Lessons For Up & Coming Producers

[Formant024]

^^^ that is still a peronal approach, there isn't and shouldn't be a fixed template/layout for a track. To me, it seems less progressive, but that depends on what you are producing and what you are trying to achieve. Like the best selling tracks are probably dull and boring beats that dont change up or vary in composition or arrangement, kinda like piano/ two step tracks for Eminem. Nothing special but he gets the money.

 

[Cold Truth]

Originally Posted by Medicine Man
And I've also heard cats say new producers like 9th Wonder use fruity loops but its not true! 9th wonder uses a MPC 2000xl!

ok.... go to okayplayer.com.... email 9th wonder, and tell him that. he uses FL by HIS OWN ADMISSION. he has spoke on it many times in many interviews, and he is and has been a member of that site for sometime. the man uses fruity looops, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. he does, end of story.


havent we had this EXACT SAME DEBATE A BILLION TIMES ALREADY??? WE HAVE HEARD EVERY CONCIEVABLE ARGUMENT A THOUSAND TIMES OVER. there is nothing more to add. nothing. people are going to use what they choose to, and while it is good to have these debates because they educate people, cant we do a search and look it up? no, because it would just repeat the same exact things over again.

 

[boneyboys]

Hehe, maybe you should just do a big forum search for the words "fruity loops" and close all the threads Truth, you might find one or two questions but it's gunna make your life a hell of a lot easier

 

[Formant024]

quote myself,

We have brains use 'em, make your own opinion you lametards!

 

[Kevin A]

Format you are on point, I agree with everything you said. Alot of people are average or below on this site. People don't even seem to know what mastering does for a piece of music, but they act like thier building a mastering studio and not a recording studio. If you don't know, they are slightly different and you will not find nothing on the market that has not been sent somewhere to be mastered. As for this high end things, basically that's saying pay more to feel secure. People associate more money with more quality when it's not always the case, especially when it come to things that are digital. It would be different if you said, well that software doesn't support 96/24bit, can't use 3rd party plugins, or vsts but that's not the case. In fact, software will not even effect your music as bad as if you don't have monitors that produce sound accurately or you've done nothing about the room acoustics. Alot of people here are just not that nice and want to find something to blame it on. I'm not about to start taking about people, but I will say this, people are attracted to drama, atleast in america. As far as I'm concerned, if you are not good at producing music, can it, even if you use protools.

 

[Formant024]

On the money/gear issue, as far as hardware is concerned, the more you pay the better the quality of that utility ( not total packages but individual pieces of gear ). These are mostly the basic pieces like eq's, comps, limiters, gates, pre-amps and consoles ( with aforementioned included hehe ). So it's killing your wallet when you happen to like hardware for the quality.

Software is not primairly quality, but secondairly placed when considering that in general, software is just much more convenient. All the class a gear you would actualy " need " is therefor emulated in order to make appeal to the products digital oem's development and exploitation. It is not cheaper, it is far more " accesable " or " in reach " if you may.

For instance, a UAD-1 ( mackie ) is not very attractive to have without the UA 1176, Teletronix LA-2A, Pultec eqp and Fairchild 670. What about waves, with their C2 emulation ? All emualtion of hardware classics, but are they as good or better ? I doubt it because, in the setup that you'll find the hardware equivalents or originals you'd also find a big ass analogue console to blend with. The whole outcome of such a production cant and wont sound the same with your DAW that has the matchin'plugs. So what's the value in that ? You dont know unless you work with it in order to make the comparison but you can believe the original will sound better than a single worked out algorithm from such a machine. The difference, the price, difference in execution, your customers, difference in quality, about mars to jupiter.

 

[2_nice]

formant there is a fixed template. check out premier and rza.... and i agree you should not stick to the norm try and get original with it.... and on the mpc fruity loops debate they are both very similar products capable of the same sound. fruity loops can have the same internal resolution as the mpc (96 ppqn) AND ACHIEVE THE SAME 'SWING' etc. digital audio is DIGITAL AUDIO 16 bit is 16 bit in the mpc or in pro tools or in fruity loops a/d and d/a convertors differ but if you are loading samples from zip and exporting by s/pdif it is all the same....... IDIOTS !!!!

