Question for the Ill Fam???

[Krazyfingaz]

I want to pose the question manily to producers that already have obtained placements but its also open to cats that havent obtined placements. I am trying to build a buzz as a producer aswell as get placements and I charge people that wanna buy beats for Non-exclusive $50 and for exclusive 150.00 - 200.00 but alot of the times based off the fact my first thing is to build a business relationship with the artist and to build up my rep I give away beats, only because I'm not a "known" producer. Is that a bad step to take because to me it seems like it can be a catch 22.

 

[Relic]

It is a catch 22, find an artist and build with them then [eople will know about your production skills and you can charge is one way of going about it

 

[Lazy Eyes]

Naw man, it's a good step. You can't expect people to pay for beats if you don't have a track record. You need to have some productions under your belt. Keep Grinding. When the work keeps coming in, and you run out of time to complete the tracks.. that's when you can start charging for beats man.

first off: Try and produce an album for a cat you know. that's hard as it is and shows you got producers skills.

 

[classic]

I think being and independent nobody, charging for beats its pretty played out... I mean it can be done but its almost like hustlin backwards these days... your best bet would be to find an artist or a group of artist and produce and album or EP and use that to build your buzz... trying to make it with just a beat CD these days just aint gonna work IMO( and im speaking from experince..)

Most people are looking for finished products.. so yea it is kinda a catch 22...

Jason

 

[Ash Holmz]

^^ cosign ....


bottomline is that music sells, beats dont. I say find a dope artist and make some music and put it out as partners. But at the same time, dont waste your time. dont fuc with somebody you dont believe in. dont fuc with somebody who is not as dedicated as you. it wont work out.

 

[dacalion]

I would say find someone who is also building a buzz but NEVER give your your work away free, even if its only around 50 bucks. Don't just give them away. Try to get with several different cats and spread yourself as wide as posible. Work more with those that are really trying to make moves, not just those that are the "local every now and then wanna be cats". Those that are doing shows and venues will be your best bet in the long run.

DAC

 

[Ash Holmz]

i disagree about charging ... i used to do all that 50 dollar crap, but its not worth it imo..ur first aim as a new producer should be to get ur name out and develop a reputation. Fast Money and a quality reputation typically dont mix. any fool can pay u hundred dollars, but do u really want ur name on something that sucks ass?

that said I dont consider a mutually benefiting collab as throwing beats away . I think thats the wrong term for it. I WILL lend a beat to an artist I respect in order to further promote myself, that i will do. they key findgin the artist that
1) is in love with ur music and understands ur visions (and u understand theirs)
2)is dedicated
3)is willing to take risks and put themselves out there

thats easier said than done. some people just record to impress their friends and shit, or just want to sound like someone who is already out, and dont put geniune effort, care, and originality into their music. i dont want someone like that on one of my tracks. there was a time when i didnt care and i would give a beat to whoever had some dough for me, but im kinda passed that. I think a problem with producers as that alot of cats think of this music making as a transaction but its art. bottom line imo as a new producer, one of the last things u should be thinking about is money. the first thing u should be thinking about is actually doing some producing. and if u aint working with an artist, u aint producing.

 

[Krazyfingaz]

Word, thanks illfam much appreciated!

i disagree about charging ... i used to do all that 50 dollar crap, but its not worth it imo..ur first aim as a new producer should be to get ur name out and develop a reputation. Fast Money and a quality reputation typically dont mix. any fool can pay u hundred dollars, but do u really want ur name on something that sucks ass?

that said I dont consider a mutually benefiting collab as throwing beats away . I think thats the wrong term for it. I WILL lend a beat to an artist I respect in order to further promote myself, that i will do. they key findgin the artist that
1) is in love with ur music and understands ur visions (and u understand theirs)
2)is dedicated
3)is willing to take risks and put themselves out there

thats easier said than done. some people just record to impress their friends and shit, or just want to sound like someone who is already out, and dont put geniune effort, care, and originality into their music. i dont want someone like that on one of my tracks. there was a time when i didnt care and i would give a beat to whoever had some dough for me, but im kinda passed that. I think a problem with producers as that alot of cats think of this music making as a transaction but its art. bottom line imo as a new producer, one of the last things u should be thinking about is money. the first thing u should be thinking about is actually doing some producing. and if u aint working with an artist, u aint producing.

Ash this is the exact answer I was looking for cause to me its not all about the money cause it will come especially when I'm working on making a "Brand" which will go far. Thanks fam!

