Please sign my petition

[StressWon]

"I also have faith that the American people can collectively decide on their leader"

WOW umm the general public is easily misled and the opinion changes with the wind. Where do you live BTW? are you really worried about 3 electorial votes. CA gets 50 also after reading your link it is clear that ONLY WY is weighted that way. Do you really think its fair that they get one vote? Also do you think it is fair that if %30 of the people in CA vote for something and %70 vote another way that %100 of the electorial go to the %70? Where is the voice of the %30. Please read some history books, learn a little more about the process.

"they were a bunch of slave owners,,,there credibility is null. "

So the people that started the greatest country of all time have no credibility? That's just sad.

"It's a bunch of quotes from 225 years ago"

BTW its 3 quotes from 225 years ago, the rest of the article is from I think 2006. Please read it before you argue about it.

You know whats fair,,,letting every tax paying citizen have their voice respected. It is a VOTE. Votes are plain and simple. The majority rules. I know what the electoral vote is. Please don't tell me to read history books. History books? Seriously? We have the worst education for a supposed "Super Power". This is why the people who run our government are still creating their own rules and are shitting on our great Constitution. I know, the electoral vote is part of the Constitution, but come on bro,,,how long ago has it been written? Let everybody get a say. What do you care if Joe Shmo from Idaho votes for the wrong person and convinces others to do the same? Then what makes that candidate a "wrong person". It all comes back to opinion, which is all it is. Nine times out of ten the candidates are fuckin lying thru their teeth just to get a vote.

Sure the public is misled. The majority of the members here laugh and scoff at shit me and 2Good posted in the past years and the majority of what we said has come to fruition. I understand that point. But that's not the point. The point is if I have to give up half of my fuckin earnings from my income. (Which is not legal,,,the income tax law was never passed through enough states...) I want to be able to have a say in MY president. Win or lose,,,let my vote count. Instead it's some state rep asshole who probably blows dudes in airport bathroom stalls or goes after hooker rings only to be caught himself.


and yeah, our founding fathers talked all that "Every man created equal..." and as they we're together writing their doctrines, black folks were serving tea and fuckin krumpets. Now that's sad.



I love this country, but I hate when elected officials get in and start fuckin wit the laws thats all. We just need to update things already. I don't know about you, but I think most of us in the States would like our fair share.

 

[The Arkitekt]

You know whats fair,,,letting every tax paying citizen have their voice respected. It is a VOTE. Votes are plain and simple. The majority rules. I know what the electoral vote is. Please don't tell me to read history books. History books? Seriously? We have the worst education for a supposed "Super Power". This is why the people who run our government are still creating their own rules and are shitting on our great Constitution. I know, the electoral vote is part of the Constitution, but come on bro,,,how long ago has it been written? Let everybody get a say. What do you care if Joe Shmo from Idaho votes for the wrong person and convinces others to do the same? Then what makes that candidate a "wrong person". It all comes back to opinion, which is all it is. Nine times out of ten the candidates are fuckin lying thru their teeth just to get a vote.

Sure the public is misled. The majority of the members here laugh and scoff at shit me and 2Good posted in the past years and the majority of what we said has come to fruition. I understand that point. But that's not the point. The point is if I have to give up half of my fuckin earnings from my income. (Which is not legal,,,the income tax law was never passed through enough states...) I want to be able to have a say in MY president. Win or lose,,,let my vote count. Instead it's some state rep asshole who probably blows dudes in airport bathroom stalls or goes after hooker rings only to be caught himself.


and yeah, our founding fathers talked all that "Every man created equal..." and as they we're together writing their doctrines, black folks were serving tea and fuckin krumpets. Now that's sad.



I love this country, but I hate when elected officials get in and start fuckin wit the laws thats all. We just need to update things already. I don't know about you, but I think most of us in the States would like our fair share.

Shiiiiittttt, you got my signature.

 

[thedreampolice]

"Please don't tell me to read history books. History books? Seriously? We have the worst education for a supposed "Super Power". "

Yes I am talking about real history books, our education is a joke. That's why its up to us to learn the truth.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

 

[dahkter]

WOW umm the general public is easily misled and the opinion changes with the wind.

I don't get your argument. Your logic is that since people are easly influenced and can collectively make bad choices that their rights should be taken away or lessened? In the case of the electoral college, people's rights are lessened as their votes are mathematically less valuable if they live in a state with a high urban concentration. Regarding the opinion of the public, they made a horrible choice with Bush in 2000 and 2004, however they made a great choice with Obama in 2008 (IMO of course). The reason Obama won was due to the young people that were not eligible to vote in 2004. They voted 2 - 1 for Obama over McCain.

