Keys and Chord Progressions

[AdsumDrive]

Hey all... first post here..
First I wanted to say.. props to Fade for making this site.. it's crazy and full of useful info.. thanks man!!

So.. I'm fairly new to music, but I am figuring out some of the basics..
Some things I do have trouble with .. is "hearing" things and recognizing them..

For example.. what keys are used in most hip hop today?? I'm assuming that most club type beats and stuff use the major keys, to give them a happy feel.. but are any used more than most?

Also.. are basic chord progressions used in hip hop? Like some I know are things like I-IV-V or I-VI-IV-V-I etc, etc... in a lot of hip hop.. i hear the same type of phrase repeated over and over, but can't really tell if it's the same chord or not... any thoughts?

I would love it if someone could give me an example of a song that's out there and talk about the key it's in and the chord progressions that are used... just trying to get an idea of where to get started as far as getting ideas for my own stuff...

Thanks in advance!
peace

 

[afriquedeluxe]

my man classic should be able to help out. ill tell u this tho, most hiphop or rnb producers make beats by the ear, theres not many that sit down and say okay am gona use a i-iv-v progression. not to say thats it bad to use it, but that kind of stuff i feel kind of limits your creativity. just use those rules as guidelines but dont just stick to them cuz theyll hold u back

 

[AdsumDrive]

my man classic should be able to help out. ill tell u this tho, most hiphop or rnb producers make beats by the ear, theres not many that sit down and say okay am gona use a i-iv-v progression. not to say thats it bad to use it, but that kind of stuff i feel kind of limits your creativity. just use those rules as guidelines but dont just stick to them cuz theyll hold u back

Hey Afrique...
Thanks for the info.. and I definitely agree.. I'm sure that kind of progression isn't used much and limits you as far as where you can take music.
I guess the thing is I'm starting from scratch here, and I am looking for a starting point, cause just noodling around on the keyboard isn't getting me too far... but I'll keep at it.
Thanks man!

 

[classic]

Sup man

What musical background do u have. Have u ever played any instrument or takin any formal music lessions??? If soo then learning theory should be realtivly easy...

if not??
work on your ear. Since ur just starting out i would experiment before i jump head over heals into theory. A trained ear is much more important than theory. Listen to some jazz,blues,soul etc and try to play along with the chourd progessions. Sit at the keys and go wild. Once u start to get a handle on what works then u should start to tackle theory. To start off with basic theory do an internet search on the circle of 5ths.

Hip hop is not that complicated and u dont need much musical training. Now if u plan on doing hip hop and R&B thats a differnt story

An example... R&B or hip hop
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=1696715&q=Hi
http://www.soundclick.com/util/streamM3U.m3u?ID=1696715&q=Lo

Notice with this song i use a simple call and response, F major chourd progession. I follow the melody of the chourds with the strings to give a meldoic effect during the chours. I also layerd the piano underneith the gutiar for a full sound.

The bassline is the same as the meldodoy just 2 octive lower. Notice that i made the bassline very subtle for this song since it is a laid back track

The brige is just the realitve minor of the orginal key signaure (which is F) U can use realitve minors alot for brigdges since they fit well. U can learn that with the circle of 5ths


But here is the kicker i just explained all that theroy to u, but it was all after the fact. I dident think of all that stuff when i was creating the song. I just played it till it sounded right. U do not need theory to become a great producer. Most of the time it just helps u explain what your already doing naturally. Theory is always great but it will not make u a better musican if u dont have the natural abilitiy

class..

 

[TBERRY]

Some Times CHORDS R NEEDED

Not All Producers Play Keys Or Some Kind Of Instr. So There Is Less Chords In Some Traxs But More Of You R&b Kind Of Hip Hop Traxs Use Chords I Use Some Of Every Thing I Play Keys And Alto Sax, But Some Time To Much Chords Makes The Traxs Sound To Happy And Not Gutter Or Street E-nuff. So You Got To Pick When To Use Chords. Just My O-pen-yan.

 

[AdsumDrive]

Sup man

What musical background do u have. Have u ever played any instrument or takin any formal music lessions??? If soo then learning theory should be realtivly easy...

if not??
work on your ear. Since ur just starting out i would experiment before i jump head over heals into theory. A trained ear is much more important than theory. Listen to some jazz,blues,soul etc and try to play along with the chourd progessions. Sit at the keys and go wild. Once u start to get a handle on what works then u should start to tackle theory. To start off with basic theory do an internet search on the circle of 5ths.

Hip hop is not that complicated and u dont need much musical training. Now if u plan on doing hip hop and R&B thats a differnt story

class..

Sup Classic,

I started taking piano lessons a couple years back, so I'm ok on the keys.. and I've been taking theory at my school too, where I'm learning all kinds of cool ish about midi and production.

Thanks for the tips. I guess it is all training the ear.. I mean I hear things and I am just not always sure what they are.. so is that how you learned? just sitting at the keys and playing around?

anyway, that's a cool beat man.. thanks for sharing it.

peace

 

[Cold Truth]

hmmmmmmmm well,

i never really new there were specific chord progressions that people use... and quite frankly i dont care to use a specific 'type' personally. and i suggest that you stay away from them yourself....

i have developed my ear 'feel', and sense of structure quite well with absolutely zero understanding of theory or anything- not on some ego tip, just that i have learned to create from the heart and not from a rule book. i am just now beginning to get into the theoretical aspects of it, and that knowledge will help but i believe that i have learned far greater things by being ignorant of the 'rules'.

my advice to you, would be to feel out chord progressions by listening. play simple progressions with the piano and layer a basic string melody over it to match the progression, and add your bass to match the kick track and accent your string line........ that would be some general suggestions to get you started. anyhow, hit me or class up via pm or aim if you ever want some tips or need help.... afrique has a good 'composers' ear as well...

oh, and class has loooong and exstensive training; he's a classically trained pianist, hence the name, classic.