 

[wizard]

u got to do what is best comfortable for you!!! but just keep in mind u dont have to sell every beat have a stash folders of throw away beats!!!
so when u are dealing with the artist when he/she comes to by a beat u can be like i throw u this for free!! to u it might not be much but to the artist who is buying it mean a whole lot one they dont have to spend money and 2 u make them feel like its not about the money even though it is!! they dont have to know!! so if u do decide to sell a eat for like 1200 they wont mind cuz u have hook them up in the past!! this once again gos with establishing a good business relation!! i think the price are at a comfortable rate but all so have some around that are more! if u get the artist comfortable at 50 to 100$$ then thats what they gonna expect!!! and when u start getting price happy they wont respect u and ya work!! i would keep doing ya thang but ease them into some high calibrated production that cost a little more!! dont keep ya self at that standard!!cuz in the end if u do u will end up as a 50$ 100$ beat producer!!
my sucess to u fam!!! but remember too to get more u got to give!!! and the returns will be crazy trust!!! i 'v been here befor!
good luck

holla!!

myspace.com/wawrecordshotmailcom

 

[Ash Holmz]

and i dont believe in the term "throwaway track" anymore .. imo its best to always put your best foot forward. even if its some local small time thing, come with heat. You never know. If a stranger hears your track they wont think. "Oh this is a (insert your name here) beat, i can tell this is a throwaway beat of his, he can do better". They are going to say "man that (insert your name here) is a shitty producer that beat sucks". When ur unknown, first impressions are everyhting so always put your best foot forward and go hard on everything that has your name attached to it. remember, ANYTHING has the potential to blow, look at the current crop of singles out. Nowadays you cant rule anything or anyone out from blowing up so always go hard everytime. IMO as always

 

[wizard]

wow jump down im my shit homes!! fall back man!!!
u must of not understood !!! a throw ayway doesnt have to be free it could be any beat
maybe a beat no one used before or maybe something that just got put away!!
but i do agree on putting ya best foot forward!!
and not for nothing yeah u are rite about the person who listens to them wont care if the beat is a throw away or not
anyhow!
the point i was trying to make is yeah go wit what mr ash said about putting ya best foot forward
but get ya self organized to a point so u have low costing beats and high costing beats but in the end it all got to sound good whether its a throw away or 50 dollar or a mr ash home classic beat!!!

 

[Formant024]

if you sell beats for 50 bucks then youre not taking yourself seriously or youre straight up wack lol, if i produce a beat on a job and a cat wants a hot beat then im thinking at least studiorates. I remember an offer i did for a latin artist who got a second budget after he blew the first one on god knows what he did and i made an offer for the whole album, proper studio, proper recording, proper engineering and proper production of course but hey its someone i know i can offer a lil something...turns out the label wont go for it, to expensive...what they want is a no-name producer who'll sell his beat for between 50-100 bucks, smash it together on an album with a recording engineer and sent it off to mastering...you will not get credit selling beats this way and the artist singin the tracks doesnt have any uniformity in regards to the featured tracks just a bunch tracks thrown together because it suits the label financially. This is typical but it also states the levels of production you encounter and the vast majority will want 50 dollar beats, unless you're established already...something which reminds me of the 85 percenters...

 

[dacalion]

hey its ok to disagree, everybody has their own views on how things should be done and what works for them. Personally, I just don't work for free if its something that I do or take seriously. I would charge something for my work if for no other reason than letting cats know that I'm for real about my music. You can find charity work any and everywhere these days.

With that said, if you where into realty, would you give your first few houses away free? If you started a new car lot, would you give away a few cars? To me, its the same concept. But to eachs own. I would prefer to be the cat that said "yeah, I got paid off that beat", versus being the cat that said "dude made millions off a song that I made and he didn't break me ish off of it."

like I said earlier, to eachs own. If you are serious about what you do, then do the same as people who are serious about what they do. That's my advice.

DAC

 

[skidflow]

just give away your heat for now...you can always make more heat. Thats love also. It'll soon pay off.

 

[djloccdown]

^^ cosign ....

But at the same time, dont waste your time. dont fuc with somebody you dont believe in. dont fuc with somebody who is not as dedicated as you. it wont work out.

That's the situation I'm in.
I want to find a good artist and work with them, but I don't know where to go. So many wack dudes on myspace, and nobody local is takin it seriously.

I'm focusing on remixes now, just to show that I can do better shit then the dudes they paid $1000's for a single beat.
What I want to focus on next is sending some beat samplers to underground artists, and seeing what happens.