Where do you live BTW? are you really worried about 3 electorial votes.

I live in New York. The votes of the people in my state are the 46th weakest of anyone on the link that I provided. I believe that this is unfair and erroneous. I am not "worried" per se, however I will call a spade a spade. The electoral college is bullshit.

CA gets 50 also after reading your link it is clear that ONLY WY is weighted that way. Do you really think its fair that they get one vote? Also do you think it is fair that if %30 of the people in CA vote for something and %70 vote another way that %100 of the electorial go to the %70? Where is the voice of the %30.

Only Wyoming is weighted that way? What are you talking about? There is no weighting. I posted a simple table showing the value of each person's vote depending on what state they live in. There is no bias to that table. It simply proves that those living in states with large population in urban areas have a weaker vote than those living in the middle of the country. Do I think that it's fair that the people in Wyoming get one vote? Well first of all, they get three not one (two senators + one congressman = 3 votes). Do I think it's fair? Of course not, it's idiotic, THEY SHOULD GET ONE VOTE FOR EACH CITIZEN - 506,529 VOTES, NOT THREE! You are asking me where is the voice of the 30%, exactly, this is why the current system of the electoral college is so stupid. If your state wins by one popular vote, all of the electoral votes of your state go to the winner. this is unfair and illogical. It's a vote for the president, not a sporting event. Every one's vote should count equally.

"they were a bunch of slave owners,,,there credibility is null. "

So the people that started the greatest country of all time have no credibility? That's just sad

It's not sad at all, it's a fair point. If someone wants to question the validity of someone's quote from 225 years ago, I think that's completely reasonable. Their motives are completely different from those of us living in modern day society.

Of course the framers of the constitution had great ideas and provided an excellent framework for this country to grow and prosper. However don't overlook the fact that this country has an incredibly hideous, ugly, violent past. The wealth of this country was built on the back of 400 years of free labor provided by the slaves, and the land this country was built on was obtained by methodically killing millions of Native Americans.

"It's a bunch of quotes from 225 years ago"

BTW its 3 quotes from 225 years ago, the rest of the article is from I think 2006. Please read it before you argue about it.

You didn't provide the link to any of your quotes, send me the links and I will read the articles.

 

[thedreampolice]

"The wealth of this country was built on the back of 400 years of free labor provided by the slaves, and the land this country was built on was obtained by methodically killing millions of Native Americans."

again read history and you will find that those are not %100 true statements. BTW Look at how nebraska handles electorial college it actually makes lots of sense. Again we do not live in a democracy, we live in a republic. So we vote on who votes one the president.

 

[dahkter]

"The wealth of this country was built on the back of 400 years of free labor provided by the slaves, and the land this country was built on was obtained by methodically killing millions of Native Americans."

again read history and you will find that those are not %100 true statements. BTW Look at how nebraska handles electorial college it actually makes lots of sense. Again we do not live in a democracy, we live in a republic. So we vote on who votes one the president.

What's not true about the genocide of Native Americans? What's not true about the infrastructure of this country being built with free slave labor?

No offense, but this "read history" is a crock of shit, if you have any concrete links or info that refutes what I'm saying, let me know. Saying a historical fact is 100% true can be difficult, of course, however some events are considered fact until disproven (such as the two examples I gave above).

Regarding the republic vs democracy, I understand what you're getting at, that the electoral college reinforces the states role as making up the country. I think it's a weak argument, states rigts are zero, the Feds run the show (and have been running the show for the last 135 years!). Federal Law supersedes State Law, if a State does something the Feds don't like, the Feds will threaten to take away their highway money (or anti-terror money). A national election should be an electoin by the people, for the people where each vote counts equally.

OK with agreeing to disagree, and enjoy the debate. Just want to note that I still see no point or logic in your argument (no offense again, just being honest).

Take care,
Jay

 

[Krazyfingaz]

i'm number 10

 

[StressWon]

word,,,this is a good healthy debate. Glad to see no one gettin all serious and bitchin out like most threads.

I understand the points made, but look at it this way, Republic. Democracy. Our country is more, way more then just that. The problem as well is that the people who represent the "republic" and "democracy" are so fuckin corrupt that this argument is almost a waste of energy. I think we need to change the country with the laws we have in place. Problem is, nobody knows what their true rights are.

