Production Roundtable

[RhymnRzn]

for asmuch as i know hip hop past, present, future, i would say it's all about the heart of the musician and God's provision.

i am in need of some improvisation, like where the old jazz musicians was practically talkin to one another with instruments, and brothers was sharpening one another . we gotta forsake self-will and do what the Bible says, that we should not seek our own but other peoples wealth, bearin one another's burdens, and be of the same mind and judgement. we should commune, taking the eternal vintages of hip hop and righteousness, which will not cease to prosper in brotherhood the fellowships of peace.

the struggle for hip hop today is in the face between God and the Devil, truth and lies, fair use and excesses: hip hop does not have a life line and neither do we, if eternal life abounds by the only means possible. awesome sound is a must, but not more than the words and spirit: otherwise rot in the corruption to be rejected.

in the cyphers of believers the Almighty dwells, and no man has too much no man has lack: iron sharpens iron, and we all gain the better. do like, lets say, a setup with a turntablist, and say, midi boards connect to soft-samplers and drum machine, got the rotation going, the recorder be set for an hour session, and m-seein can be graft in: musical genius is best with God gifted pourpose and improvisation.

 

[Copenhagen]

If we leave r&b/rap produtions out and only concentrate on hip-hop production, then I hear a lot of innovative new stuff, but also a lot that needs to polished. I hate it when you hear these weird crap beats and everyone embraces them as being the realest of the realest just because it's so weird that its 500% sure that it will never hit mainstream, and therefore as underground as you get...

otherwise, I think that Big La and Killah speak alot on my behalf too...

 

[labay1]

Production today is generic. It sounds like 3 people do all the beats. Labels want that "same sound ", so everyone tries to sound like it. It's a balance between sounding commercial and being original. To me, it's about bringing your own background into your music, and not trying to be a soundalike. I try to play live instruments as much as I can on my stuff. That's how Hip Hop is gonna grow.

 

[" Killah! "]

Quoted from Copenhagen:

I hate it when you hear these weird crap beats and everyone embraces them as being the realest of the realest just because it's so weird that its 500% sure that it will never hit mainstream, and therefore as underground as you get...

I totally agree with you... most of the underground beats, in my opinion suck massively. Though "Nas" is not necessarily underground, I think many of his songs suffer because the beat sucks so much ass in comparison to his lyrics.

It seems to me that "Nas" knows what he's doing, because, like you said, having those crap beats make him "real," therefore, he'll always have a hardcore fanbase to make him go platinum. If he "sells out" which he almost did with "Oochie Wally" and "Nastradamus," then he loses that fanbase.

Anyway...

 

[Fade]

^^Yes. I've always noticed that with undeground stuff. Just because it's "real", then everyone thinks it's dope, when in fact the beats are garbage. Of course there are some dope underground joints out there, but most of them need lots of improving.

 

[MarkN]

I think the originality is what's lacking in todays rap music, artists are being hooked up with the same producers although this is often not their choice but a choice of their label. I think the problem with producing starts when you instantly recognise a particular producers beats just by the way it sounds, isn't the whole point to be original and innovative, when the neptunes came out they were fresh but now they just seem to be falling into the same trap everyone else did and there songs sound all to similar these days ! The songs coming out at the moment also seem rushed and machine like in that they don't really have any feeling in them, there was a time when the music was all about artists and producers expressing themselves, now it seems more of a corporate machine to make money ! The same machine rappers and producers used to hate when they were 'underground' ! Once the feeling has gone out of the music there really isn't much left all that remains is the same processed garbage for kids ot listen all day long !

 

[Funkworm]

Wsup People. New to the site and I'm diggin this topic. What I would like to see more in hip-hop are albums produced by one producer. I'm sick and tired of cookie-cutter albums with songs that have no continuity. I prefer my albums to flow like a book with every song sounding like chapters of the same body of work.
(the Chronic, Mobb Deep, Gangstarr, Public Enemy,)ect..Records like these have an epic feel to them. I don't know why R&B and Hip Hop are the only music genres to consintantly use 5 or 6 producers to produce an album. I think this has contributed to the demise of hip hop because these joints lack vision.

 

[Treynine39]

Hunger

I believe most of the artists and producers fall off due to the lack of hunger. Think about it, Nas, Jay-Z, Nelly, DMX, Ja Rule and many other artists first album was hot, then they kinda fell downward after that. That's because when doing that first album, they were hungry and putting all their feelings into it. Then it took a spark for Nas to do that Stillmatic, but if Jay-Z didn't spark that hunger again, we probably would have had another album like QB's Finest.

I also think producers get that way too. After their style is sought after by all these labels and artists, they figure they don't need to put as much effort into their tracks knowing that their name alone will push units and keep their schedule book filled.

All I'm saying is, if you make it, remember how it was when you had nothing, and keep making tracks as if it can all be taken away. Stay hungry.

 

[Fade]

I agree with having 1 or 2 producers for the whole album, and making it seem fluid like a book from beginning to end.

Look at Mobb Deep's "Infamous" LP. All the tracks have that same sound/vibe which made it so hot. Same thing for Stillmatic, Low End Theory, Nation of Millions... etc. LOL, today when I read an album review or an interview with some artist, they're always saying the same thing; that they have a "little something for everyone on here". That's just plain stupid. If I wanna hear some smooth beats, I'll buy an album from an artist that does just that. If I want to hear some southern rap, I'll pick up a CD from Nappy Roots or something.

Showing diversity on your LP by having many different producers with many different styles is interesting, but it has sadly become a staple in today's rap music.