 

[SupaStar]

@ Formant
You just gone and messed up my thread huh, everything was alright til you came along and turned it into a heated argument. I am just taking the time out to remind you that we are on a web site dedicated to teaching, not being an ass and not contributing to that effort. I started off pointing out the steps I believe were crucial to taking beat construction to another level, did I say anywhere that you should go and do anything I wrote, no I did not. I only posted facts that just maybe someone could've benefited from, but here you come just like the rest of the know-it-alls in the world, boasting what ya know and believe is right. I dont care if you've met cats like me, for I have met cats like you, cats like you are the ones thats in the studio and follow the same technique everyday and never change cuz people like you dont listen or take suggestions: just because you feel as if you know too much.
No one on here is an idiot or an arse as you suggested because some build beats in they bedroom on computer and ish, we including I know our shit just as well as the best and the rest of the them, including you.
I Rest My Case

 

[Formant024]

You should read and understand before you make assumptions about me. I dont BS and I'm not out to " mess up " your ?! thread. Screw the rest on what you said, I aint ready for this "time of month" pain on my account and Im not beefin' either FGS.

You act like you know me, do you ??? Next time PM or put that tampon in the right hole.

Please



Lock topic, it's screwed now.

 

[Kevin A]

The spread of false, bias, or unresearched information is not teaching Krzy K. You put alot of assumptions out as truth and I believe Format made an attempt to clean it up, not damage your thread, for the simple fact that others are watching this thread. I myself thought that you said some things that where very untrue due to lack of experience, I did and would have done the same thing, no beef intended.

 

[God]

On the money/gear issue, as far as hardware is concerned, the more you pay the better the quality of that utility ( not total packages but individual pieces of gear ). These are mostly the basic pieces like eq's, comps, limiters, gates, pre-amps and consoles ( with aforementioned included hehe ). So it's killing your wallet when you happen to like hardware for the quality.

Software is not primairly quality, but secondairly placed when considering that in general, software is just much more convenient. All the class a gear you would actualy " need " is therefor emulated in order to make appeal to the products digital oem's development and exploitation. It is not cheaper, it is far more " accesable " or " in reach " if you may.

I think Formant brings up a GREAT point. A point which I didn't think many people would know, but I'm glad that Formant DID bring it up, because it is IMPORTANT.

Formant is right when he discusses the importance of the algorithm quality in a specific piece of hardware versus software. Softsynths, though they have a utilitarian purpose, are not the same as the hardware synths they attempt to emulate because there is a lot of "cutting of corners" regarding programming of the software. The more corners that are cut, the more the quality of the programme is diminished.

Many synth/effects manufacturers that have spent years making quality algorithms, like Yamaha or Korg, have a different approach to R&D than somebody just making a softsynth. Eventually the algorithm quality, and the research and design dedicated to the product, on top of overhead... as Formant said, is represented in the price.

The quality of the algorithm used in the synthesiser is very noteworthy. Companies like Yamaha have spent many years tweaking the algorithms to be better. You just don't get that quality from the algorithms provided by an emulator which cut many corners to develop a sound.

Formant has a great point there that we should think about. Before arguments come forth, Formant obviously understands the mathematical implications of music. His point regarding algorithm quality are noteworthy, and I am glad that he can elevate the discussion with that point. Many people don't really know that side of music, and that is a KEY aspect which he pointed out. People should really think about it.

Sincerely,
God

 

[Medicine Man]

com on yall... there are real big differences between hardware and software... if you had used alot of hardware you would know.... i have used alot of both... hardware is closer to an instrument i believe... you learn all the ins and outs and secrets of it.... the swing and the quantizing is different on hardware /vs/ software... i could never really duplicate the swing my sp1200 seems to add to a beat naturally on software or even other hardware for that matter.... im sure some heads know what im talkin bout... its just a natural thing that only happens with the sp1200... the mpc seems to have its own different swing too, eps as well....... having software in it doesnt make it the same thing computer....

First, when I said hardware based gear, I meant any piece of equipment that dosen't use a PC to work. Next, the reason the swing is different on your sp1200 then on Cubase, Reason or FL etc..., is because of the SOFTWARE that the sp1200 uses. Cubase uses the HARDWARE of your computer to run the program, while the sp1200 also uses the HARDWARE of the unit to run its SOFTWARE program. If you could buy the sp1200's SOFTWARE program and use it on a computer it would probaly have the same swing sound. Usaully the HARDWARE only really effects how a piece of equipment will sound at the AD/DA converters. Most of the MIDI funtions are controlled by SOFTWARE, because this is done with mathematics, the HARDWARE has almost nothing to do with how the functions work, it just does what the SOFTWARE tells it.

