mercurywaters
hip hop in the flesh
PETE ROCK REMINISCES
by Andrew Mason
I remember being three years old in my living room in the Bronx. My father was playing records and the music just did something to me. It made me want to dance, it made me want to hear more. From that, I just got very interested in sound-I liked how music sounded.
My father taught me all about music, and about records, how to care for them, clean them, and stuff like that. He told me about artists and labels. My father had a huge record collection from before I was born, coming from Jamaica. He used to spin at a cricket club called Wembley in the Bronx. He would play reggae and a little soul and used to bring me and my younger brother around from time to time.
Did he have two turntables at home?
Yeah. He had an old fashioned mixer, just knobs. I liked the way it looked. And the way it sounded. I used to play with it when he wasn't home, bug out.
My pops had like five crates filled to the top-and I mean to the top-with reggae 45s. And another few that're all soul. When my pops passed he left those to me and my younger brother. I was just thinking today, I need to sit down and go through those. It's a goldmine, not even mentioning all the albums he had. I think I must have the most records of anyone in the industry. I have about 40,000 at home, then my father has to have had 50,000, plus the 45s.
He had more years on me!
He was born in Jamaica?
Yeah. My sisters and older brothers were born in Jamaica. Myself and my younger brother Grap were born in the States, in the Bronx. I have two brothers and two sisters, and two other sisters on my father's side.
Did anybody else in your family get involved with music?
Well, you know Heavy D is my cousin. Other than Hev and Grap Luva, not really, though my older brother listened to a lot of fusion jazz, and being interested in what he was listening to taught me about the Brainstorms and the Herbie Hancocks, Miles Davis's Water Babies, On the Corner, and '8os fusion jazz like Chuck Mangione, Hiroshima, Bill Bruford.
What are your earliest memories of hip-hop?
Fatback Band records. Listening to Afrika Bambaataa and Mr. Magic on WHBI, Africa Islam was DJing. Jazzy Jay used to be on 98.7 KISS. Chuck Chillout, [Grand Wizard] Theodore, Charlie Chase ... Bambaataa especially. I was very tuned into those guys but I used to follow Flash and DST. I liked basically everyone from the old school, but everybody has favorites and Flash and DST, those were my favorite DJs.
When did you move to Mount Vernon?
1977. It was definitely quiet coming from the Bronx. It was a nice block that we lived on, everybody was cool. I would go back to my old block all the time though, take my mother's money and go to the record store and buy records! "Get Up and Dance" by Freedom, that's the first record I ever tried scratching on. I was about seven or eight years old. It was fun to scratch. I used to hear it a lot but didn't know how to do it. My cousin Floyd, Hev's brother, was a DJ, he had a crew called the Classic Rock Crew. One time when they weren't home I snuck in and turned on the equipment. He came in and busted me, got mad at me, but I was so anxious to learn how to scratch that he showed me how and Freedom was the record I learned on. I remember I cut the beginning, the middle, and the end. There were breaks at each spot.
Who influenced you as far as how you approached cutting doubles?
Definitely my cousin, by watching him I learned why you needed two copies. You had to keep the beat going, you had to be quick on your hands. They had doubles of everything, from '8os disco that cats used to rhyme to, cutting up Evelyn "Champagne" King, to "breakdance" records like Nairobi and Rocker's Revenge. There was a label called Streetwise that used to put out all that stuff. Partytime was another, with T La Rock. Even Next Plateau. Then you had Nia Records. I was buying all that '8os good stuff when it came out, doubles if I could afford it. At that time I was just a paperboy in my neighborhood, trying to make some money to buy records!
Did you play parties back then?
I
was doing parties starting from high school. That's how I got my name out there. If you're doing parties it's important that you know how to keep the crowd dancing. You've got to have your R&B, your hip-hop, your old school hip-hop, and your reggae. To be a real DJ you need to know how to blend, scratch, and know what records to put on at what time. Tony Humphries used to do those megamixes on the radio of all the hit records. He inspired me to learn how to blend better. But as far as cutting doubles or things like that, it just came from years of listening to DJs on the radio like Marley, Chuck Chillout, Red Alert, Jazzy Jay, and Bambaataa.
You did radio for a long time yourself. The first time that I ever heard of you in fact was on the In Control radio show. [Marley Marl's groundbreaking mix show In Control ran on WBLS 107.5 FM in New York City in the late '8os through 1991.]
1988! That's when my radio career started, thanks to people like Marley Marl and Heavy D. Hev introduced me to Marley, who'd been doing production for Hev. At the time Marley's DJ Kevvy Kev had gotten into a car accident and he needed a fill in. Hev thought of me and put me in there and I'm very grateful for that.
On those shows it was you doing all the mixing, right?
Yeah. Every weekend. Then he started rotating in Clark Kent and other DJs like Funkmaster Flex. I was a young, young guy. I was like fifteen on the radio cutting up old
school breaks! Nobody was really doing that. I'd heard Red Alert doing it a few times, but nobody was really taking it to the extent I did.
In Control, along with Red's shows, really set the standard for what a hip-hop mix show should sound like.
After the '8os, and older DJs like Tony Humphries had their era, DJs like us [Marley and Pete Rock], Mantronix, and people like that came out with our own records. They were almost like test records for us to experiment with. There were no rules as to how you mixed them! At first we were playing a lot of R&B too. The '8os was my "kid" era, I was a young guy and loved all that. We would take an R&B a cappella and put a beat under it, or put a rap a cappella on an R&B beat. We were the ones who kind of started that style.
Did you all have meetings or plan out what you were going to do on air?
We didn't plan shit! That was the dopest thing. The only time anything was planned was if we were told to tone down the show a little bit, or play more of this, or play certain things. But it got to the point where they loved us so much that they just let us go, and said do what you do. When Frankie Crocker came back to the radio, that's when that era kind of ended. I think that the position they were offering him at WBLS gave him authority to do what he wanted with the station and that didn't work in our best interest. But I certainly enjoyed the years on 'BLS. We had a following then, and people started looking for the next thing we'd do.
How did you get involved in the production side of things?