 

[Relic]

On a side note- What things did you and 2Good predict that have come to "fruition"?

Oh and let me point out that the thing I predicted(Obama winning) has come true and THAT CAT is doing what he said he would do and its going to work. First president elect I have ever seen that is getting busy and making shit start happening from the get go. Bra man is serious about this shit.
I love it!

 

[StressWon]

On a side note- What things did you and 2Good predict that have come to "fruition"?

Oh and let me point out that the thing I predicted(Obama winning) has come true and THAT CAT is doing what he said he would do and its going to work. First president elect I have ever seen that is getting busy and making shit start happening from the get go. Bra man is serious about this shit.
I love it!

I know somehwere I mentioned oil prices would go down before bush leaves office. I'm pretty sure 2 mentioned this too. And I also mentioned the pardons before. They will go down soon,,,Rumsfeld, Gonzales, etc. and not to sound too conspiracy theorist,,Clinton is involved in Obama's administration and will have a strong influence of the universal health coverage. Although she didnt get in, on a thread (which I think me and you were talkin about) it will go into a system where if you don't go to your scheduled visits and such, this will cause penalties and fees. I'm tryin to find some links......



I hear you on Obama but don't jump the gun yet. I want him to succeed as much as any patriotic American. It's a long road and we have to see where this goes. Remember, can't have change when the same people who fucked up our economy are in his "Economic Team". Bernanke? Dude's a fuckin hustler...(Jay Z playin the background...)

 

[thedreampolice]

"problem as well is that the people who represent the "republic" and "democracy" are so fuckin corrupt that this argument is almost a waste of energy. I think we need to change the country with the laws we have in place. Problem is, nobody knows what their true rights are."

I can't agree with you more on this one. That is really the bottom line problem.

"Where There Is No Vision the People Perish"

I said this once and I will say it again. Nothing will change in this country as long as the average joe has cable TV and pizza delivery. Life is too easy at that point to get off his ass and do anything.

I think you all know me well enough that I don't believe any president is really going to change things. I don't think one could if he wanted to. That's why our lives/fortune/dreams/futures are up to us. I am starting my own business and going to make my millions the old school American capitalist way. I am not going to wait for a hand out from the president or a grant from the government. I am going to do it, on my own steam. I came from tremendous poverty and have clawed my way out. But I still have a long way to go. NO PRESIDENT OR GOVERNMENT helped me do that. I worked to support a family move up in my job while going to school and trying to do side jobs to fund the next adventure. For the last 6 years I have been making more money than my father ever did. I will be a millionaire in the next 10 years and American capitalism and education is how I will do it. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

 

[StressWon]

"problem as well is that the people who represent the "republic" and "democracy" are so fuckin corrupt that this argument is almost a waste of energy. I think we need to change the country with the laws we have in place. Problem is, nobody knows what their true rights are."

I can't agree with you more on this one. That is really the bottom line problem.

"Where There Is No Vision the People Perish"

I said this once and I will say it again. Nothing will change in this country as long as the average joe has cable TV and pizza delivery. Life is too easy at that point to get off his ass and do anything.

I think you all know me well enough that I don't believe any president is really going to change things. I don't think one could if he wanted to. That's why our lives/fortune/dreams/futures are up to us. I am starting my own business and going to make my millions the old school American capitalist way. I am not going to wait for a hand out from the president or a grant from the government. I am going to do it, on my own steam. I came from tremendous poverty and have clawed my way out. But I still have a long way to go. NO PRESIDENT OR GOVERNMENT helped me do that. I worked to support a family move up in my job while going to school and trying to do side jobs to fund the next adventure. For the last 6 years I have been making more money than my father ever did. I will be a millionaire in the next 10 years and American capitalism and education is how I will do it. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

word up man,,,thats the right attitude to have.

and i cosign wit TV and pizza. I find my PS3 got me on lock son,,,,LOCK!

 

[Shonsteez]

Not everyones looking for a handout believe it or not tho.
Matter of fact many people work just as hard as you and come from the same or worse backgrounds and plan to make a life for themselves through their own work just as you Dream...
I get a hint of this sort of snide naiveté from you with comments like that.
No ones gonna become a millionaire with handouts anyways, thats ridiculous.

 

[skidflow]

Remember we DO NOT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY in the US will live in a republic.

