Sampling - Where to draw the line.

[L. Soul]

I'll sample whatever as long as it helps me practice

 

[djswivel]

No Rules, Sample ALL!!! Obviously, try to be original. Just because you can copy someone else's beat, it deosnt mean it's yours, it just means you know how to work your program/sampler etc.

But straight up, if you stumble onto some obscure sample that nobody's touched and it's a perfect loop. And you just wanna add drums and maybe bass, then do it!! Personally, even if I find a perfect loop, I will still chop it up a little bit to give it my own identity, but really, there are no rules. Rules just narrow your options and restrict you. And the last thing a real producer wants is restrictions!!!

 

[Haze47]

Yo, ill sample something that hasnet even been out 6 months, fuck it, who gives a shit really, in the words of Cold Truth, "if you freak it enough, no one can tell." love that phrase, "freak it," ohhh send shivers down me spine....

 

[Holly Scott]

if its fresh

The way I see it, Hip Hop has deep roots in sampling. From the DJ playing bits of pieces (the breaks) of other records. This is Hip Hop, sample whatever the fuck and how ever the fuck you want, be original though.

Word. Thats the best and only answer that has any validity. If u wanna talk about music per se thats one thing, but last I checked this was still a Hip-hop production site. As dResLo24 says, Hip hop started with the breaks.

Sampling is fundamental to hip hop - it keeps it alive - and theres nothing wrong with just ripping off a diana ross track, and putting a hip-hop beat to it, BECAUSE what really counts is how tight the mc(s) is. its just a framework for the rhymes. Shit real mcs dont even NEED a beat.

As long as its fresh thats all that counts

 

[L. Soul]

Really though I think producing now a days has gotten too advanced for its own good in its relevance to Hip-Hop. I mean yes, it's always been an artform within Hip-Hop along with MC's, DJ's, Graff Artists, etc. But I mean there were the days when producers walked hand-in-hand with MC's you put down a track that allowed them to flow, it didn't necessarily have a million changeups per second just so we could be like "OH YEAH THAT PRODUCER ILL!" It wasn't even about that. It was just about sampling something hittin them loops up get you some drums on it so that the MC could spit. It might have very few changeups in it. Just some loops, some added things here and there for the chorus maybe cut the loops every so often and play em in different order. It was just that Sample-loop-drums-MC.

Now producers are trying to outdo the MC's so people stop listening to the words and just listen to the producer. THat's not what it's about the beat is supposed to be the means through which the MC may transport their thoughts to you. It shouldn't be that MC's lyrics are the means through which producers transport their beats. That's not Hip-Hop.

 

[Daymo]

Really good point there mate. My MC and I have always attacked our projects the same way since day one. He comes up with a concept for the track then writes his rhymes to a basic drum loop that I’ve put together. Then once I get a feel for the lyrics and content of the song – I’ll put down the rest of the production. I’ve found that this allows me to create a beat that really compliments the content of the lyrics.

Hip hop for me is at its best when the production is slick but actually puts the focus on the MC rather than taking it from him.

Cheers
Daymo

 

[Hypnotist]

Really good point there mate. My MC and I have always attacked our projects the same way since day one. He comes up with a concept for the track then writes his rhymes to a basic drum loop that I’ve put together. Then once I get a feel for the lyrics and content of the song – I’ll put down the rest of the production. I’ve found that this allows me to create a beat that really compliments the content of the lyrics.

Hip hop for me is at its best when the production is slick but actually puts the focus on the MC rather than taking it from him.

I hear you. I've always favored sculpting a beat around the vocals. I like to produce the song from the beginning, when I'm writing the lyrics and have something musical in mind. Like... I wrote this song about drinking and sampled bottles and used them as a melody, blew across the bottles for flute-like sounds and played the chords on my ASR-10 keyboard. <a href="http://hypnotixhiphop.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/wishgiver.mp3" target="_blank">Check it out if you want.</a> Later, I found out that the LIKS did the same thing. But I did it differently, so it doesn't matter.

As a composer, I hate sampling other people's music. If you can do it creatively, and put your own spin on it, then I MIGHT give you credit as a composer, ONLY if you do some CRAZY melodic spin to it and add your own melodies.