Since Heavy D is family, when he got his record deal [in 1986] we were all proud. It really helps having family in the business, especially with something fun like making music. I was going to studio sessions with Hev, and meeting Marley Marl, Howie T, and all those producers got me interested in wanting to make beats. I started doing coproduction for Hev in '87 or '88, and I think people started recognizing my talent from that. I was happy just to have them use my ideas, which meant I'd get a co-production credit. Like I'd have a beat in my head, or a beat I made with a pause button. I had a lot of those that I would take to Eddie [Ferrell, a fellow Mt. Vernon-ite who Heavy D made his first demo with] or to other producers and they would try to make the beat on the sp12 or s9oo or whatever, do the same thing I was doing on the pause tapes, but looping it on the machine. Records like "You Ain't Heard Nothin' Yet," "Mood For Love," "Big Tyme," those were my ideas from pause button tapes.
Were you looping back then?
No. I would sample, but I would take a little piece and use it for hits. Then I started exploring more sounds and records and finding dope loops and sampling them.
What was the first equipment that you got really comfortable working on?
The [E-mu] sP-I2oo. I've done everything you've ever heard from me on the sP except for this new album where I'm using the [Akai] MPC2000XL, and the so. In the beginning I was working with the [E-mu] sP-12 and the [RolandTR-] 909. I liked the feel of the sp-12, and once the sp-1200 came out I basically just fell into it. It only had ten seconds sampling time but I found my way around that. I just thought of ways to save time and sample what I needed to sample. It's like, how can I make some extravagant beats in ten seconds? It's all about what you find when you're digging and how your ear works. I know once the sound is dope everything else will fall into place.
What is it about a sound that you're looking for?
It makes you feel good when you hear it. Like if somebody's fuckin' a guitar up. Or keyboards, Rhodes, drums, ill bass lines. Things like that just drive me and inspire me, they make me feel good and make me want to put them together and let other people hear it: "Look what I found!"
Do you usually do drums first?
Whatever comes to mind. Usually I do the loop, then I'll do the hi-hat. I use the hi-hat as my guide to tighten the loop up when I'm just starting with it.
When you have the beginning of a beat, do you think, for example, "I need a high-pitched noise here..."
Yeah, sounds. What would fit with the beat. I look for a sound that's close to or similar to what I hear in my head.
Do you use the quantize function all the time?
I turn it off when I'm doing bass lines. And sometimes with the drums. You can hear it sometimes fall off and come back. It's all in how you rock the beat. I used to hear RZA do that a lot, make jumpy beats that're just ... off. It's the way they rhymed to it that made you love the beats. Old Dirty Bastard's first album, I love that record. It's funny and entertaining to me, and I think he's a dope lyricist. But the beats on that album? Some of them are just like,
whatever! Like they were in the studio like, just loop that shit up, man! Crazy. But the way he rhymed on it just brings the beats across.
You said you were using the new MPC these days. Are you using the time stretching function on there?
Yeah, definitely. I used that before on a joint I made that goes fast and slows down, I liked the tone of the sample so I stretched it to stay the same.
It's interesting because your style has really evolved while the equipment has basically stayed the same.
Yeah, nothing's changed. With the se and the MPc there's always something new you can learn about. I try to read the manual as much as possible.
Tell me about how you discovered filtering, because I think you were the first to really get into that.
Yeah! We were playing around one day at Eddie F's house, making beats, and I touched this button on the Akai 950 or 900. I was just pressing buttons, seeing what they did. The loop was playing and I was just messing with the knob. The next thing you know it starts changing... I turned it back, turned it back again, and thought to myself this is an instant bass line! Even when somebody's singing! If the bass line's dope, just EQ it and muffle everything else. I just ran with it. Nobody was doing it at the time, not even Marley Marl. That was in '89 or '90.
There's some other touches you've been known for at different times, like horns, the Mountain drums, or sleigh bells...
[laughs] thing-thing-thing-thing! Sometimes I just hear that in my head when I'm making beats. If I feel like that'll sound good in the beat I'll put it in. Same with tambourines. I did it, but I wouldn't say that's a signature sound of mine. The horns though, that was something new that nobody had ever used a lot. I was inspired to use horns by hearing "Truly Yours" by Kool G Rap [sings the "NT"-sampled sax line]. Drum rolls too, nobody was really messing with that back then. If you listen to "What's Next on the Menu" and [AZ's] "Rather Unique," I did a lot of drum programming on those. The Mountain drums, that was something I used a lot in the beginning. I just liked hearing how different beats I'd made sounded with those same drums under them. I cut that out because people were complaining, "Why's he keep using the same drums?" So I was like, I'll show you. I have plenty of drums to work with, don't worry.
On the record you and CL did for Motown, "In the House," the drums are slamming. Did you use the Power of Zeus drums there?
The kick and the snare. I actually looped the Zeus beat once. Me and Large Professor rhymed on it but it never came out. It's ill, me and Large going back and forth.
You must have a huge stash of beats that never came out.
I've got songs I did with Redman, Biz Mark, Erick Sermon, Parrish, Big Daddy Kane... They all came over to the basement, spit on beats. Those're the real basement tapes! I've done some other things people might be surprised to hear about, like a Mick Jagger remix, a TLC remix, a Madonna remix that never came out. I did the Mick Jagger for London records. They wanted something uptempo and I used "Apache"-it was bugged out. They didn't go for it. Madonna I did for Warner Brothers. The joint that Dallas Austin did, I did a remix for. Another one was Mary J. Blige, "Family Affair." Dre's beat is cool but I did it my way. All the pieces I used are from the Temptations's "Papa Was a Rolling Stone." The bass, the guitar, the horns, the harp, the violins, everything is from the Temptations.
Do you layer drum hits?
Sometimes I do. Sometimes I'll use two snares, or a tambourine on top of a snare, just to make it hit harder.
Do you use actual drum loops or just hits?
I
use drum loops and I use hits too. I'll use the beginning of the drum roll of a record. I'll take a snare, if it's fat, and a kick from the very beginning of a record. If you listen to Ohio Players, or Detroit Emeralds, there's lots of records that start with a little drum fill that has kicks and snares in there. It's nothing to find a hi-hat, and there you have your nice little drum sample. I take bits of sounds. I got my best kicks and snares that way, just getting them out of drum breaks or from some records that start off BAP! Rock records especially, Led Zeppelin and all that. The drums are just hard.
I like to find different kicks, snares, and hi-hats. The archive of sounds I have is from all different kinds of records, just kicks and snares. You can go into Sam Ash and they have drums on cu, but I like the way I do it, putting things together. I take a kick from this record, a snare from over here, get some hi-hats from another ... sometimes it'll all be on one record.