I gotta disagree with that man. I work with pc since i began and i had machines too (Mc505, djx, worked with a ms2000,etc.) and it doesnt change shit. If you choose well the sound you use with your software sampler, its the same thing as worrking with an mpc, that is an hardware sampler. Plus, its more simple to cut and chop your samples in an audio editor before using in a sampler/sequencer. Find a sample on a vynil and use it in Mpc or in software wut does it change? Its the same fuckin sample. Anyway i know poeple who got 10000$ of stuff that sound wack and i know cats that do bombs in fruity loops. If you think it's the machine that give the result your on the wrong track. It's the guy and the ears sat behind em.

Holla Ace

Hey, I'm just telling it like it is. 95 percent of MAINSTREAM music is made with Pro Tools, and I did not come up with that statistic. And you cannot find a big time producer that dosen't use a high end sampler! Maybe some think that FL sounds as pro as a MPC, great! I DONT CARE! I'm just saying that that's what the big time cats are using , MOST OF THE TIME! Not all of the time. I'm the first person that'll tell some one they can do everything on a PC that they can do on a MPC, but cats keep asking about what the big time guys are using, and their using shit like MPC's. And oh ya, I DO OWN A MPC2000xl and a PC with ACID and REASON. I use SOFTWARE and HARDWARE!!!

Originally Posted by Medicine Man
And I've also heard cats say new producers like 9th Wonder use fruity loops but its not true! 9th wonder uses a MPC 2000xl!

ok.... go to okayplayer.com.... email 9th wonder, and tell him that. he uses FL by HIS OWN ADMISSION. he has spoke on it many times in many interviews, and he is and has been a member of that site for sometime. the man uses fruity looops, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. he does, end of story.


havent we had this EXACT SAME DEBATE A BILLION TIMES ALREADY??? WE HAVE HEARD EVERY CONCIEVABLE ARGUMENT A THOUSAND TIMES OVER. there is nothing more to add. nothing. people are going to use what they choose to, and while it is good to have these debates because they educate people, cant we do a search and look it up? no, because it would just repeat the same exact things over again.

I didn't say 9th WOnder has NEVER used fruity loops, but he used a MPC2000 to make all the beats for the BIG BROTHER album and for the beat he did for JAY Z. I know that for a fact, TRUST ME! And actually, he didn't even have FL before he finished all the beats for the Big Brother album.

 

[XpLiCiiT]

9th wonder did use Fl for the big brother album he said so in a interview he said he used FL and Cool edit for the whole album.

 

[SupaStar]

How far did you have to take it now, now I am reffered to as a woman's incontinent. Funny, but I stand true to everything I posted, for the years I have been producing on my home computer. I produced on Fl Studio and composed my beats to a freestyle layout meaning that I didn't count bars, I just built to feeling and dropped the verse whenever I felt the vibe was right and never once was my tracks recognized or sold, even though they were up to par and well composed. Where was the advice I needed then huh, you weren't around Formant, nor you Kevin,.Neither of you whom had the knowledge shared anyhting, so I researched myself to find out why my tracks weren't recognized, and it so happened I found that article and decided I would change things around, in the pace of several months I bought a second hand midi keyboard and several Reason packs an equalizer and an Audigy card,
Now for some reason I am selling beats like the water man on a hot summers day, and in the progress of renting a basment to finally build my studio. Now tell me am I worng now to post this thread, my facts weren't off key, it was something I experienced first hand. I just believed that getting all that equipment had sommin to do with it, but I guess I am too much of a stupid womans incontinent to post my personal thoughts.