If you just chop up a sample and drop some drums on it, I'd give you credit as a DJ/beatmaker, which is fine. But just know where you stand, that's all. Don't give yourself credit as a sick producer/composer if that's all you do.

The same thing stands for Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, or Diddy or Hey Diddle Diddle, whatever you call him. I will only give him credit as a businessman, and not so much for his creativity, especially as a lyricist. Producer, yes, because he has a goal in mind and something profitable comes out of it.

I'm not saying anything bad about anyone who does this. But I do know people who will take a sample, barely alter it, throw a kick, snare and hi hat on it, and THEN call themselves a sick producer. If it sounded hot and everyone loved it, or it sold at least a few copies, then I would call you a producer.

As long as you get the samples cleared with the original writer of the music, then there's no problem what you do. You could even sample a whole entire song, and say "hell yea" over the intro for all I care. Just give credit where it's due, that's all.

I've sampled before, and I've recorded over sampled-beats. But as a composer, I wouldn't want someone to sample anything I've done (it's happened before!) and not even give credit to me at all, AND say that THEIR beat is HOT. Hmmm, I wonder why your beat is so hot?

 

[L. Soul]

Well see we can't take that just as "why your beat is so hot?" Because yes there are some who don't do anything to their samples. When I say that it is Hip-Hop to not have a million change-ups and rather take it back to how it started with some drums and some loops cut out maybe chopped up I do not literally mean JUST looped up and drums all the way through. You've got to do something to the sample to really make it your own instead of a collaboration.

However, I don't think one can really say it is the original composer piece that made it hot. Because if all the producer did was scream "hell year" over the intro and maybe add a second kick that's not hot. Once they freak it and switch it up is what makes it up.

 

[JPeg]

sample whatever from where ever as long as u feel the sounds and can make something dope with it.

Why worry if a popular producer has used a sample u can use it in a different way (choped different, pitched up or down, etch) besides u making beats in ur room no one cares what u sample, sample clearnace aint an issue cos u dont have a fan base and u dont sell 2 chart topping mc's.

Madlib dont clear no samples and he is known world wide so really when ur in ur lab doing beats just do what u think sounds good.
All the issues of clearance and whether its been used b4 can be judged after the music is made, cos everything u make dont get released so make what u feel 1st think about the rest later.

 

[Hi-Lo]

I hear you. I've always favored sculpting a beat around the vocals. I like to produce the song from the beginning, when I'm writing the lyrics and have something musical in mind. Like... I wrote this song about drinking and sampled bottles and used them as a melody, blew across the bottles for flute-like sounds and played the chords on my ASR-10 keyboard. <a href="http://hypnotixhiphop.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/wishgiver.mp3" target="_blank">Check it out if you want.</a> Later, I found out that the LIKS did the same thing. But I did it differently, so it doesn't matter.

As a composer, I hate sampling other people's music. If you can do it creatively, and put your own spin on it, then I MIGHT give you credit as a composer, ONLY if you do some CRAZY melodic spin to it and add your own melodies.

If you just chop up a sample and drop some drums on it, I'd give you credit as a DJ/beatmaker, which is fine. But just know where you stand, that's all. Don't give yourself credit as a sick producer/composer if that's all you do.

The same thing stands for Puff Daddy, P. Diddy, or Diddy or Hey Diddle Diddle, whatever you call him. I will only give him credit as a businessman, and not so much for his creativity, especially as a lyricist. Producer, yes, because he has a goal in mind and something profitable comes out of it.

I'm not saying anything bad about anyone who does this. But I do know people who will take a sample, barely alter it, throw a kick, snare and hi hat on it, and THEN call themselves a sick producer. If it sounded hot and everyone loved it, or it sold at least a few copies, then I would call you a producer.

As long as you get the samples cleared with the original writer of the music, then there's no problem what you do. You could even sample a whole entire song, and say "hell yea" over the intro for all I care. Just give credit where it's due, that's all.

I've sampled before, and I've recorded over sampled-beats. But as a composer, I wouldn't want someone to sample anything I've done (it's happened before!) and not even give credit to me at all, AND say that THEIR beat is HOT. Hmmm, I wonder why your beat is so hot?

Exactly my thoughts. As an A&R scout I get sent a lot of beat CD's and a lot of the kids before they send them can't stop telling me how 'hot' their beats are and how sick of a producer they are. Then I get a CD with basically 8 jacked samples and simple drums put on each. Those beat CDs get thrown away with the quickness.