The sP has a heavier sound for drums than the MPC, I found. And the sp, for me, when I'm EQ-ing, it's more hip-hop. It's stronger. Working with the MP, it's a little bit thinner. But the MP is dope, because it does more, to make up for the loss.
Will you run kicks and snares through a compressor?
It depends. If I want to give it a dirty sound I'll just leave it the way I sampled it at home. Sometimes the kicks and snares will have static in them, and sometimes that sounds good with the sample. Sometimes I'll clean it up. A lot of people don't know that the 12 has a compressor inside of it. A decay. You can decay out noise. I can take the static right out of a kick or snare.
Do you compress the finished drum track?
No. I'll hook the beat up, bring it to the studio and EQ it, maybe run the snare or kick individually through compression if I think it needs it. I don't do it all the time, I do it when I need to.
Do you play any instruments?
Yeah, bass. I play a little keyboard, too. If I hit something good then I'll sample it. Play some more, sample it, then put it together. It sounds live!
Did you ever work with a live band?
With the Roots, but not on a record. Ahmir is like the ultimate soul drummer. He's ill 'cause he listens to all kinds of drumming, from rock to soul to jazz. He's a beat-head. We were mad excited to meet each other, he sat me down and grilled me like you're grilling me now. He grilled me even worse! "How do you do your programming? How do you get it to sound this way?" He's got it, nobody can tell him nothing now. He can drum and it'll sound like an sP or MPC.
Are you still out there digging?
Oh yeah. If not everyday then every other day. Every week. Every chance I get to buy records I do.
I know I used to see you at the conventions.
I never liked those record shows to tell you the truth. Everyone's looking over my shoulder. Even certain rap artists, I won't mention them by name but they're well known, doing the same thing I'm doing, wondering what I'm buying. Worry about you, don't worry about me. I'm doing this for me, or for my fans. There's too many people in the music industry who cannot sit and brainstorm for a minute and come up with an original idea.
How do you feel about the Dusty Fingers and Pete's Treats compilations?
I just think it's wack. Look, it's no secret that I sample. Of course I sample. People know I do, so they know there are records out there that they can find [that I used]. But don't make it easier for people! This is valuable to us! We work hard at trying to find shit so you can enjoy yourself! Let motherfuckers do the work and find that shit on their own! 'Cause I love to do that. My thing is, stop revealing the secrets. Learning about beats is something you have to earn, like a stripe in the Air Force!
I used to think I had to go to these stores where they specialise in rare records, but after years of digging I've realized that beats are everywhere. You can't sleep, it could be right under your nose. Like the Tony Alvon ["Sexy Coffee Pot"]. I didn't think I was going to find that record at all. I went to [notorious NYC area spot with tons of 45s] and he fucking had it in there, and I could not believe that I was feasting my eyes on it! I mean the actual Atco 45! That was sick. My father used to go to that place back in the early '8os. My pops was going to places that I'm just getting up on now! The last time I was there I got there at nine in the morning and left at eight at night. That's a long time but when you're digging you're not even thinking of time. You lose all track of thought! You just keep them ears open and try to find shit!
What catches your eye about a record?
I used to just look at how funky somebody looks on the cover. The whole spectrum of how soulful it looks. But I stopped sleeping 'cause that's all I used to do, just base it on how the cover looks. I bring a portable with me everywhere I go so now I just listen to everything. I try not to sleep on anything. I read the back of albums, credits, of course [record] labels, song titles, instruments. I read up on this music as much as I can. A lot of different musicians played on other people's records, like the Meters played on Lee Dorsey's shit.
What are some of your favorite drum breaks?
There are a lot. "Funky President," James Brown. "Apache." Melvin Bliss. "Impeach the President." There's a lot of rock shit. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath. Kiss. Yeah man, Kiss got drums! I got this one album of theirs, [the part's] real short, it just goes BOOM-BAP! And then the record comes in. But the drums are fuckin' sick. Power of Zeus, Rare Earth. I mean damn, there's a lot of drums out there. Sound Foundation. I've had that record for years and never touched it. And still nobody's sampled it! The Little Richard drums, I used those on the first LP, Mecca and the Soul Brother, on the intro to "Pete's Sake." But [Melvin Bliss's] "Synthetic Substitution," those are the illest drums I've ever heard. The illest pattern of drumming I've ever heard in my entire life. When I heard Ultramagnetic's "Ego Trippin'," I fell in love with it. Ced Gee made that. Him and Paul C., they was gettin' shit. I still don't know how they did the drums on "Give the Drummer Some." Nuff respect due to Paul C. That was the cat right there. He was finding some real ill beats. Large Professor used to tell me how ill his record collection was.
What have you done with Large Pro? How did you guys hook up?
I did a remix of "Think" for Wild Pitch, they liked it but they didn't do anything with it. I did "Vamos a Rapier" for Main Source also. Large and I just linked as friends. We were both lovers of music, and we used to go over each others' cribs, and hang out. We both liked to dig and we would go record shopping together.
You were involved with ATCQs Low End Theory...
I did "We Got the Jazz."
What did you do on that?
The whole beat!
You didn't get credit for it.
No. He shouted me out at the end and that was a big discrepancy for me. What happened was, Tip used to come over all the time. One time the "Jazz" beat was already playing in the drum machine. I went to answer the door and left the beat playing. He came downstairs like, "What the fuck is that?" I even had the records I sampled still sitting there on the turntables because I'd just made the beat. [Lucky Thompson's] Cook County Jail. He was like, "You making this for CL?" and I said I was just fucking with it. But he knew what I used and took the same elements, and made it the exact same way. And then at the end of the record he says, "Pete Rock for the beat ya don't stop." I made that shit. That's my shit. I'm taking all my credit back from n*ggas that stole from me.
You had the "Don't Change Your Love" drums in there too?
The way you hear it on the Tribe album is the way I had it. I had a few other little guitar sounds or something going on in there, I wasn't going to use them anyway, but I was going to use the beat. He came down there and heard it and never said, "Hey Pete, come in the studio and lay this down for us." He didn't tell me he was going to use it. Puffy did the same thing to me with "Juicy." I did the original version, didn't get credit for it. They came to my house, heard the beat going on the drum machine, it's the same story. You come downstairs at my crib, you hear music. He heard that shit and the next thing you know it comes out. They had me do a remix, but I tell people, and I will fight it to the end, that I did the original version of that. I'm not mad at anybody, I just want the correct credit. Fuck that. Y'all can't
just be robbing mu'fuckas. If you didn't do the work, I'ma expose you. When you have an idea and someone just takes it, that's kind of wack. You must not do much clever thinking. I mean, there ain't much to it, just make the fuckin' track. A lot of people have gotten ideas from me, a lot of people have learned from me. And that's all well and good, I love the fact that I can teach somebody. But there's a lot of manipulators out there, they don't do the hard work, and think they can just take somebody's idea.
