with ill and the music that we got on here...its a no brainer homie, thats your next move, get some investors and venture capitalists and boom....
Response:
You know your shit – I've known of you for a while and respect your comments.
Thing with starting the own label – you're right – I have to hustle the right V.C.s or corporations to buy into it. The thing is, there is so much consolidation, and so much going on – I think a label like CherryTree would work. Where you find acts and market them to specific global markets. Like finding a hot indie rapper that would be the shit in Japan. Or maybe a punk rock band from Italy or some shit that would be hot here. I would need the dopest publicists in the world, and they cost money – I have to think that shit over.
Rap has so much saturation but you definitely bring up the obvious suggestion - thanks.
BigD – what do you think of LiveNation trying to take over the world now? Vertical integration – own the venues, own the box office, own the booking agencies (or have them on a leash), own the radio stations (ClearChannel), and now OWN their own label. Smart cats – too bad label heads didn't see this coming. Props to agencies though for seeing this and cross marketing too.
Man, I can hear Clive shiver and talk about how he discovered Whitney Houston just to make him feel better.
Look, if you want to put shit into REAL perspective on why I think my former Standford “colleagues” are smoking crack is that they're pushing shit like this REAL hard and actually getting good promo money for it.
Don't laugh too hard. But honestly – will they go platinum? Is this the sound of the future? I kind of see the Cure rip-off band having success with the right producer - but come on. Sigh.
Vampire Weekend: http://www.myspace.com/vampireweekend
Black Kids: http://www.myspace.com/blackkidsrock
Do you hear the clank of platinum on those tracks? I don't. The Cure rip-off “Black Kids” is actually/was in a bidding war between labels. I repeat – BIDDING WAR. (shakes head.)
Later.
Chrono
polyphonically beyond me
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 5
yeah no doubt, jealousy is possibly one of the reasons some of these guys came at you like that, of course i'm not generalizing everyone that said something.. just throwin it out there and if it sticks on anyone then i'm most likely takin about them:wink:. Being in touch with your humanity takes strength in this cold, fucked up world. I hope one of these days that those now afraid to show emotions have a chance before they die to get to know themselves better and stop being weak and afraid to face their own emotions.
that said...
Aesop went gold?? wow didn't know that. That is interesting what you said about eventually the underground will blow but it won't be those in it now... i hope whoever it is does it justice... i know many have tried and failed.. Arsonists, Non-phixion, Copy, Apathy, Immortal Technique an on an on... i hope whoever it is does it justice... umm well i guess if they don't "do it justice" then it would just be another generic attempt at the pureness and we'd still be waitin'
--ctiNyaAreA
I feel you! This world has it's good and it's evil and both are apart of us all and everything we do. It's takes a "real man" to admit his faults and weaknesses. I take everything you've dropped as "game". You can't play if you don't know the rules. You're speaking knowledge and everybody reading this needs to take some good notes (I know I am). It's always easier to point out the negative shit. Some people are just that "negative". I appreciate your perspective being that you're on the "inside". Most wouldn't dare speak the "truth" about the industry that most of us would damn near "sell our souls" to be apart of. Drop more knowledge G...I'm soaking it all up like a sponge!
Krazyfingaz
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 2
Classic! yea LDB basicly hit on the nose. also if no one has seen it take a look at this movie http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/index.html 2 hrs but the 3rd chapter is pretty interesting.
StressWon
www.stress1.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 68
this is a great thread. Glad to see these type of threads back here.
the "business" is evil, but only certain cats are built for it. That simple. I think no matter where you are and in what aspect whether artist, producer, manager, publicists, and so on,,,,ya gotta have a thick hide and an empty heart. it's been like that forever.
@ GOD,,,doesn't RATM just alleviate a bad day sometimes? Reminded me to go and up the first album back on my ipod,,,good looks.
the "business" is evil, but only certain cats are built for it. That simple. I think no matter where you are and in what aspect whether artist, producer, manager, publicists, and so on,,,,ya gotta have a thick hide and an empty heart. it's been like that forever.
@ GOD,,,doesn't RATM just alleviate a bad day sometimes? Reminded me to go and up the first album back on my ipod,,,good looks.