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StressWon

www.stress1.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 68
As some of you know, the electoral vote decides the outcome of every presidential election. Now that Obama is in, this is the perfect time to start getting our country back on track. "we the people" can make a difference but we need to put the game controllers, iphones, and such down to do this...


Check my sig for the link. There are many Congressmen and women who believe this is "Unamerican". By working together, we can show unity and it's the first step to letting our voices get heard. Research it yourself, we will have allies within Congress.

PS:
Anyone interested in creating banners to link to the sig, please do so.
 

dahkter

Ill Muzikoligist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 4
I am number 4. Problem is, people in the red states love the electoral college, it makes their votes ten times stronger than those of us living in major cities...
 

thedreampolice

A backwards poet writes inverse.
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
"people in the red states love the electoral college, it makes their votes ten times stronger than those of us living in major cities..." !?!?!? WOW that is just wrong.

please study the history of the Electoral College and see why it is actually needed and a VERY good thing. Its not going away any time soon.
 

StressWon

www.stress1.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 68
"people in the red states love the electoral college, it makes their votes ten times stronger than those of us living in major cities..." !?!?!? WOW that is just wrong.

please study the history of the Electoral College and see why it is actually needed and a VERY good thing. Its not going away any time soon.


explain how it is a "good thing" brotha.
 

Cleverwon

Paradigm P
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 74
im number ONE.

Thats right. Just like in real life.
 

dahkter

Ill Muzikoligist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 4
"people in the red states love the electoral college, it makes their votes ten times stronger than those of us living in major cities..." !?!?!? WOW that is just wrong.

please study the history of the Electoral College and see why it is actually needed and a VERY good thing. Its not going away any time soon.

The only problem with my post is that "ten times stronger" was an exaggeration. I thought that was evident. To clarify, a quote from fairvote.org ( http://www.fairvote.org/?page=985 ) :

"Wyoming has three electoral votes and only 506,529 citizens. As a result each of Wyoming's three votes corresponds to only 168,843 people. These people have 3.23 times as much clout in the Electoral College as an average American."

All I'm saying is that those of us that live in heavily concentrated areas have a less effective vote than those living in the country. I don't see the reason for your shock and awe. We are all citizens, all of our votes should count equally. It's a National election, not a best of 50 states election.
 

thedreampolice

A backwards poet writes inverse.
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
Remember we DO NOT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY in the US will live in a republic.

"Tyranny of the Majority
To be brutally honest, the Founding Fathers did not give the American public of their day much credit for political awareness. Here are a few relevant quotes from the Constitutional Convention of 1787.

"A popular election in this case is radically vicious. The ignorance of the people would put it in the power of some one set of men dispersed through the Union, and acting in concert, to delude them into any appointment." -- Delegate Gerry, July 25, 1787

"The extent of the country renders it impossible, that the people can have the requisite capacity to judge of the respective pretensions of the candidates." -- Delegate Mason, July 17, 1787

"The people are uninformed, and would be misled by a few designing men." -- Delegate Gerry, July 19, 1787.

The Founding Fathers had seen the dangers of placing ultimate power into a single set of human hands. Accordingly, they feared that placing unlimited power to elect the president into the politically naive hands of the people could lead to a "tyranny of the majority." In response, they created the Electoral College system as a process to insulate the selection of the president from the whims of the public.

Preserving Federalism
The Founding Fathers also felt the Electoral College system would enforce the concept of federalism -- the division and sharing of powers between the state and national governments.

Under the Constitution, the people are empowered to choose, through direct popular election, the men and women who represent them in their state legislatures and in the United Sates Congress. The states, through the Electoral College, are empowered to choose the president and vice president. "

"The Electoral College allowed us to isolate the problem and deal with it on a micro level. Without the present system the problem would have been magnified dramatically as nationwide recounts would have been required. It is very difficult to contest 50 different elections. For this same reason, the Electoral College also prevents massive voter fraud. For example, California is considered a “safe state” for Democrats. Were California (the nation’s most heavily populated state) to engage in massive voter fraud, it would be of little benefit to the Democrats because no matter how many Democratic votes are counted, the state still only has 55 electoral votes. The same can be said of Texas, or any other Republican “safe state.” Were a direct popular vote in place these heavily populated states would have a much greater incentive for fraud. Because these states are so clearly dominated by one party, prosecutors are unlikely to look into charges of fraud for fear of retribution. The Electoral College prevents much of the motivation for fraud. The Electoral College also promotes and protects our two-party system, which promotes stability and certainty. “Without a two-party system,” Ross explains, “the electorate would splinter its votes among many candidates. Multi-candidate presidential races would result in constant recounts, uncertainty, and consistent runoffs.” John Fortier warns against systems with a large number of political parties. “At the end of the day coalitions have to be built, a majority must be reached. This often results in behind the scenes deals. Our system is very transparent.” The Electoral College may be imperfect as Alexander Hamilton concedes in Federalist No. 68, but it is nevertheless excellent. The moderation and stability it promotes protects and preserves our freedom. It is one of the crowning achievements of our Founders and should be revered as such.
"

Need any more info on why its a good thing???
 

dahkter

Ill Muzikoligist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 4
Need any more info on why its a good thing???