Create, people, don't copy.

 

[Fury]

I definitely follow the same rules as you, no other rap producers, and I try to stay away from well-known stuff.

I also, personally, have little respect for people who sample whole melodies and stuff like that. I mean, there are a lot of cats out there who just take an old song, slap some drums on it, and say they made a beat...I don't really see that as creative work, just theft.

man tell that to fuckin the producers who made classics outta samples.....and if u have a little respect for dudes like premier Rza Stoupe Alchemist HAvoc then idk about you

 

[Hypnotist]

However, I don't think one can really say it is the original composer piece that made it hot. Because if all the producer did was scream "hell year" over the intro and maybe add a second kick that's not hot. Once they freak it and switch it up is what makes it up.

I hear you. But... the birth of a new beat inspired by the sample of another can only be credited to the creativity of the original composer. That should be an acronym. TBOANBIBTSOACOBCTTCOTOC. Yeah. Had the original artist not given birth to the piece, there would be no hotness to begin with. Let's say it was this Chinese guy playing a string tied to a chicken and his left foot, and it was a far cry from hip hop. And Joe Fruity Loop samples it, chops it up, and drops a couple drums on it, and now it sounds "hot", but only to us hip hop heads. The Chinese guy listens to it and he pukes on his chicken and kills himself with his string. But our heads nod til our necks break and we say "THIS SHIT IS HOTTTTT SON!!!"

All I was saying is give credit to where it's due. Come up with your own shit whenever you can. And if you can never make your OWN beat, then stick to sampling. But please PLEASE, tell the Chinese guy I said whasssssaaap cuz he owes me some chicken.

 

[The Bastard]

id sample another producer and change it up, nuthin wrong wit the art of remixing

 

[L. Soul]

Hypnotist not to be offensive, but that's a real narrowminded view. Because, yes it is the original composer that makes it possible, but for proffesional producers (RZA, Premier, Havoc, Alchemist, etc.) it's so much more depth than just cut, paste, layer drums. There's a certain feel to working the sample. Also, we can't just view it if we're going to go as "The original composer won't think it's very hot, but Hip-Hop heads will" Because then you just delve too far into the opinion deal. Hip-Hop heads probably would have thought that original composition was the nastiest thing ever that ought to be locked away. If it wasn't for the musical genius of these sampling producers there would be no hotness. That has nothing to do singularly with either, but credited to both.

Also, if we're going to talk about people who compose. Odds are the melodies you all bang out have been played before. Music has been around long enough where the odds say what you will play and be credited with somebody else already played years and years ago. Nothing is original anymore, it's just come to reviving dead art and giving to the current generation. There are no more inventions, now it's just innovation.

 

[Hi-Lo]

man tell that to fuckin the producers who made classics outta samples.....and if u have a little respect for dudes like premier Rza Stoupe Alchemist HAvoc then idk about you

I clarified my original post later on. We aren't in disagreement.

 

[Hypnotist]

Hypnotist not to be offensive, but that's a real narrowminded view. Because, yes it is the original composer that makes it possible, but for proffesional producers (RZA, Premier, Havoc, Alchemist, etc.) it's so much more depth than just cut, paste, layer drums. There's a certain feel to working the sample. Also, we can't just view it if we're going to go as "The original composer won't think it's very hot, but Hip-Hop heads will" Because then you just delve too far into the opinion deal. Hip-Hop heads probably would have thought that original composition was the nastiest thing ever that ought to be locked away. If it wasn't for the musical genius of these sampling producers there would be no hotness. That has nothing to do singularly with either, but credited to both.

Also, if we're going to talk about people who compose. Odds are the melodies you all bang out have been played before. Music has been around long enough where the odds say what you will play and be credited with somebody else already played years and years ago. Nothing is original anymore, it's just come to reviving dead art and giving to the current generation. There are no more inventions, now it's just innovation.

No I completely hear you L. I'm not knockin the samplers or the cut-n-pasters or the actual SICK producers like RZA either. I used to sample a lot more than I do now (I actually haven't sampled in a long time) and I would put in a LOT of work into it. I would add a new bass line, arrange the rhythm of the drums so that they REALLY knock with the sample, cut shit out, filter, remove other shit, play a whole new piano part, and still leave it sounding rough like I didn't really do shit to it, while it still has this natural/cut-up, yin/yang style to it.