And Treynine39, you're right, a lot of producers are able to sell tracks and become popular just off their name alone. I mean, I've heard terrible beats from well known producers! It amazes me the amount of junk that gets out there, but like you said, the record labels are asking for more and more, forcing some producers to just put out almost anything, just so they'll get paid.

 

[DJ Equity]

Originally posted by Fade


I think the current state is quite stale. Nothing exciting coming out, everything just seems rushed. It seems like producers are happy with just creating a 4 or 8 bar loop and looping it for 4 minutes, then calling it a "song".


i think what fade was saying is true but you have to understand that producers are rushed by the hectic lives of the artists theyre working for , with all their promotion and touring ,the time that is given to the producers is to short to produce a peice of good quality work. for instance Illmatic Nas`s first album was a masterpeice and correct me if im wrong that took sometink like five years to make because it was his day bue. every album after that didnt seem to measure up to its standard.

although i must admitt most producers today are just probably shit with a platinum name

EQ

 

[afriquedeluxe]

im sick of people usin beats dat hav been used b4, like dat woman usin 'mo money mo problems' i think its amerie, da ja rule gurl using b.i.g.'s trck, j-lo usin dat beat, man am tired of it.

 

[D-Cypha Soulz]

we honestly need to go back to the days when only like one-three producers produced a whole album....

 

[Copenhagen]

Originally posted by afriquedeluxe
im sick of people usin beats dat hav been used b4, like dat woman usin 'mo money mo problems' i think its amerie, da ja rule gurl using b.i.g.'s trck, j-lo usin dat beat, man am tired of it.

Its correct that those beats have been used before but its actually Diana Ross' "I'm comin out" that both Amerie and Big, Mase & Diddy have used...and DeBarge's "Stay with me" that both Ashanti and Big have used.
I am sick of it too, but I understand why...these money hungry btiches and their labels have been seeking a hit to sample...and since most of the oldies have been used again and again...their have now started taking Hip-Hop tracks that were hits...shame on them.

Oh yeah, is it only me...but J-Lo ain't that pretty is she...and she sings like SHIT!

 

[L-LaMENT]

Does anybody agree that Most mojor hip hop labels have lost creativity, as far as production is conserned?

 

[new2thegame]

I don't think most major hip-hop labels have lost creativity. There has 2 be diversity thru hip-hop. Meaning their is the commercial shit & then the street shit. From a producer standpoint I think things are tight. Every1 must remember that timbaland & neptunes paid there dues. I remember listening 2 them old 100% ginuwine beats thinking timb was a genius or listening 2 ma$e "lookin at me" <---produced by the neptunes. These cats constitently drop beats so they deserve 2 get paid. As far as major labels, their only concern is money. And with every1 downloading music off the internet, there pockets r hurt'in. Commercial hip-hop wont die as long as we have clubs & girls. Personally I hate sampling old music. But peeps like kayne west are getting paid (cant hate on that). Do what works 4 u!

And 4 the guy that said rappers are falling off. Yes 2pac,big,nas,jay-z,dmx had great first albums. But if they never saw some commercial status, u probably never would of heard of them........

anywayz food 4 thought peace you'll

 

[DJ Equity]

I hate the fact that when an artist who has sampled parts of old songs bring a hit out and anyone who hasnt heard the old version thinks its original and that artist gets the credit

EQ

 

[Guevara]

record labels dont give a shit about creativity or no name niggas, more han half the artist out now are signed to Major labels (everyone is signed to a major label) are signed to labels who r run by people who dont know anything or care about hip hop, even if its their department, so they get thir monthly hip hop update and they see whos hot and they work with that.see who they can USE to make their annual BILLIONS.i personally appreciate a good sample, nigga like me dont have triton keyboards and motifs, but i do have a record player and a computer, an once u actually work like this u come to appreciate any method of production, when u listen to people like tim and the neptunes from a producers point of view it kinda blows u away whenu break down the layers and u really listen to this shit that was built from scratch, but if you understand that with a sample u r also workin from scratch because there are so many things to do with one record, then if u listen to a dude like the alchemist or dj premier who can break down samples an cut and layer a sample so when u hear the song u cant even tell its a sample or u know the song but u dont know how the fuck it was put together to create a newjoint, and when u get a hold of the original piece its like wow, yes their are lazy producers who takes little loops and extend em, but their r great producer whos primary methods are sampling, and as much as i HATE the "ROC" i have to say that Kanye West works wonders with samples, especially obscure samples (hence "digging") he did it on talib kwelis "get by" (nina simones "sinnerman") so did alchemist on saigons "what am i gonna do" (the o'jays "i swear i love noone but u") so just bcause we sample, doesnt mean we dont work, ANYTHING cant be sampled...Peace

 

[Guevara]

anything CAN be sampled*.....my bad

 

[Copenhagen]

Originally posted by DJ Equity
I hate the fact that when an artist who has sampled parts of old songs bring a hit out and anyone who hasnt heard the old version thinks its original and that artist gets the credit

EQ

LOL, I remember when youngsters were giving Puffy and Mase credit for the "Can't nobody hold me down" song...damn that shit was so sad that it was funny. Like Grandmaster Flash (and Matthew Wilder for that matter) had never existed...

 

[Copenhagen]

Originally posted by Guevara
...yes their are lazy producers who takes little loops and extend em...

How come Hi-Tek and Dre came into my mind when reading this...?

Man I was disappointed when I heard Jakob Magnusson's "Burlesque in Barcelona" and fond out that Hi-Tek had just taken 2 breaks from this song and looped them into 2 seperate new songs, one of them being "round & round"...and that's not the first time with Hi-Tek...
And Dre...damn I've found quite some samples now that have just been looped and some drums added...
But then again, it also takes skills to find the right sample...and I still consider them among the best producers and like their shit...so why am I ranting like an old lady