What do you think about people who actually sample your records? Drum sounds or something like that?
I think that's bullshit. One of Mr. Cheeks's artists jacked "Reminisce" and did it over. I didn't really like that at all, period. I thought it was trash. It wasn't done right. But I'm going to do it myself [remake "Reminisce"], and I guarantee it'll sound incredible. I have the original tracks, so no matter what you take from my record, it's not going to sound as good as what I can put out from the original tracks. And I'll put superstar rappers on it. So, thanks, you just gave me a great idea.
Do you think about that when you leave drums open on a record?
Oh yeah. I know people do that. I heard my snare on one of Fat Joe's records, they sampled a snare from "The Game." The record with Ghost that came out on Loud. That's a deadly snare. I'm not mad, I'm just like, "Oh shit! That's my snare!"
What about talking on the mic in between while the guy's rhyming...
The ad-libs, the thing that Puffy's doing now. I was just doing it, I wasn't thinking about it. One day I was just behind the mic, I was getting ready to rhyme on one of my records, and the beat had me bugging. I was just talking: "Hey!" "Ooh!" "Make it hot," you know, and just left it in the recording.
It seems like Puff picked up on that.
Oh yeah, big time. Ran with that shit. Whatever, I ain't mad at him.
You've never been shy to get on the mic. What've been the reactions to that?
People have their different opinions. But I know I can rhyme so I ain't worried. They can say whatever they want, write their various opinions. I think I can rhyme. I know I can, because when I'm making beats I'm rhyming to myself in my head. Feeling out ideas of Mcs for certain beats, like, "This sounds like Rakim," or "This sounds like Ghost," or "This sounds like CL." I'll try and get that beat to that artist, if I can. When the Rakim record came about we saw each other at Des D and I had a beat tape in my back pocket. I played him the beat that was eventually used for "The Saga Continues." Premier was there too and almost lost a gasket when he heard it. He was like, "Ra, if you don't fuck with that-" [laughs] "-you're crazy." That was a great experience. I would like to do more with Rakim, I think I can experiment with him and make something totally different and crazy but people will like it. I don't know what he's up to now, I heard he wasn't with Dr. Dre anymore and my ears just perked up, you know.
Are there other Mcs out there you'd like to work with?
There's a slew of them. Clipse, LL. I like Nappy Roots, I like Outkast, Ludacris, Jay-Z, Nas, DMX, I like the Lox, that's the hood right there. There's a lot of dope people I want to get with... Sizzla! I worked with Beanie Man, Shabba I'd love to work with. I worked with Super Cat before. I did a reggae joint for him and Hev.
So let's talk about the new album. You and CL are reunited for at least one track on there, right?
Yeah. We hadn't been in touch for a while, and recently just sat down and came to the conclusion that if we got back together we couldn't be stopped. Me and CL have been through so much together... We went to high school together, you know. He rhymed back then, and his voice was so distinctive. He sounded like no one out there. You couldn't say he sounded like another rapper, and that's what attracted me. I thought, let's see what we can do. We made like seventy demos and got signed. We've been on tour, we know every rhymer and producer in this business. We've influenced people, even people we've never met have said that we changed the face of hip-hop. So we're going to try to do some more. Other artists on the new record are Dead Prez, Kweli, Kardinal Offishall, Angie Stone, Mad Skillz, Slum Village, Pharoahe Monch, GZA, Little Brother. I was supposed to hook up with RZA but I don't know if that's going to happen. I haven't chosen a single for the new record yet, it's between Kardinal and CL.
Tell me about what went down with the I-n-I album back in 1996.
We finished the album, turned it in to Elektra and they never put it out, they only put out a single. Sylvia [Rhone] really didn't cooperate, she didn't break bread with me when it came down to resolving that. It was all about her changing everything around. She wanted to change my whole sound. When she said, "You gotta make a beat like Puffy," I just knew it wasn't going to work out. I mean, she didn't understand that he wants to do what I do. He looked up to me, I inspired him, nahmsayin? "Fakin' Jax" was the only I-n-I single put out, it had "Props" on the s-side. But now BBE is putting the album out. They [took] the material straight off the masters so it sounds a lot better than all the bootlegs that're out there.
Speaking of bootlegs, I'm sure you've seen some of the Best of Pete Rock-type comps that are floating around. If you were making a Pete Rock Greatest Beats, what wouldyou put on there?
"What's Next on the Menu," "Death Becomes You," "One in a Million"; all the movie soundtrack shit. The PE remixes: "Shut 'Em Down" and "Night Train." I did those on the same day. Started at twelve, didn't finish until twelve. [House of Pain's] "Jump Around" [remix]. [Das EFX's] "Jussumen" and "Real Hip-Hop." "They Reminisce" and "Straighten It Out" of course. That's my signature sound.
How about "Da Two," that beat is ridiculous. "Blind Alley," right?
You see the making of Soul Survivor nvo? I was making that beat on there. The drums are from "Blind Alley" too. It's just one little piece.
What I love about it is that it's almost like an inside thing for beat-heads. Somebody who didn't know better might say, "It's only one note on the organ you're using, just replay it, why sample?"
It's not just any organ! That's not how it goes. That's not what's up. Yeah man. And the piano is Stanley Cowell, Illusion Suite. I used a lot of shit from that LP.
Another thing that flipped me out was the remix of Jeru's "Can't Stop the Prophet." I knew the loop right away because it's a pretty famous song [the Modern Jazz Quartet's "Django"] but I couldn't figure out how you took the sample.
That's 'cause I have a version of it that's in stereo and I panned it. I'm using both sides of the pan if you listen to it, one side and then the other side. If you listen to the instrumental you'll hear it.
What do you think gives you the knack for putting these innovative beats together?
