Originality, that damn originality... (pseudophilosophical bs)

[Memento Beats]

Alright, I'm expecting a lot of shit storm in the replies below but I truly want to know what it means to be original?

As a guy who has some experience with music I honestly can't answer that question. I really don't know what it means to be original as people tend to copy what they hear. Basically, everything you make in your beats is some version of something that you heard in the past. Also the fact that we've already invented most of the things in music in my honest opinion it's impossible to be original.

We are limited by many things and tonal system we use is the biggest one of them. We only have 12 sounds that we can use to create something and that's it.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way (and this is the theory that I've supported for years) to create something "new" or "original" (whatever it means) is to combine already existing genres that have not been combined yet. This is just my theory.

Also there is a huge contradiction with what people say they need and what they actually need. The problem is (and it also applies to many conversations I've seen here on ILLmuzik and on discord) the fact that people expect something new, experimental, original, [put here another word that can be used as a synonym for the previous ones] but when someone creates a truly experimental and "new" thing they are not interested in it at all. So where and what is the problem?

I await your responses because I would truly like to know what it means to be "original"?

 

[Iron Keys]

Well we can at least strive to not be extremely unoriginal

 

[Memento Beats]

Well we can at least strive to not be extremely unoriginal

Well, this is the thing though. What does it mean to "not to be extremely unoriginal"?

You see, this the problem. Music as every other form of art is a completely subjective thing. We all have different tastes that were shaped by many many things both associated with music and our personal lives.

For example something that may sound original to you, will not sound original to me. And this is the issue.

I mean what gives people the right to judge what is original and what isn't where we perceive everything differently?

 

[Iron Keys]

These are all thoughts and things I've also had myself, particularly the "everything's a product of what we've heard before" and "if you make something new, people wont know what to do with it and not be interested."

Both are very true, but both are also untrue.

Being original can be a subtle (but big) thing too. If you look at how Timbaland talks about "making people move different", hip-hop wasn't new or original, but ways he did/aproached it could be classed as such.

Whether you're creating a completely new genre, pioneering a new change in direction in an existing one, or just doing it in a slightly unique way that people notice and gets (or could) you standing out from the crowd a bit. That's all original.

You can be original by ignoring the trends, but you can also follow the trends and be original by (for example) wearing the same clothes but a different way.


On the topic of no one being interested...
For sure, you make something completely new and original, people don't have a box to put it in, or to the herd it's outside of their safety trend.

But we have to also remember... just 'cause something is original doesn't necessarily mean it's good. Even when you following trends don't mean your shit is necessarily good... heck, who here doesn't know about making on trend shit and still not getting loads of plays and followers.

The fact is, you could do something weird odd or new and one person might go, oh this shit knocks. And a few others hear it and think the same. From there that shit can build, and you're the only current source of it. That's probably one of the most likely ways you are to build a name for yourself.

Also bear in mind tho... people don't follow the leader; they follow the first follower.


Me and originality...
I'm sure in your observations of this topic you've almost definitely seen me discussing this (and here i am again mfers)

People probably see me discussing this topic and think I'm just condemning others or some shit, but I actually hold this to myself more than anything;

I've said it before; I don't want to make boombap, i don't want to make trap, i don't want to make Storch or whatever. I want to make something new. I want to go beyond. I want to make what's next.

This also rode off the back of me being bored of music and not knowing what to listen to, as everything was something I heard before.

Do I think my music some hyper original stuff? No. And it bugs me. But what I am doing is my own thing, trying to make / combine what I like. I didn't think people would like it when I threw 80s synth funk basses and leads on my tracks, it's not original, but it's fairly niche and no one else on ill is really doing it.
And there are others on here too doing their own thing.

And it's fine to not be original, but maybe try to not be completely unoriginal

 

[DPrezd Beggar]

The ppl are creatures of habit. Everything new gets rejected first or looked at strange.

The key to being original is, if you found something new and get hated for it or just even ignored, that means you re on the right path.
The thing to do then is just keep doing it, if you hold onto it long enough ppl start to realize that you re "keepin it real" and so on.
This will catch ppl and they start to follow.

Think of the time when Gangsta Rap started, before it was all happy hip hop stuff. Those dudes doin G Shit got looked at funny first, producers told them this shit has no future. So ppl like Dre and RZA for example just started to produce on their own.
THIS is something what makes originality for me.