But there are some people who just take one little thing and cut it up really quick, and take literally 30 minutes out of their day, and it ends up sounding hot as hell, and they did their job right. But all I was saying is that if you ARE going that route, then know where you stand in the whole recording scheme, that's all. I wouldn't call it producing if it took you 30 minutes to throw it together, nor would I call it composing, obviously. I would give you credit for a hot ass beat though, and admit it that it was hot. But I just happen to be a real hard-ass when it comes to giving credit to the proper work. I've been doing this for so long I can notice when someone puts in work. And in a nut-shell, if my 12-year-old cousin can do it the same way or even better, with no audio or recording background, then you got some work to do to set yourself from the rest. I'm not easily impressed at all. Which sucks, because most of the public nowadays is satisfied with next to nothing because of how they are conditioned by what's on the radio.

Ok, sorry to turn this into radio politics, but that's just my stance. Yes, it's one-sided and some won't agree with me, but that's fine too. It's just that shit has changed since back in the days and it's not just a DJ and a MC anymore, unfortunately. I'm one of those people who know the roots of hip hop, love it all, but understand that hip hop is changing. Or... I have HOPE that hip hop will change for the better as far as the radio is concerned. I want to be one of those people who revolutionize it, and not just do the same old thing.

P.S. I wasn't offended, because I understand that I do have a narrow-minded view in this case. It's the one thing that I enjoy picking a side in order to continue to grow and be as unique as possible, and one day find my niche in this ever-shrinking industry.

Pce,
Hypno

 

[L. Soul]

Ok, see now I understand. Because it seemed to me as though you were saying that producers who sampled weren't real producers and that kind of threw me for a minute. But yes I agree if what you did takes only like half an hour there's no way you put it all in. I mean I don't even consider myself anywhere NEAR saleworthy production and the least it's takin me to make a beat is like an hour whereas the longest is like 3 and a half. But then these people sit here and say "yah I drop my beats in like 15 minutes" I start to wonder if they put their all into it.

 

[Hypnotist]

Hell yea. I mean, I've made a beat in 15 minutes before, but I at least said "Yo I made this beat in 15 minutes, and it's a track that can bring out your vocals and listeners won't pay too much attention to the beat." I got mad beats like that; some sampled, most of em composed.

But, see then there are the beats that took mad time. Some of em a few hours, a select few of them 10-20 hours!!! And by the time I sell them, it's like hacking off a piece of my hand. Even the people who DON'T compose can feel me on this one! It's like beats can be your own first born, and when you go to sell it, it's like a piece of you will be missing. How can one put a price tag on that one? I sell my "fifteen minute" beats for really cheap, sometimes even free, maybe with royalties or a license with contract. But when I compose something from the heart, man that's love, and it takes much more to part with that.

 

[Bloodybastid]

This is a good discussion right here. I think that people who make 4-5 beats trying to improve is making a mistake. That really isn't the best way to go about things. Your ears need to adjust to shit and can't do it that quickly. At leats for me. Because I know this kid who makes 4-5 beats a day, and guess what his method is. Looping, that's it. No chops, no additional components, no bass AT ALL. Just a loop over some drums. Now once in awhile he will find a dope ass loop, but most of the time his beats are lackluster because he doesn't have a good ear, he just loops anything literally. That's like the easy way out, it gets thing done faster. And most of his beats aren't very good.

Now, I don't have a problem with looping. I do it myself all the time, but I always try to make it sound interesting. I'm very very selective with my samples, and I usually loop half of the sample, and chop up the other half of it. Or I'll just throw in other elements to make it sound unique. But if I DO find a HOT HOT HOT sample which I can just loop, I'll do it. Believe me. But I never just work on something for 30 minutes and be done with it, I try to make it sound like I worked hard at it.

But the thing with this site is that a lot of people tend to over-produce. Because it seems they always criticize people for simple loops and simple beats. Always saying stuff like "add more stuff" or "add some change-ups"....sometimes if it sounds hot then you just have to leave it at that. But that's just me, I guess I'm just too used to Rza/ Premier/ Muggs/ Havoc production...keep it simple.

 

[damird]

But ours goes...

And their goes...

Its not the same!