Just having music in my head all the time. Always having some type of rhythm going in my head. See I'm into the art and craft of it all. There's amazing music out there that people wouldn't believe. I just like to dig for it and share it with the world. 0
by Andrew Mason
I remember being three years old in my living room in the Bronx. My father was playing records and the music just did something to me. It made me want to dance, it made me want to hear more. From that, I just got very interested in sound-I liked how music sounded.
My father taught me all about music, and about records, how to care for them, clean them, and stuff like that. He told me about artists and labels. My father had a huge record collection from before I was born, coming from Jamaica. He used to spin at a cricket club called Wembley in the Bronx. He would play reggae and a little soul and used to bring me and my younger brother around from time to time.
Did he have two turntables at home?
Yeah. He had an old fashioned mixer, just knobs. I liked the way it looked. And the way it sounded. I used to play with it when he wasn't home, bug out.
My pops had like five crates filled to the top-and I mean to the top-with reggae 45s. And another few that're all soul. When my pops passed he left those to me and my younger brother. I was just thinking today, I need to sit down and go through those. It's a goldmine, not even mentioning all the albums he had. I think I must have the most records of anyone in the industry. I have about 40,000 at home, then my father has to have had 50,000, plus the 45s.
He had more years on me!
He was born in Jamaica?
Yeah. My sisters and older brothers were born in Jamaica. Myself and my younger brother Grap were born in the States, in the Bronx. I have two brothers and two sisters, and two other sisters on my father's side.
Did anybody else in your family get involved with music?
Well, you know Heavy D is my cousin. Other than Hev and Grap Luva, not really, though my older brother listened to a lot of fusion jazz, and being interested in what he was listening to taught me about the Brainstorms and the Herbie Hancocks, Miles Davis's Water Babies, On the Corner, and '8os fusion jazz like Chuck Mangione, Hiroshima, Bill Bruford.
What are your earliest memories of hip-hop?
Fatback Band records. Listening to Afrika Bambaataa and Mr. Magic on WHBI, Africa Islam was DJing. Jazzy Jay used to be on 98.7 KISS. Chuck Chillout, [Grand Wizard] Theodore, Charlie Chase ... Bambaataa especially. I was very tuned into those guys but I used to follow Flash and DST. I liked basically everyone from the old school, but everybody has favorites and Flash and DST, those were my favorite DJs.
When did you move to Mount Vernon?
1977. It was definitely quiet coming from the Bronx. It was a nice block that we lived on, everybody was cool. I would go back to my old block all the time though, take my mother's money and go to the record store and buy records! "Get Up and Dance" by Freedom, that's the first record I ever tried scratching on. I was about seven or eight years old. It was fun to scratch. I used to hear it a lot but didn't know how to do it. My cousin Floyd, Hev's brother, was a DJ, he had a crew called the Classic Rock Crew. One time when they weren't home I snuck in and turned on the equipment. He came in and busted me, got mad at me, but I was so anxious to learn how to scratch that he showed me how and Freedom was the record I learned on. I remember I cut the beginning, the middle, and the end. There were breaks at each spot.
Who influenced you as far as how you approached cutting doubles?
Definitely my cousin, by watching him I learned why you needed two copies. You had to keep the beat going, you had to be quick on your hands. They had doubles of everything, from '8os disco that cats used to rhyme to, cutting up Evelyn "Champagne" King, to "breakdance" records like Nairobi and Rocker's Revenge. There was a label called Streetwise that used to put out all that stuff. Partytime was another, with T La Rock. Even Next Plateau. Then you had Nia Records. I was buying all that '8os good stuff when it came out, doubles if I could afford it. At that time I was just a paperboy in my neighborhood, trying to make some money to buy records!
Did you play parties back then?
I
was doing parties starting from high school. That's how I got my name out there. If you're doing parties it's important that you know how to keep the crowd dancing. You've got to have your R&B, your hip-hop, your old school hip-hop, and your reggae. To be a real DJ you need to know how to blend, scratch, and know what records to put on at what time. Tony Humphries used to do those megamixes on the radio of all the hit records. He inspired me to learn how to blend better. But as far as cutting doubles or things like that, it just came from years of listening to DJs on the radio like Marley, Chuck Chillout, Red Alert, Jazzy Jay, and Bambaataa.
You did radio for a long time yourself. The first time that I ever heard of you in fact was on the In Control radio show. [Marley Marl's groundbreaking mix show In Control ran on WBLS 107.5 FM in New York City in the late '8os through 1991.]
1988! That's when my radio career started, thanks to people like Marley Marl and Heavy D. Hev introduced me to Marley, who'd been doing production for Hev. At the time Marley's DJ Kevvy Kev had gotten into a car accident and he needed a fill in. Hev thought of me and put me in there and I'm very grateful for that.
On those shows it was you doing all the mixing, right?
Yeah. Every weekend. Then he started rotating in Clark Kent and other DJs like Funkmaster Flex. I was a young, young guy. I was like fifteen on the radio cutting up old
school breaks! Nobody was really doing that. I'd heard Red Alert doing it a few times, but nobody was really taking it to the extent I did.
In Control, along with Red's shows, really set the standard for what a hip-hop mix show should sound like.
After the '8os, and older DJs like Tony Humphries had their era, DJs like us [Marley and Pete Rock], Mantronix, and people like that came out with our own records. They were almost like test records for us to experiment with. There were no rules as to how you mixed them! At first we were playing a lot of R&B too. The '8os was my "kid" era, I was a young guy and loved all that. We would take an R&B a cappella and put a beat under it, or put a rap a cappella on an R&B beat. We were the ones who kind of started that style.
Did you all have meetings or plan out what you were going to do on air?
We didn't plan shit! That was the dopest thing. The only time anything was planned was if we were told to tone down the show a little bit, or play more of this, or play certain things. But it got to the point where they loved us so much that they just let us go, and said do what you do. When Frankie Crocker came back to the radio, that's when that era kind of ended. I think that the position they were offering him at WBLS gave him authority to do what he wanted with the station and that didn't work in our best interest. But I certainly enjoyed the years on 'BLS. We had a following then, and people started looking for the next thing we'd do.
How did you get involved in the production side of things?