The real interesting thing here is tho that every of my senteces starts with T. OG TO THE FULLEST. GEAH.

 

[OGBama]

“Art lies in the moment of encounter: we meet ourselves and we meet our self-expression. We become original because we become something specific, an origin from which work flows.” Julia Cameron

I like originality but also feel like originality for originality's sake is no different than consciously trying to be different for different's sake. Truth is everyone is part of a lineage artistically. It's not ethnomusicology, music history, etc. just to intellectualize music but it exists to make sense of where are we going, who are we, etc. as people in regard to our music.

 

[TWU]

I think the answer is not so black and white... Music is constantly on the move/evolving.
I see the timeline of the history of music as one big tree with a lot of branches. To be original, I think you have to be on top of the branch and create a new one. This can only be done with a lot of knowledge of already existing material and your own creative input.
Composing music should always be done from creators perspective IMO. And that's exactly why so many bedroom producers all sound the same. They are creating music with their listener/audience in mind. "Because that's what people want to hear..." is the wrong approach if you really want to stand out.

 

[Memento Beats]

I think the answer is not so black and white... Music is constantly on the move/evolving.
I see the timeline of the history of music as one big tree with a lot of branches. To be original, I think you have to be on top of the branch and create a new one. This can only be done with a lot of knowledge of already existing material and your own creative input.
Composing music should always be done from creators perspective IMO. And that's exactly why so many bedroom producers all sound the same. They are creating music with their listener/audience in mind. "Because that's what people want to hear..." is the wrong approach if you really want to stand out.

Wise words, wise words. Beautifully said.

Me and originality...
I'm sure in your observations of this topic you've almost definitely seen me discussing this (and here i am again mfers)

People probably see me discussing this topic and think I'm just condemning others or some shit, but I actually hold this to myself more than anything;

I've said it before; I don't want to make boombap, i don't want to make trap, i don't want to make Storch or whatever. I want to make something new. I want to go beyond. I want to make what's next.

This also rode off the back of me being bored of music and not knowing what to listen to, as everything was something I heard before.

Mmmmm, I wouldn't say so. From my observations most people (including me) see you attacking other people and saying negative things about how things look like here most of the time. It's like whatever is done here or whatever is created here is bad to you. However, it's indifferent to me as I don't want to waste my time arguing with you.

Nevertheless, I reckon that your post above tells a little bit more and is much better to read than your usual stuff you post either here or on discord.

Thank you for your insight on this topic.

 

[LiveLargeBeats]

Timbaland said it himself…music evolves, people evolve and you have to adjust to keep going with the flow or else you will just keep stuck.

I think everything has already been done so far when it comes to new styles. It’s up to your taste which direction you want to go with your music and adjust accordingly.

It’s also very handy to have a certain artist in mind when creating a beat. It makes you push out a certain sound you are aiming for, and recently saw Illmind also saying this (and he is boombap all the way) when demonstrating how he would make a beat blabla.
Myself I do struggle with this because I don’t know a lot of artists or don’t work with artists so you don’t know what really might work for someone.
My geuss to really stand out like Adante said you’ll probably gonna need an artist you can work closely with and (in the studio) create some dope shit together.

 

[OGBama]

Put @LiveLargeBeats your rapper hat on and start spitting to your own soundscape(s).

 

[LiveLargeBeats]

Haha never I’ll just make beats that fits a certain style and build my brand step by step

 

[DPrezd Beggar]

Put @LiveLargeBeats your rapper hat on and start spitting to your own soundscape(s).

How about we get to listen some of your cig blit bombs?

 

[DJ Wax-Turtle]

I find myself kind of original by now after years of making.

I just tryna take from everything i listen to and hear something i havent heard before.
And try it in a beat. And from there my own ideas will pop up in my mind.

 

[Armani]

Alright, I'm expecting a lot of shit storm in the replies below but I truly want to know what it means to be original?

As a guy who has some experience with music I honestly can't answer that question. I really don't know what it means to be original as people tend to copy what they hear. Basically, everything you make in your beats is some version of something that you heard in the past. Also the fact that we've already invented most of the things in music in my honest opinion it's impossible to be original.

We are limited by many things and tonal system we use is the biggest one of them. We only have 12 sounds that we can use to create something and that's it.

