Should This woman be allowed to die? What do the religious/atheists here think?

[JP hardboiled]

Have you guys heard about this case where, Terri Schiavo, a women who's been on life support had her feeding tube disengaged? She will starve to death without Jeb Bushes intervention. There is a lot of speculation as to if she is brain dead, which would profoundly influence how most of us feel about the situation. However, her family are the important ones, and they consistently say she is not braindead. They also say she would want to live, though no one knows what she would have wanted cause it was never raised while she was still able to communicate.

I watched religious guru, Deepak Chopra, talk about the situation yesterday, and the fundamental issues raised include what we consider "living" with the technology we have knowadays. We can keep brain dead people "alive" on tubes for a long long time, but is that living? Another Theologian was saying that doing so intervenes with God's plan and are denying the "spirit" its natural journey.

Maybe everybody is created and here for a reason including the handicapped, old, and people suffering in hospitals even though they aren't mentally sound. A while back my sister was going to have a baby, and the guy was a jerkoff and wasn't going to stick around. One option, due to todays technology, was abortion which we seriously thought about. In hindsight I can't believe we even considered it when I look at my niece Jaiden, who couldn't been killed without her consent. She has brought us together. Maybe in a similar manner people lying in hospitals and others who cannot make "logical" decisions bring people together in the world. In Terri Schiavo's case I'm still not sure what is right or wrong. This is horrible that the gov. will let someone starve to death this Easter.

I know there are some very religious people on this site as well as some sadistic cats, and I love the range of people here. It makes me think that if there is a devil and God they could somehow get along. What do you all think?

 

[Formant024]

I think those religious goons need a life of their own, same for that millionair that offered the husband a million just to let her live ( as if it's about the money ). Everyone should be in the right to end their lives when THEY consider it to be unbareble to continue, not a priest from who-cares-what-religion who lives by the book instead of living by the heart.

Intervening gods plan ? What a nutcase, you can suffer for a good cause, not a lost cause which is the fact here. I mean, you need to be reasonable here, you dont throw around ancient manuscripts for the sake of religious principles, the woman is not an example for the rest of the US, let them selves be an example and if that dont work, tuff luck. I doubt those guru's priests whatever on tv anyway, I assume considering the situation that there should be more privacy between the two parties if there was any sincere meaning in their message to the women, instead they cant wait to show their faces on tv. I know one thing, if its a delicate matter you keep it discrete, now it just looks like a big governmental propaganda wether to allow this by law or not. Bush simply came because he relies heavily to these religious morons when it comes to voting, with my guesses being that it wont be allowed/ approved by law in the time that Bush remains president.



Lets not be hypocrite around my atheist ass, you believe in God, then start believing Lucifer...

I honestly cant give an Flying Fug, taliban would shoot me before any catholic hehehe we're the worst, I dont see why but who cares....really....

 

[The Konductor]

I don't see what's the big deal. This situation has happened in the past and now people all of a sudden want to make a scene. People, meaning the government. These fucks just shove propaganda down our throats and we're such little bitches that we take it. And that goes for eveything. Laws, insurance, corporations.

What about the 1500 Americans and over 20,000 Iraqis' that have died due to the fact that we have an overzealous president who tricks the American people into thinking that Iraq was a true threat. When you think about it (which most don't) how can a poodle fuck with a pitbull? America is straight stealing Iraq's oil and thats all there is to it.

So why make a fuss about Terri? Because she used to be hot before her unfortunate situation?
Lets get our heads out of our asses. This isn't important enough to spend all the time, money, and man power to cover.

 

[tricky spinz]

honestly, i've always been an advocate of euthanasia. i think that it's up to someone to decide if they want to continue living. if they being denied a happy existence in this life shouldn't they be allowed to find comfort in death or the afterlife, or heaven, or whatever they think lies beyond?

 

[The Bastard]

yeah, if hes gunna let her die, get sum sort of lethal injection goin into her iv, that at least would be human, lettin her slowly dry out and starve is just fucked up

 

[Formant024]

I keep saying it...

You guys need a revolution.