Since Heavy D is family, when he got his record deal [in 1986] we were all proud. It really helps having family in the business, especially with something fun like making music. I was going to studio sessions with Hev, and meeting Marley Marl, Howie T, and all those producers got me interested in wanting to make beats. I started doing coproduction for Hev in '87 or '88, and I think people started recognizing my talent from that. I was happy just to have them use my ideas, which meant I'd get a co-production credit. Like I'd have a beat in my head, or a beat I made with a pause button. I had a lot of those that I would take to Eddie [Ferrell, a fellow Mt. Vernon-ite who Heavy D made his first demo with] or to other producers and they would try to make the beat on the sp12 or s9oo or whatever, do the same thing I was doing on the pause tapes, but looping it on the machine. Records like "You Ain't Heard Nothin' Yet," "Mood For Love," "Big Tyme," those were my ideas from pause button tapes.
Were you looping back then?
No. I would sample, but I would take a little piece and use it for hits. Then I started exploring more sounds and records and finding dope loops and sampling them.
What was the first equipment that you got really comfortable working on?
The [E-mu] sP-I2oo. I've done everything you've ever heard from me on the sP except for this new album where I'm using the [Akai] MPC2000XL, and the so. In the beginning I was working with the [E-mu] sP-12 and the [RolandTR-] 909. I liked the feel of the sp-12, and once the sp-1200 came out I basically just fell into it. It only had ten seconds sampling time but I found my way around that. I just thought of ways to save time and sample what I needed to sample. It's like, how can I make some extravagant beats in ten seconds? It's all about what you find when you're digging and how your ear works. I know once the sound is dope everything else will fall into place.
What is it about a sound that you're looking for?
It makes you feel good when you hear it. Like if somebody's fuckin' a guitar up. Or keyboards, Rhodes, drums, ill bass lines. Things like that just drive me and inspire me, they make me feel good and make me want to put them together and let other people hear it: "Look what I found!"
Do you usually do drums first?
Whatever comes to mind. Usually I do the loop, then I'll do the hi-hat. I use the hi-hat as my guide to tighten the loop up when I'm just starting with it.
When you have the beginning of a beat, do you think, for example, "I need a high-pitched noise here..."
Yeah, sounds. What would fit with the beat. I look for a sound that's close to or similar to what I hear in my head.
Do you use the quantize function all the time?
I turn it off when I'm doing bass lines. And sometimes with the drums. You can hear it sometimes fall off and come back. It's all in how you rock the beat. I used to hear RZA do that a lot, make jumpy beats that're just ... off. It's the way they rhymed to it that made you love the beats. Old Dirty Bastard's first album, I love that record. It's funny and entertaining to me, and I think he's a dope lyricist. But the beats on that album? Some of them are just like,
whatever! Like they were in the studio like, just loop that shit up, man! Crazy. But the way he rhymed on it just brings the beats across.
You said you were using the new MPC these days. Are you using the time stretching function on there?
Yeah, definitely. I used that before on a joint I made that goes fast and slows down, I liked the tone of the sample so I stretched it to stay the same.
It's interesting because your style has really evolved while the equipment has basically stayed the same.
Yeah, nothing's changed. With the se and the MPc there's always something new you can learn about. I try to read the manual as much as possible.
Tell me about how you discovered filtering, because I think you were the first to really get into that.
Yeah! We were playing around one day at Eddie F's house, making beats, and I touched this button on the Akai 950 or 900. I was just pressing buttons, seeing what they did. The loop was playing and I was just messing with the knob. The next thing you know it starts changing... I turned it back, turned it back again, and thought to myself this is an instant bass line! Even when somebody's singing! If the bass line's dope, just EQ it and muffle everything else. I just ran with it. Nobody was doing it at the time, not even Marley Marl. That was in '89 or '90.
There's some other touches you've been known for at different times, like horns, the Mountain drums, or sleigh bells...
[laughs] thing-thing-thing-thing! Sometimes I just hear that in my head when I'm making beats. If I feel like that'll sound good in the beat I'll put it in. Same with tambourines. I did it, but I wouldn't say that's a signature sound of mine. The horns though, that was something new that nobody had ever used a lot. I was inspired to use horns by hearing "Truly Yours" by Kool G Rap [sings the "NT"-sampled sax line]. Drum rolls too, nobody was really messing with that back then. If you listen to "What's Next on the Menu" and [AZ's] "Rather Unique," I did a lot of drum programming on those. The Mountain drums, that was something I used a lot in the beginning. I just liked hearing how different beats I'd made sounded with those same drums under them. I cut that out because people were complaining, "Why's he keep using the same drums?" So I was like, I'll show you. I have plenty of drums to work with, don't worry.
On the record you and CL did for Motown, "In the House," the drums are slamming. Did you use the Power of Zeus drums there?
The kick and the snare. I actually looped the Zeus beat once. Me and Large Professor rhymed on it but it never came out. It's ill, me and Large going back and forth.
You must have a huge stash of beats that never came out.
I've got songs I did with Redman, Biz Mark, Erick Sermon, Parrish, Big Daddy Kane... They all came over to the basement, spit on beats. Those're the real basement tapes! I've done some other things people might be surprised to hear about, like a Mick Jagger remix, a TLC remix, a Madonna remix that never came out. I did the Mick Jagger for London records. They wanted something uptempo and I used "Apache"-it was bugged out. They didn't go for it. Madonna I did for Warner Brothers. The joint that Dallas Austin did, I did a remix for. Another one was Mary J. Blige, "Family Affair." Dre's beat is cool but I did it my way. All the pieces I used are from the Temptations's "Papa Was a Rolling Stone." The bass, the guitar, the horns, the harp, the violins, everything is from the Temptations.
Do you layer drum hits?
Sometimes I do. Sometimes I'll use two snares, or a tambourine on top of a snare, just to make it hit harder.
Do you use actual drum loops or just hits?
I
use drum loops and I use hits too. I'll use the beginning of the drum roll of a record. I'll take a snare, if it's fat, and a kick from the very beginning of a record. If you listen to Ohio Players, or Detroit Emeralds, there's lots of records that start with a little drum fill that has kicks and snares in there. It's nothing to find a hi-hat, and there you have your nice little drum sample. I take bits of sounds. I got my best kicks and snares that way, just getting them out of drum breaks or from some records that start off BAP! Rock records especially, Led Zeppelin and all that. The drums are just hard.
I like to find different kicks, snares, and hi-hats. The archive of sounds I have is from all different kinds of records, just kicks and snares. You can go into Sam Ash and they have drums on cu, but I like the way I do it, putting things together. I take a kick from this record, a snare from over here, get some hi-hats from another ... sometimes it'll all be on one record.