 

[ola]

new guy here......Excuse me for joining in the interesting convo...I've been producing for three years......I started out making beats on an MpC in a studio paying for studio time....then my partner got a hold of fl and gave it to me and my beats have sounded way better than the ones i did on the MP...not only that, I've had friends play my beats for people and people actually argue with them when they tell them that the beats were made on fruity loops (and no one has believed it yet even some heavy metal guy that plays in a live rock band thought it was big time hip hop studio equipment...u know MPC, Trinity whatever else)....i've also been told by a lot of people that my beats sound professional...it takes the individual's level of creativity and skill I guess.....even though i started on an Mpc i would rather fruity loops any day because of course it's user friendly and i have found ways to to manipulate fruity loops to play samples in the way that i want (creative manipulation- I call it).....and i have come out with incredible tracks as well as my partners....and if u are a diehard hip hop head then trust me the computer software that people tend to look down on as rinky dink can actually make ill ass hip hop tracks believe that....and i'm still trying to get an MP but first i'm going to hustle my little fruity loop beats because they're hot and pretty soon yall will be able to hear a few and i promise you i will not disappoint.

 

[boneyboys]

The quality of the algorithm used in the synthesiser is very noteworthy. Companies like Yamaha have spent many years tweaking the algorithms to be better. You just don't get that quality from the algorithms provided by an emulator which cut many corners to develop a sound.

It's an interesting point that, and I don't know the inner working of these companies, but don't they just work on converting the algorithm into a computer language rather than starting from scratch and trying to emulate that way? I guess that's just what would make sense to me, but newer synths are getting so damn complicated I guess it takes a lot of fiddling to get anywhere close to a decent representation. Definitely worth thinking about though, and what about effects, would the same thing hapen with a compression algorithm, it is better "programmed" on a hardware compressor. Questions questions, and ideas on these God? Or anyone else for that matter!

 

[Kevin A]

Krzy I know you don't believe what you just posted. That because of your equipement, you started selling beats. People find ways to get their source of inspiration. People like you may need expensive equipement to boost your confidence. However, the confidence issue is what's selling your beats, not your equipement. I don't need that boost, I'm nice on whatever you wanna tell me to use. Believe in yourself and your own abilities. That's like saying I can't cook good food unless I got $200 dollar pots & pans.

 

[Formant024]

How far did you have to take it now, now I am reffered to as a woman's incontinent. Funny, but I stand true to everything I posted, for the years I have been producing on my home computer. I produced on Fl Studio and composed my beats to a freestyle layout meaning that I didn't count bars, I just built to feeling and dropped the verse whenever I felt the vibe was right and never once was my tracks recognized or sold, even though they were up to par and well composed. Where was the advice I needed then huh, you weren't around Formant, nor you Kevin,.Neither of you whom had the knowledge shared anyhting, so I researched myself to find out why my tracks weren't recognized, and it so happened I found that article and decided I would change things around, in the pace of several months I bought a second hand midi keyboard and several Reason packs an equalizer and an Audigy card,
Now for some reason I am selling beats like the water man on a hot summers day, and in the progress of renting a basment to finally build my studio. Now tell me am I worng now to post this thread, my facts weren't off key, it was something I experienced first hand. I just believed that getting all that equipment had sommin to do with it, but I guess I am too much of a stupid womans incontinent to post my personal thoughts.

Well, life too is quite relative, do I need to explain that ? I remain objective to the subject and elaborate to give some perspective to others. The rest is simply using your head and become autodidact in order to get skills cq experience. What I didn't think of was the lucrative side of your account opposed to the topic. I mean, a lesson for up and coming producers would more likely be a topic for indstr. talks. as I see it now. It just reminded me about a quote from god, 'bout how the planets and sun were aligned, that your case.

As for the rest, I'm no pro, I doubt fullsail/sae would learn me anything interesting, I learned by buying the gear over the past years anyone here is welcome to doubt my integrity on either both software and hardware and anything music related in general. Even when I'm wrong I make an addition to a thread simply because I was wrong which proves what's right.

now back to the program

 

[Cold Truth]

medicine man, 9th HIMSELF says that it took him 3 YEARS to "master" FL... and that HE STILL USES it. and, he SAID HIMSELF in an XXL interview that he did threats on his LAPTOP. i would believe him before i would believe you... so much for your facts.... unless 9th is just telling people that. he is on okaypalyer.com (he is an okartist, not just some guy saying he is 9th wonder) so if you like go ask him yourself.

 

[Medicine Man]

I did ask him. I will post the e-mail soon and then maybe you will beleive me. And where are these interviews? Can someone actually post a link or something?