 

[Cold Truth]

well, i am going to avoid the religion element, and i am seriously going to discourage anyone else from replying regarding the religious element, because it always causes a problem. i reeeeeeally hate to ask this, because it was a direct question being asked regarding the religious perspective... but i guarantee you it will just result in arguments, so please just dont respond from the religion standpoint because that will result in the thread geting closed after the arguing.

now that that is out of the way,

honestly, i've always been an advocate of euthanasia. i think that it's up to someone to decide if they want to continue living. if they being denied a happy existence in this life shouldn't they be allowed to find comfort in death or the afterlife, or heaven, or whatever they think lies beyond?

here is the problem: terry shaivo is not in a position where she can tell us what she wants.

another thing to consider: she is not life support. despite popular belief, she isnta "vegetable". she is being fed through a tube simply because she can not eat under her own power.

her husband says taht she wouldnt have wanted this, and is acting to keep her wishes intact. there is nothing in writing stating this, which is a major problem. the issue isnt, "pull the plug", it isnt "letting her die", it is, sorry to say, and you can check the actual facts on this, but it is literally choosing to kill her, which is FAR different from letting somebody die.

i know she has been in this state for over 15 years, however, i seem to recall in the 90's a woman coming out of a similar situation after 30 years and lived her life... ima have to look that up though.

who is to say that she cant or wont come out it? if one person goes 30 years, what is fifteen? i am certain she is glad she was spared.

i suppose i can speak from experience, somehwat. my uncle (through marriage) was in an accident that DID render him a vegetable- complete life support. he didnt resond to anything, and showed zero signs of recovering according to the doctors. the doctors heavily reccommended pulling the plug, saying that it was hopeless. his parents wanted to pull the plug. my aunt simply refused- and after a year and a half of vegetable status, he recovered and came out of that state. his parents were pissed at my aunt and stopped speaking with her. 6 months after his recovery, he divorced her. my aunt could have been a greedy hag, pulled the plug, an taken the insurance money, but didnt. so much for the value of a human life.

i know people "mysteriously" healed of cancers and ALL traits. i know people with watermelon sized tumors that vanished without a trace- not even scar tissue remaining. i have known too many "mysterious", UNEXPLAINABLE recoveries to count, too many illnesses and physical maladys "mysteriously" fixed in a span of a few days-all of which i speak of VERIFIED, with documented statements from the doctors involved.

all i am saying here, is that you just never know. my uncle would have been dead if it werent for my aunt refusing to pull the plug. a year after being told to pull the plug, HE RECOVERED FROMA VEGETATIVE STATE AND HAS ONLY SLIGHTLY SLURRED SPEECH AND A FEW MEMORY LAPSES- as if he had nothing more then a stroke ....which is always serious, mind you, but still far better then being all but dead. you pull the plug on a life, and you may have denied that life its chanc to truly live again.

we might as well kill babies born with down syndrome, to "save" them the greif of the life they would live otherwise. we should kill children born with palsey's and autism. things that not only cause them discomfort and often difficult, chaotic lives, but cause those of us who are responsible for their lives far greater chaos and sdiscomfort- a morbid inconvenience, if you will. why not? it would be the kinder, more humane way.

until, we realize, that these are the basic foundations of genocides throughout history. hitler massacred millions of jews- and cripples, and mentally ill, in the name of creating humanitary perfection while promoting the devestating propaganda of being "kind" to those with who would live a tormentous life due to their inadequacies. yes, hitler was "different" and that was something on a terrible scale indeed, but the BASIC, FOUNDATIONAL PRINCIPLE, is still very, very close.

thats all i really got to say about this.

 

[KIRK T]

An example:
Your family just pulled the plug on grandma, I'm at dinner with you all and to comfort you in your decision I mention that they made the right choice.. I wouldnt want my life sustained by a machine.. Grandma probably wouldnt either etc etc...

Don't hold me to that shit.. It is the documents we sign our names to in life that we're held responsible for.. Not the things we say in passing.
--
What did she tell her husband? I don't want life support, pull the plug if I can't talk, If I'm a vegetable, I don't want to live if I can't feed myself? Too much ambiguity. Again, I can't legally be held to my words if I say I'm interested in buying a car but in a life/death situation my words are suddenly my wishes? Fuck that.. Especially my words 20 yrs ago..
--
If she did indeed wish to not be supported by artificial means, then why are her parents searched for food & water when they visit? Is someone feeding you artificial? I had kids in my high school lookin worse than her.. This one kid everyone called "doorstop".. Cuz its all that motherfucker would ever be good for.. If he can someday mumble the words, "I want to die" should they stop feeding him?
--
Yeah, there are people who have come out of 20 yr comas & vegetative states..
To those that say "what, ONE person in about a MILLION.. What are the chances this woman will"? Well, far less than one person in a million has success in the music industry, yet motherfuckers will defend their chances like mad dogs when someone questions their "unrealistic" goals.