The sP has a heavier sound for drums than the MPC, I found. And the sp, for me, when I'm EQ-ing, it's more hip-hop. It's stronger. Working with the MP, it's a little bit thinner. But the MP is dope, because it does more, to make up for the loss.
Will you run kicks and snares through a compressor?
It depends. If I want to give it a dirty sound I'll just leave it the way I sampled it at home. Sometimes the kicks and snares will have static in them, and sometimes that sounds good with the sample. Sometimes I'll clean it up. A lot of people don't know that the 12 has a compressor inside of it. A decay. You can decay out noise. I can take the static right out of a kick or snare.
Do you compress the finished drum track?
No. I'll hook the beat up, bring it to the studio and EQ it, maybe run the snare or kick individually through compression if I think it needs it. I don't do it all the time, I do it when I need to.
Do you play any instruments?
Yeah, bass. I play a little keyboard, too. If I hit something good then I'll sample it. Play some more, sample it, then put it together. It sounds live!
Did you ever work with a live band?
With the Roots, but not on a record. Ahmir is like the ultimate soul drummer. He's ill 'cause he listens to all kinds of drumming, from rock to soul to jazz. He's a beat-head. We were mad excited to meet each other, he sat me down and grilled me like you're grilling me now. He grilled me even worse! "How do you do your programming? How do you get it to sound this way?" He's got it, nobody can tell him nothing now. He can drum and it'll sound like an sP or MPC.
Are you still out there digging?
Oh yeah. If not everyday then every other day. Every week. Every chance I get to buy records I do.
I know I used to see you at the conventions.
I never liked those record shows to tell you the truth. Everyone's looking over my shoulder. Even certain rap artists, I won't mention them by name but they're well known, doing the same thing I'm doing, wondering what I'm buying. Worry about you, don't worry about me. I'm doing this for me, or for my fans. There's too many people in the music industry who cannot sit and brainstorm for a minute and come up with an original idea.
How do you feel about the Dusty Fingers and Pete's Treats compilations?
I just think it's wack. Look, it's no secret that I sample. Of course I sample. People know I do, so they know there are records out there that they can find [that I used]. But don't make it easier for people! This is valuable to us! We work hard at trying to find shit so you can enjoy yourself! Let motherfuckers do the work and find that shit on their own! 'Cause I love to do that. My thing is, stop revealing the secrets. Learning about beats is something you have to earn, like a stripe in the Air Force!
I used to think I had to go to these stores where they specialise in rare records, but after years of digging I've realized that beats are everywhere. You can't sleep, it could be right under your nose. Like the Tony Alvon ["Sexy Coffee Pot"]. I didn't think I was going to find that record at all. I went to [notorious NYC area spot with tons of 45s] and he fucking had it in there, and I could not believe that I was feasting my eyes on it! I mean the actual Atco 45! That was sick. My father used to go to that place back in the early '8os. My pops was going to places that I'm just getting up on now! The last time I was there I got there at nine in the morning and left at eight at night. That's a long time but when you're digging you're not even thinking of time. You lose all track of thought! You just keep them ears open and try to find shit!
What catches your eye about a record?
I used to just look at how funky somebody looks on the cover. The whole spectrum of how soulful it looks. But I stopped sleeping 'cause that's all I used to do, just base it on how the cover looks. I bring a portable with me everywhere I go so now I just listen to everything. I try not to sleep on anything. I read the back of albums, credits, of course [record] labels, song titles, instruments. I read up on this music as much as I can. A lot of different musicians played on other people's records, like the Meters played on Lee Dorsey's shit.
What are some of your favorite drum breaks?
There are a lot. "Funky President," James Brown. "Apache." Melvin Bliss. "Impeach the President." There's a lot of rock shit. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath. Kiss. Yeah man, Kiss got drums! I got this one album of theirs, [the part's] real short, it just goes BOOM-BAP! And then the record comes in. But the drums are fuckin' sick. Power of Zeus, Rare Earth. I mean damn, there's a lot of drums out there. Sound Foundation. I've had that record for years and never touched it. And still nobody's sampled it! The Little Richard drums, I used those on the first LP, Mecca and the Soul Brother, on the intro to "Pete's Sake." But [Melvin Bliss's] "Synthetic Substitution," those are the illest drums I've ever heard. The illest pattern of drumming I've ever heard in my entire life. When I heard Ultramagnetic's "Ego Trippin'," I fell in love with it. Ced Gee made that. Him and Paul C., they was gettin' shit. I still don't know how they did the drums on "Give the Drummer Some." Nuff respect due to Paul C. That was the cat right there. He was finding some real ill beats. Large Professor used to tell me how ill his record collection was.
What have you done with Large Pro? How did you guys hook up?
I did a remix of "Think" for Wild Pitch, they liked it but they didn't do anything with it. I did "Vamos a Rapier" for Main Source also. Large and I just linked as friends. We were both lovers of music, and we used to go over each others' cribs, and hang out. We both liked to dig and we would go record shopping together.
You were involved with ATCQs Low End Theory...
I did "We Got the Jazz."
What did you do on that?
The whole beat!
You didn't get credit for it.
No. He shouted me out at the end and that was a big discrepancy for me. What happened was, Tip used to come over all the time. One time the "Jazz" beat was already playing in the drum machine. I went to answer the door and left the beat playing. He came downstairs like, "What the fuck is that?" I even had the records I sampled still sitting there on the turntables because I'd just made the beat. [Lucky Thompson's] Cook County Jail. He was like, "You making this for CL?" and I said I was just fucking with it. But he knew what I used and took the same elements, and made it the exact same way. And then at the end of the record he says, "Pete Rock for the beat ya don't stop." I made that shit. That's my shit. I'm taking all my credit back from n*ggas that stole from me.
You had the "Don't Change Your Love" drums in there too?
The way you hear it on the Tribe album is the way I had it. I had a few other little guitar sounds or something going on in there, I wasn't going to use them anyway, but I was going to use the beat. He came down there and heard it and never said, "Hey Pete, come in the studio and lay this down for us." He didn't tell me he was going to use it. Puffy did the same thing to me with "Juicy." I did the original version, didn't get credit for it. They came to my house, heard the beat going on the drum machine, it's the same story. You come downstairs at my crib, you hear music. He heard that shit and the next thing you know it comes out. They had me do a remix, but I tell people, and I will fight it to the end, that I did the original version of that. I'm not mad at anybody, I just want the correct credit. Fuck that. Y'all can't
just be robbing mu'fuckas. If you didn't do the work, I'ma expose you. When you have an idea and someone just takes it, that's kind of wack. You must not do much clever thinking. I mean, there ain't much to it, just make the fuckin' track. A lot of people have gotten ideas from me, a lot of people have learned from me. And that's all well and good, I love the fact that I can teach somebody. But there's a lot of manipulators out there, they don't do the hard work, and think they can just take somebody's idea.