Plus dudes sell their beats for like $10 non-exclusive, and $20 exclusive on all these beat selling sites.
I mean WTF? Are u that desperate to get money?

 

[dacalion]

starting out its not about making money, its about creating a buzz and making a statement. The statement being that you're serious and you are a businessman that's seeking compensation for a service.

I can't grasp the concept of providing any service for somebody and not looking to get paid something for it whether its $10 or $10,000. Chances are, you didn't get your gear free so why would you use it for free? Its just not a logical thought process. You don't get out of the gutter by doing ish free. Its more like selling yourself out or screwing yourself out of money that you earned.

Anyway, Ive said my piece and I don't want to appear as if Im trying to convince anybody that I know it all but one thing that I do know is how business works and giving your product away free is not the key to make you successful.

As for finding those who are making a buzz now, check music sites that show who's being played the most, contact record label A&R's and ask who's got a buzz right now, contact DJ's and ask them. The cats making a buzz are out there and are making themselves availiable to anyone that can keep the buzz going. Use every resource you can think of to find and contact these people. Success isn't hard to find, getting in it for the long run is.

Good luck
DAC

 

[Relic]

So your saying that companies NEVER give anything away free?
Dope dealers never give anyone free crack at the start up?

I grasp the concept of getting pad for music, its just I cant seem to get the reality, lol, additionally thats what I tell everybody that I charge, the gear didnt come free, I need some $$.. They dont seem to be able to grasp that.

 

[Ash Holmz]

i am not saying that you should not paid for your work. I like checks too. what i disagree with is the whole idea that as a new producer you are "providing a service". You are not providing a service if u are an unknown producer! You are trying to create a name for yourself! Its a mutually benfitial thing! If u feel that way then you probably shouldnt be working with that artist if u feel that $50 is going to get in the way of you making a great record! You are trying to get some credits to your name! Thats my whole beef. that people have the mentality that they are somehow degrading themselves by allowing an artist to spit over their tracks that otherwise would be sitting on their hard drive collecting dust. You got to earn your stripes somehow. You gotta learn how to record, how to work with an artist, how to make a record. you gotta get a rep. get a buzz. Then after that is done you can charge. Otherwise you will never make more than 50 -100 per track. ever. Grind till u get tp the point where people are hunting you down to get music from you. If u bought a console yesterday does that mean you can go charging people for mixing services right away w/o any experience? .. Hell No. You got to get EXPERIENCE whether it be being an assistant to an engineer with more experience or just mixing stuff for free until you get to the level where u CAN throw numbers around and feel comfortable knowing that your work will back up your price. same thing with producers. It baffles me how people who have never even worked with an artist or completed/produced a full song are trying to charge people.

BTW this is just talking about brand new producers. and does not apply to individuals with experience, credits, steady clients, track record, buzz , contacts, connections etc...

 

[Formant024]

lol, brand new producers need to learn...in the least 2-3 years and that isnt regards hiphop in particular but all electronic music productions...there's no one i can work with who has lesser experience as he would not comprehend the level i work on (not being arrogant here, but most think i talk numbers only on any topic). Anyone below this level who calls himself superproducer is bound to make a fool of himself when working with pro's or hes smart and shuts the F up and listen. Anyone buying tracks of dudes like these just plain dumb or clueless (puts money on the last one)

 

[shadeed]

LOTS of good posts in this thread - good topic. I think many beatmakers who aspire to be in-demand producers need to understand the difference between "making money" from beats and "creating value" for their music. It's a big difference.

First off, stop thinking of beatmaking as a way to pay your bills - many of today's in-demand producers had to struggle for many, many years with that mentality until they produced projects that created value for their sound. If you want to "make money" doing music, then you would be better suited opening a project studio and charge by-the-hour for recording and mixdown services.

Bottom-line: If you're gonna make it in today's state of music, you're gonna do a lot of stuff "on the strength", pro bono, or whatever you wanna call it other than FREE.

In fact, the mentality of today's up-and-coming producer can be summed up in the statement below:

Every beat you create is nothing more than a demo until that next beat becomes your first hit record.

Your only objective is to create value/demand for your music.
Value is when the labels call you to produce projects for their artists, or when you're generally in demand.
Value is when you have a certain chemistry with an artist and they hit you up to produce their entire mixtape or street album.

Your goal is to get your name hot. Build a buzz, create a brand to market that buzz. Build a team to keep the brand growing. Rinse and repeat.

The music business is a game of relationships and who-knows-who. A beat CD can only get you so far, and if you walk around like an Audio Paypal (pay-per-beat) then you'll only get as far as the $$$ will take you.