I didn't find your post informative at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a bunch of quotes from 225 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is your point?????!!!!!!!????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I figure since you are going for the multiple punctuation marks I'll do the same)

The two points I gather you are making is that the electoral vote prevents fraud (laughable and wrong - look at how Bush stole the election in 2000, he lost by half a million votes, however due to the dysfunction of the electoral college he was able to become President) and that the people are easily misled (these quotes taken from a time so completely different from our own, when there was no electricty, no cars, and only white land owning men could vote).

You haven't refuted my main point. I find it wrong that someone in mid-America has a vote with 3times more value than my own. I also have faith that the American people can collectively decide on their leader, that it should not be decided on a state by state basis. It is a poor and erroneous way to calculate who is chosen to lead the country.

All the quotes and arguing in the world will not make one equal to three.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
I find it wrong that someone in mid-America has a vote with 3times more value than my own.
Nuf said...
Plus, what it also does unfortunately is sway potential voters from participating a lot of the time and making their vote heard becuase many people are too confused with the complexity of why and how it works.
Just makes more sense to simply have popular vote. Its not rocket science.
 

StressWon

www.stress1.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 68
Remember we DO NOT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY in the US will live in a republic.

"Tyranny of the Majority
To be brutally honest, the Founding Fathers did not give the American public of their day much credit for political awareness. Here are a few relevant quotes from the Constitutional Convention of 1787.

"A popular election in this case is radically vicious. The ignorance of the people would put it in the power of some one set of men dispersed through the Union, and acting in concert, to delude them into any appointment." -- Delegate Gerry, July 25, 1787

"The extent of the country renders it impossible, that the people can have the requisite capacity to judge of the respective pretensions of the candidates." -- Delegate Mason, July 17, 1787

"The people are uninformed, and would be misled by a few designing men." -- Delegate Gerry, July 19, 1787.

The Founding Fathers had seen the dangers of placing ultimate power into a single set of human hands. Accordingly, they feared that placing unlimited power to elect the president into the politically naive hands of the people could lead to a "tyranny of the majority." In response, they created the Electoral College system as a process to insulate the selection of the president from the whims of the public.

Preserving Federalism
The Founding Fathers also felt the Electoral College system would enforce the concept of federalism -- the division and sharing of powers between the state and national governments.

Under the Constitution, the people are empowered to choose, through direct popular election, the men and women who represent them in their state legislatures and in the United Sates Congress. The states, through the Electoral College, are empowered to choose the president and vice president. "

"The Electoral College allowed us to isolate the problem and deal with it on a micro level. Without the present system the problem would have been magnified dramatically as nationwide recounts would have been required. It is very difficult to contest 50 different elections. For this same reason, the Electoral College also prevents massive voter fraud. For example, California is considered a “safe state” for Democrats. Were California (the nation’s most heavily populated state) to engage in massive voter fraud, it would be of little benefit to the Democrats because no matter how many Democratic votes are counted, the state still only has 55 electoral votes. The same can be said of Texas, or any other Republican “safe state.” Were a direct popular vote in place these heavily populated states would have a much greater incentive for fraud. Because these states are so clearly dominated by one party, prosecutors are unlikely to look into charges of fraud for fear of retribution. The Electoral College prevents much of the motivation for fraud. The Electoral College also promotes and protects our two-party system, which promotes stability and certainty. “Without a two-party system,” Ross explains, “the electorate would splinter its votes among many candidates. Multi-candidate presidential races would result in constant recounts, uncertainty, and consistent runoffs.” John Fortier warns against systems with a large number of political parties. “At the end of the day coalitions have to be built, a majority must be reached. This often results in behind the scenes deals. Our system is very transparent.” The Electoral College may be imperfect as Alexander Hamilton concedes in Federalist No. 68, but it is nevertheless excellent. The moderation and stability it promotes protects and preserves our freedom. It is one of the crowning achievements of our Founders and should be revered as such.
"

Need any more info on why its a good thing???


this means nothing. good points no doubt, but it just shows what I'm sayin. The people truly have no say. This is federalism. Besides, they were a bunch of slave owners,,,there credibility is null.
 

thedreampolice

A backwards poet writes inverse.
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
"I also have faith that the American people can collectively decide on their leader"

WOW umm the general public is easily misled and the opinion changes with the wind. Where do you live BTW? are you really worried about 3 electorial votes. CA gets 50 also after reading your link it is clear that ONLY WY is weighted that way. Do you really think its fair that they get one vote? Also do you think it is fair that if %30 of the people in CA vote for something and %70 vote another way that %100 of the electorial go to the %70? Where is the voice of the %30. Please read some history books, learn a little more about the process.

"they were a bunch of slave owners,,,there credibility is null. "

So the people that started the greatest country of all time have no credibility? That's just sad.

"It's a bunch of quotes from 225 years ago"

BTW its 3 quotes from 225 years ago, the rest of the article is from I think 2006. Please read it before you argue about it.
 
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