What do you think about people who actually sample your records? Drum sounds or something like that?
I think that's bullshit. One of Mr. Cheeks's artists jacked "Reminisce" and did it over. I didn't really like that at all, period. I thought it was trash. It wasn't done right. But I'm going to do it myself [remake "Reminisce"], and I guarantee it'll sound incredible. I have the original tracks, so no matter what you take from my record, it's not going to sound as good as what I can put out from the original tracks. And I'll put superstar rappers on it. So, thanks, you just gave me a great idea.
Do you think about that when you leave drums open on a record?
Oh yeah. I know people do that. I heard my snare on one of Fat Joe's records, they sampled a snare from "The Game." The record with Ghost that came out on Loud. That's a deadly snare. I'm not mad, I'm just like, "Oh shit! That's my snare!"
What about talking on the mic in between while the guy's rhyming...
The ad-libs, the thing that Puffy's doing now. I was just doing it, I wasn't thinking about it. One day I was just behind the mic, I was getting ready to rhyme on one of my records, and the beat had me bugging. I was just talking: "Hey!" "Ooh!" "Make it hot," you know, and just left it in the recording.
It seems like Puff picked up on that.
Oh yeah, big time. Ran with that shit. Whatever, I ain't mad at him.
You've never been shy to get on the mic. What've been the reactions to that?
People have their different opinions. But I know I can rhyme so I ain't worried. They can say whatever they want, write their various opinions. I think I can rhyme. I know I can, because when I'm making beats I'm rhyming to myself in my head. Feeling out ideas of Mcs for certain beats, like, "This sounds like Rakim," or "This sounds like Ghost," or "This sounds like CL." I'll try and get that beat to that artist, if I can. When the Rakim record came about we saw each other at Des D and I had a beat tape in my back pocket. I played him the beat that was eventually used for "The Saga Continues." Premier was there too and almost lost a gasket when he heard it. He was like, "Ra, if you don't fuck with that-" [laughs] "-you're crazy." That was a great experience. I would like to do more with Rakim, I think I can experiment with him and make something totally different and crazy but people will like it. I don't know what he's up to now, I heard he wasn't with Dr. Dre anymore and my ears just perked up, you know.
Are there other Mcs out there you'd like to work with?
There's a slew of them. Clipse, LL. I like Nappy Roots, I like Outkast, Ludacris, Jay-Z, Nas, DMX, I like the Lox, that's the hood right there. There's a lot of dope people I want to get with... Sizzla! I worked with Beanie Man, Shabba I'd love to work with. I worked with Super Cat before. I did a reggae joint for him and Hev.
So let's talk about the new album. You and CL are reunited for at least one track on there, right?
Yeah. We hadn't been in touch for a while, and recently just sat down and came to the conclusion that if we got back together we couldn't be stopped. Me and CL have been through so much together... We went to high school together, you know. He rhymed back then, and his voice was so distinctive. He sounded like no one out there. You couldn't say he sounded like another rapper, and that's what attracted me. I thought, let's see what we can do. We made like seventy demos and got signed. We've been on tour, we know every rhymer and producer in this business. We've influenced people, even people we've never met have said that we changed the face of hip-hop. So we're going to try to do some more. Other artists on the new record are Dead Prez, Kweli, Kardinal Offishall, Angie Stone, Mad Skillz, Slum Village, Pharoahe Monch, GZA, Little Brother. I was supposed to hook up with RZA but I don't know if that's going to happen. I haven't chosen a single for the new record yet, it's between Kardinal and CL.
Tell me about what went down with the I-n-I album back in 1996.
We finished the album, turned it in to Elektra and they never put it out, they only put out a single. Sylvia [Rhone] really didn't cooperate, she didn't break bread with me when it came down to resolving that. It was all about her changing everything around. She wanted to change my whole sound. When she said, "You gotta make a beat like Puffy," I just knew it wasn't going to work out. I mean, she didn't understand that he wants to do what I do. He looked up to me, I inspired him, nahmsayin? "Fakin' Jax" was the only I-n-I single put out, it had "Props" on the s-side. But now BBE is putting the album out. They [took] the material straight off the masters so it sounds a lot better than all the bootlegs that're out there.
Speaking of bootlegs, I'm sure you've seen some of the Best of Pete Rock-type comps that are floating around. If you were making a Pete Rock Greatest Beats, what wouldyou put on there?
"What's Next on the Menu," "Death Becomes You," "One in a Million"; all the movie soundtrack shit. The PE remixes: "Shut 'Em Down" and "Night Train." I did those on the same day. Started at twelve, didn't finish until twelve. [House of Pain's] "Jump Around" [remix]. [Das EFX's] "Jussumen" and "Real Hip-Hop." "They Reminisce" and "Straighten It Out" of course. That's my signature sound.
How about "Da Two," that beat is ridiculous. "Blind Alley," right?
You see the making of Soul Survivor nvo? I was making that beat on there. The drums are from "Blind Alley" too. It's just one little piece.
What I love about it is that it's almost like an inside thing for beat-heads. Somebody who didn't know better might say, "It's only one note on the organ you're using, just replay it, why sample?"
It's not just any organ! That's not how it goes. That's not what's up. Yeah man. And the piano is Stanley Cowell, Illusion Suite. I used a lot of shit from that LP.
Another thing that flipped me out was the remix of Jeru's "Can't Stop the Prophet." I knew the loop right away because it's a pretty famous song [the Modern Jazz Quartet's "Django"] but I couldn't figure out how you took the sample.
That's 'cause I have a version of it that's in stereo and I panned it. I'm using both sides of the pan if you listen to it, one side and then the other side. If you listen to the instrumental you'll hear it.
What do you think gives you the knack for putting these innovative beats together?
Just having music in my head all the time. Always having some type of rhythm going in my head. See I'm into the art and craft of it all. There's amazing music out there that people wouldn't believe. I just like to dig for it and share it with the world. 0