Whether you look to a higher power or not. Life is a gift.
Give it every chance. Exaust every chance. Doctors know jack shit about the human brain. Science still can't tell us what the 90% we don't use is there for.. A reasonable judge should take these facts into consideration... And when the vast American public is so compassionate on an issue, at the very least, he should give opposing expert testimony more consideration... Not hand down a ruling on someones life in 3 hrs after a nobel prize nominated doctor who recently spent 10 hrs with her says that he can have her talking again.


Damn, thats alot of typing.. I got shit to do, lol... . Just thought I'd weight in with my view on things. My views are definitely influenced by my relationship with God, but I think they're pretty sound and reasonable regardless of your beliefs.

Anyway, a sad situation any way you slice it.
one.

 

[Cold Truth]

^^^^^^^^^^^

man kirk t that was just too real.... amen to taht, i say.

 

[gram green]

without talkin shit about the religious right....

i've got to say... it seems reversed to me... "christians" and religious persons i would think would be against going against "gods devine plan" ... if god wanted this girl to live he wouldnt make her unable to live without this feeding tube...

why are all these peeps that are supposedly so close to god so scared to meet him?

that seems strange to me... but i dont know enough bout this to make a judgement... it does seem strange its coming up now... also the motives of the husband could be suspect, maybe, he has since remarried and has kids with some other lady... but who da fuck knows...

i do know this... there is much more important shit goin on to get riled up about...

 

[KIRK T]

I feel you.. But also take into consideration, "the religious right", is not always on the "right".. Democrats & republicans alike, voted by a landslide to give this woman another chance in congress.

It's not necessarily about religion..

"god wanted this girl to live he wouldnt make her unable to live without this feeding tube..."

One could also argue that if god wanted her to die, he wouldnt have blessed us with the means to let her live..

Its a vicious circle.. lol.. But I feel you..

 

[Formant024]

pfff, this shit is like going back a few centuries, friggin conservative

SEPERATE CHURCH FROM STATE!

 

[gram green]

god must want this chic to hang out in a hospital for a couple decades....

THEN she'll wake up and they can have a reality show with her... you know follow her around and shit, and document all the comical things that happen... like her seeing the internet and cell phones and shit.... also she will probably be very excited to see how hip hop has grown into whatever it is.....

this is god's plan obviously... to make a #1 reality tv show ... why cant people see this

death to non believers

 

[Formant024]

^^^cant wait for her t-shirt already!

 

[KIRK T]

& she could be on punk'd, they'd act like they were gonna pull the plug on her again & ashton kutcher would jump out laughing.. & all the while her reaction doesnt change at all.. lol..

"this shit is like going back a few centuries, friggin conservative, SEPERATE CHURCH FROM STATE!"...
Not sure how church & state are connected here... The only time church & state crossed lines here was when the judge illegally denied her communion. & whos a conservative? Me? Not sure if you were addressing me or not... But most liberals/democrats present voted in favor of new law that would gave her family more options.. MOST, not some or a few..

This womans situation moved many people. Lumping them all together & painting them conservative with a broad brush is as narrow minded as any racist.

Trust, it's not just republicans who believe the universe isn't an accidental occurance.

 

[Formant024]

I meant conservative as non political, but as in the meaning conservative....

Church and state are related in that Bush makes it an issue where he is influenced by a religious party, now guess what's his concern, the sick woman or the voters....

 

[KIRK T]

ok I feel you.. It's hard to say though.. Bush won the election and can never run again, so the voters may not be of so much importance.. Now, his brother.. Yeah, his ass wants as many people on his side as he can get.. But I seriously doubt anyone would vote for another Bush..

I hope not anyway!

 

[Cold Truth]

formant, politics on all sides wanted this girl to live.. i fail to see how it is a bush issue at all, or why its somehow being made into a bush issue... bush really has no more to do with this then anyone else in politics right now.

 

[Formant024]

It doesn't matter, af is he isnt covered for after the shit goes down, there will be another hawk sitting there being the puppet president. As if Bush didnt listen to daddy and daddy bush wouldn't have sucked cock at .... 1400 companies further and you know how it goes by now. Shit's been in the making for since the kennedy's, that's how fucked up it this there.

Like said, you need a revolution overthere.

 

[Cold Truth]

^uuuhhhhhh

again, what does bush have to do with this?

this is about

whether or not this woman should be killed

and politically, it is far more then the bush brothers and the "religious right" who are advocating saving this womans life.

yet, somehow, someway, this too makes george w an evil man... seriopusly, like i said, how is bush and all this other stuff aouyt him being a puppet president, us needing revolution, all of those things, WHAT does it have to do with people from ALL walks of life advocating this womans right to live?