As far as I'm concerned, the only way (and this is the theory that I've supported for years) to create something "new" or "original" (whatever it means) is to combine already existing genres that have not been combined yet. This is just my theory.

Also there is a huge contradiction with what people say they need and what they actually need. The problem is (and it also applies to many conversations I've seen here on ILLmuzik and on discord) the fact that people expect something new, experimental, original, [put here another word that can be used as a synonym for the previous ones] but when someone creates a truly experimental and "new" thing they are not interested in it at all. So where and what is the problem?

I await your responses because I would truly like to know what it means to be "original"?

Oh boy, here's some shit I love. this is a question I had for a long while too (and I still kinda have). I'll write an essay on this when I wake up.

 

[Memento Beats]

Oh boy, here's some shit I love. this is a question I had for a long while too (and I still kinda have). I'll write an essay on this when I wake up.

Can't wait

 

[Iron Keys]

Timbaland said it himself…music evolves, people evolve

You seem to like quoting this a lot, which is great! As it's exactly what I'm/been saying.

But the mindset of 'everything's been done let's not try make anything new' and 'make type beats' is in direct contrast to the statement you quote. It's literally going backwards and focusing on doing what's been done before. That's the opposite mindset and action to take in regards to evolving music. Even Timbaland said he's still trying to find 'new ways' to 'make people move different.'

Myself I do struggle with this

Because it's a hindrance. It can be a useful learning tool, but it ultimately stifles individuality/originality/creativity.
Making things with an artist in mind is usually best suited to songwriters, ghost producers, or people producing for pop.
For example, say you went 'Busta Rhymes often on Swizz Beats tracks, so I'll make swizz beats style stuff with Busta in mind', --- if Busta is looking for a Swizz Beats style record, he'll go to Swizz.
Often I notice when you watch rappers/artists going through a producers beats, they often end up going for something slightly different or what stands out to them, which is often not what the producer is expecting they'd go for.

Maybe by trying to focus on making a beat for a specific person, you miss out on making the beat they/some other good act would have chosen.

probably gonna need an artist you can work closely with and (in the studio) create some dope shit together.

Yep! Creating a unique sound/vibe/relationship with an artist is how you can spring to the forefront n shit. If it gets picked up/appreciated obvs.

 

[LiveLargeBeats]

I don’t feel the necessary urge like you have to be creating a whole new vibe.
Get your game on first. Get that brand and name going, and then when you have your followers n got people buying and wanting your beats, and your marketing yourself at a certain level, than you could decide to change into a new direction.

Also, get good at something first. This should be in written in capitals tbh.
Why rush towards something you don’t even know yourself what it is exactly you want to create when you haven’t mastered yet any style?

I like trap, I like some forward boombap, some drill and I’m still learning a lot how to make my sound more than decent. I haven’t mastered any of those fully yet imo. And also I’m enjoying the music, so why would I switch up?

I do understand your passion, but first things first (imo). Or create something that is all the way you and you feel it, and really enjoy it. Cause end of the day it’s about YOU enjoying the producer ride.

 

[Iron Keys]

I've done that. I could make a Storch beat in 0.3 seconds.

But I'm leaving that behind now.

About 90% of my old beats were Storch/Dre. I self taught off of their beats too, so. That's why often I've submitted beats and people reference the Dre style or call it "the Dre beat."

Which is great, but does it even have a place?

But if there's beats out there that tonnes of others are all doing the same thing, there's no point trying to also make it - it's already outdated if everyone's doing it, and there are undoubtedly people already doing it the best, so have to do something different.

 

[LiveLargeBeats]

But if there's beats out there that tonnes of others are all doing the same thing, there's no point trying to also make it - it's already outdated if everyone's doing it, and there are undoubtedly people already doing it the best, so have to do something different.

For you perhaps, but people enjoy making it and enjoy That music. Why bother aiming for another direction? There will be always be people doing it ‘the best’ so that means you will never have to give it a shot or there is no podium place for you?
You are limiting yourself in my point of view. We can’t all be the next thing or dre. Take small steps, be good at what you make. Develop. Become the competition. Do what you love and don’t criticize others just because their journey isn’t what you want it to be.

 

[OGBama]

"Don't be the next thing, be the sure thing." Me