"Tyranny of the Majority
To be brutally honest, the Founding Fathers did not give the American public of their day much credit for political awareness. Here are a few relevant quotes from the Constitutional Convention of 1787.

"A popular election in this case is radically vicious. The ignorance of the people would put it in the power of some one set of men dispersed through the Union, and acting in concert, to delude them into any appointment." -- Delegate Gerry, July 25, 1787

"The extent of the country renders it impossible, that the people can have the requisite capacity to judge of the respective pretensions of the candidates." -- Delegate Mason, July 17, 1787

"The people are uninformed, and would be misled by a few designing men." -- Delegate Gerry, July 19, 1787.

The Founding Fathers had seen the dangers of placing ultimate power into a single set of human hands. Accordingly, they feared that placing unlimited power to elect the president into the politically naive hands of the people could lead to a "tyranny of the majority." In response, they created the Electoral College system as a process to insulate the selection of the president from the whims of the public.

Preserving Federalism
The Founding Fathers also felt the Electoral College system would enforce the concept of federalism -- the division and sharing of powers between the state and national governments.

Under the Constitution, the people are empowered to choose, through direct popular election, the men and women who represent them in their state legislatures and in the United Sates Congress. The states, through the Electoral College, are empowered to choose the president and vice president. "

"The Electoral College allowed us to isolate the problem and deal with it on a micro level. Without the present system the problem would have been magnified dramatically as nationwide recounts would have been required. It is very difficult to contest 50 different elections. For this same reason, the Electoral College also prevents massive voter fraud. For example, California is considered a “safe state” for Democrats. Were California (the nation’s most heavily populated state) to engage in massive voter fraud, it would be of little benefit to the Democrats because no matter how many Democratic votes are counted, the state still only has 55 electoral votes. The same can be said of Texas, or any other Republican “safe state.” Were a direct popular vote in place these heavily populated states would have a much greater incentive for fraud. Because these states are so clearly dominated by one party, prosecutors are unlikely to look into charges of fraud for fear of retribution. The Electoral College prevents much of the motivation for fraud. The Electoral College also promotes and protects our two-party system, which promotes stability and certainty. “Without a two-party system,” Ross explains, “the electorate would splinter its votes among many candidates. Multi-candidate presidential races would result in constant recounts, uncertainty, and consistent runoffs.” John Fortier warns against systems with a large number of political parties. “At the end of the day coalitions have to be built, a majority must be reached. This often results in behind the scenes deals. Our system is very transparent.” The Electoral College may be imperfect as Alexander Hamilton concedes in Federalist No. 68, but it is nevertheless excellent. The moderation and stability it promotes protects and preserves our freedom. It is one of the crowning achievements of our Founders and should be revered as such.
"

Need any more info on why its a good thing???

you dont speak for the people...thats for sure. You represent the secret evil thats plagued man since the beginning of time...at the end of the day its all about total freedom. Boy if I ever see you in politics...Ima buy me a dark blue 89 impala with a hole in the trunk and start traveling until I find you. lol.

 

[dacalion]

Stress I know this is a serious issue but damn its halarious how certain topics turn into SERIOUS debates! Religon, Politics and Race topics just get beat up in general. Whats right for some is wrong for others and vice versa...ITS A NO-WIN SITUATION!!!!

Peace Kings,
dac

 

[thedreampolice]

"I get a hint of this sort of snide naiveté from you with comments like that."

Sorry not what I intended

skidflow do you really think that the masses make good decisions? Really?

 

[Relic]

^^^Hey they pick the American Idol every year dont they??

 

[thedreampolice]

ha ha, thats right! My bad.

 

[skidflow]

"I get a hint of this sort of snide naiveté from you with comments like that."

Sorry not what I intended

skidflow do you really think that the masses make good decisions? Really?

Naw bro they dont....you just gotta be down for total freedom....see your bias to the capitalistic system (freedom at the expense of others) because you benifited from it....you dont want that to change no matter how many freedoms or civil liberties it destroys. Again no the masses dont make the best decisions...but the decisions of a handful isnt any better...especially when your'e part of an elite...now...and um, Obama could have won the election without the electorial vote....just wanted throw that out there.

 

[thedreampolice]

"you just gotta be down for total freedom....see your bias to the capitalistic system (freedom at the expense of others) because you benifited from it"

That's not what capitalism is, and how did I hurt anyone from making it out of poverty?

The electorial college is in place to protect our freedoms. Not to take away from them.