real hip hop today

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eldiablo

KRACK HEAD
ill o.g.
When you add live instrumentation you've just added a whole lists of bullshit that your gonna have to deal with that will cost you more $$ and time in the long run, especially on an underground level. You need musicians and will they be willing to tour for a little of nothing? The time it takes to build and the ego's you have to deal with during this process. The extra cost to record and master a band. I have thought about this and have mettled around with it. But I feel this is something more on the lines of someone who is established already and may have financial backing. By all means if you know a bunch of talented musicians that don't already have a full schedule jump on. A quick reminder to anyone who wants to try this, if you don't do it right your gonna waste tons of time on something thats mediocre. Alot of musicians will have barriers that will show in your attempt to make live hip hop. Not everybody can find the roots, feel me?
 

classic

I am proud to be southern
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 90
When you add live instrumentation you've just added a whole lists of bullshit that your gonna have to deal with that will cost you more $$ and time in the long run, especially on an underground level. You need musicians and will they be willing to tour for a little of nothing? The time it takes to build and the ego's you have to deal with during this process. The extra cost to record and master a band. I have thought about this and have mettled around with it. But I feel this is something more on the lines of someone who is established already and may have financial backing. By all means if you know a bunch of talented musicians that don't already have a full schedule jump on. A quick reminder to anyone who wants to try this, if you don't do it right your gonna waste tons of time on something thats mediocre. Alot of musicians will have barriers that will show in your attempt to make live hip hop. Not everybody can find the roots, feel me?

sorry im gonna have to disagree on that one, ive recorded my Nicholas Kopernicus project using live musicians. www.myspace.com/nkopernicus
i used a saxophone player, horn section, Flute player, Guitar, Percussion, harmonica, everything coast under 200 bucks. Musicians are a dime a dozen and most are eager to record and work on something that is interesting. If you approach them correctly most will work for free, i only paid 200 because i wanted to...

on my current project ive already recoded guitar, Vibraphone and flute. I also have a string quartet lined up as well as a 4 piece horn section, acoustic bass, percussion etc. All this is costing me less then 300 bucks

Like anything else it takes practice, it may seem daunting at first but its really not, at times its easier working with live musicians as apposed to samples because you can get exactly what you want. After i have recorded their parts i treat them like samples and chop and rearrange them accordingly. so in essence its no different then sampling from a record. The only difference is the source of the sound.

But as the producer its your job to tell the musician what YOU want, i find that alot of bad experiences that people have with musicians stems from the producer not knowing how to communicate their ideas properly. Alot of cats expect the musician to show up and just play and do all the work, you need to direct them to your vision and tweak them just like you would tweak a synth patch. This is where the whole producer vs beat maker separation happens. A producer is going to know how to handle this and work with the musician to get the best performance out of them . The beat maker is just gonna sit there and expect the musician do come up with something.

Keep in mind you dont have to use pro's either, you can do down to the local highschool to get what you want. Hell i worked with a cat that i saw playing on the subway. Musicians are everywhere

Now touring with a band is another story. but again touring in general is a daunting task. Touring with a bunch of musicians would be no different then touring with a rbunch of rappers in a group. Their is always gonna be drama when groups of people go on tour

just my 2 cents
 

eldiablo

KRACK HEAD
ill o.g.
I know i said when you add live instrumentation, but i was talking along the lines of making it all work with no sampling chopping nothing!!!! just the band. Hard to pull off and be cool
 

L'Architect

Member
ill o.g.
But as the producer its your job to tell the musician what YOU want, i find that alot of bad experiences that people have with musicians stems from the producer not knowing how to communicate their ideas properly. Alot of cats expect the musician to show up and just play and do all the work, you need to direct them to your vision and tweak them just like you would tweak a synth patch. This is where the whole producer vs beat maker separation happens. A producer is going to know how to handle this and work with the musician to get the best performance out of them . The beat maker is just gonna sit there and expect the musician do come up with something.

Yep, after having a guitarist, bassist and saxophonist living in my building I can concur. They're all students like me who are more than happy to just play and have me record them. I then do the same thing as you, treat the recorded parts like samples and chop them up.

One main thing iv found though, is that there a lot of amateur mucisians that have learned and practiced on their instruments for some time, and have reached a high level, and yet just jamming, freestyling and composing is a daunting and alien thing for them, so they really need a lot of direction.

When I record some of these guys, I have to be in total producer mode, giving complete direction on how I want them to sound, even though they are the experts on their instruments, not me. This might mean going to the extent of getting them them to replay and slightly modify melodies and progressions from older records that you might want to sample, but can't solo that one instrument. I'm still trying to learn more about music theory, and scales and stuff, so I can give more technical guidance, and give more input to the musicians I jam with.

I think the problem with live instruments for BEATMAKERS like most of us, is in recording these instruments properly and mixing them into a track. When you're sampling you're capturing the way the sounds were recorded, the acoustics, the equipment, just as much as the sounds.
 

LouBez

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
I know i said when you add live instrumentation, but i was talking along the lines of making it all work with no sampling chopping nothing!!!! just the band. Hard to pull off and be cool


Its not really that hard....I do it every sunday with a group of musicians who make up three different bands and play 3 to 5 nights outta the week. I also live in South Florida so the talent pool is deep. Basically we all link at the homies house who has a great rehearsal space, turn on football, throw some jerk chicken in the oven and get to vibin (if we're lucky my girl will swing through wit some arroz con pollo). Its actually the easiest work flow I have ever delt with. Everybody in the room knows more than I do when it comes to actual music theory so its fun to learn while we work. Those problems you stated before about ego etc. etc., they are real but it all depends on who you work with and what their goal is. These guys have their own shit together, our project isnt the driving force in their musical careers so I deal with no ego's. They look at what we do as a passion project cause they are all from the 92-97 hip hop era and they just wanna make some hip hop that DOESNT sound like a lil gay 16 year old would loose his butthole virginity to.

Its all about vibes.

I mean as someone who used to swear by a MPC 2000 and a Roland JV 1080, and look at using computers and quantization as cheating I've come a long way. Most of the time when you are looking for samples its that one or two instruments you want to loop or chop, not the bass and the drum fill, or sometimes the vocals, so to have musicians to sample is a dream.

These guys are used to playing out full songs in their sessions, but when we work they just lay down a 2 or 3 minute track and then I get to sampling and arranging....The work flow is fast, everytime we lay a solid track someone packs the bong, chicks pass by, the dolphins loose, then we do it again next week. Easy....and its sounds clean.
 

eldiablo

KRACK HEAD
ill o.g.
I sample alot of bands noone has sampled before. defunct hard to impossible to find shit.
 
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