 

[Dysphuncktional]

if you do a forum search on 'theory' with my name theres a nice long post for ya. I think what you meant with trouble having 'hearing' things is that you sometime have trouble figuring out like how they got that chord to sound that way. I had the same problem, i have a good 'composers' ear or whatever to, ive heard if something was right or in key or whatever all my life, just sometimes when trying to play along with the chili peppers or something on my guitar i heard and knew what the 'root note' was (the first tone in a chord) and also whether it was a minor chord or major chord, but the chilli peppers have some funky ass chords so i would sometime have to try dozens of different variations of chords in that particular 'root note' and tonality(major/minor) before i got it right. (If you do this a lot you will get used to those chords more and start identifying them better beforehand of course due to experience.) So basically, its not necessary at all (theory) to have good melodys, chords, progressions or whatever, you can learn all that shit on your own through lots and lots of practice. This is a fact that noone can deny at all, there is not a single person alive who was god like and genius on a particular instrument or whatever or with making music 100% naturally. It takes practice, just like anything. (and lets not forget that most of these 'gods' (f.e. jimi, stevie, tori, prince, etc.) started out when they could barely talk which means what? that they practiced more than you can imagine )

You already seem to know a little bit, so my advice is just getting to know your scales well and the intervals in these scales. Sitting at your keyboard with basic theory knowledge of this messing around in c major/a minor (every scale has a relative minor like classic said, a minor is C, basically the 6th interval of a major scale is its relative minor ) teaches you a lot. I strongly suggest like afrique said to learn by ear and practice alot before you start learning about chord progressions. mess around with the scales first and learn the chords in tyhat scale (harmonize that scale, basically this means that in c major, when forming a chord starting on its second interval (d) make sure the rest all the keys in this chord share all the keys with the c-major scale (so no black keys); you end up with d-minor btw then ) you dont really need to learn chord progressions, you should only go on if you really want to learn theory. Its just helpful thats all, saves time. Once i learned it i could combine my already trained ear, years of practice and theory to figure out alot of those chilli peppers (for one example ) chords nearly instantly. There are only so many posibilitys, theory speeds things up because now you have a database of interval relations, chords etc that you can quickly search to know instantly if you are hearing a sustained chord, or a 6th, a 7th, etc blabla. Most of the time the things you hear conform to the most basic of simple scale/interval theory so it works. This brings to my next point.

Afrique shouted most hiphop artists dont sit down and say 'im gonna use a standard blues triad progression (i-iv-v)'. He is mos def correct, no doubt about that. And everyone else was 100% right about that you really dont need to know or do this shit that way. Im not gonna argue with that at all. Just learn it to help you out a bit as i suggested if you are interested in it and maybe wanna speed some shit up (like figuring out those chords you hear), and else just sit yo ass down and MAKE BEATS G-MONEY! practice, practice, practice. fuck around fuck around fuck around. in any case!

PEACE in tha middle east!

(damn im lame)

 

[CampO]

I agree with Truth I dont no shit about Music Theory what i do is just try and do is start a basic piano melody and just Fill it up with more sounds or Add some chords 2 it 1 thing i wanna no is from 1 of u theory guys or who ever knows is what does CHORD PrOGRESSION mean exactly and can you guys explain this to me without giving me some link to some big article because half the time when i read these articles i Get Confused out my mind Just Break it down in some Simple English For my Simple brain lol

oh yea and could 1 of yall gimme the definiton of a bridge cuz my brother ask me the other day and i duno if i gave him the right answer which was "A bridge is when you Introduce a new sound into the song or when You Change up your melody a bit " is this right or am i totally wrong on that ?

 

[CampO]

oh yea and could 1 of yall gimme the definiton of a bridge cuz my brother ask me the other day and i duno if i gave him the right answer which was "A bridge is when you Introduce a new sound into the song or when You Change up your melody a bit " is this right or am i totally wrong on that ?

 

[Dysphuncktional]

yo, a chord progression, the exact definition? hmmm, im afraid i cant give you one, its basically just a description of some chords you use that might be in a certain 'key' that progress to something or resolve (resolve = make you feel like the chords are done and can be played all over again ). If you dont care much about theory dont worry about it to much, just think of it as a fancy word to describe a few chords in a particular song.
And the definition of a bridge, well, i dont think of anything in music as being concretely 'defined' regardlessly, but its just a description of a part of the song that has some different chords maybe, or that 'bridges' to a different set of chords or melodys maybe. Just think of it as a way to change the feel of your tune for a few bars, and perhaps help make the transition smoother if you are gonna make some different melodys and chords and beats with the same samples or whatever for example. I personally think of it more like people letting ya know the song is almost done hehehe

 

[classic]

oh yea and could 1 of yall gimme the definiton of a bridge cuz my brother ask me the other day and i duno if i gave him the right answer which was "A bridge is when you Introduce a new sound into the song or when You Change up your melody a bit " is this right or am i totally wrong on that ?

Chourd progession- They way ur chourds progress or "build" thoughout a song.

class...

 

[CampO]

o ok i think i was on the right track anyways for the bridge but the chord progression i always thought meant u play your first chords then progress onto a new set of chords and keep progressing to a new set of chords so like

CHord 1 then CHord 2 then CHord 3 and then go back to Chord 1 and repeat the process

lol hope i didint confuse you or u understand wat im tryna say

 

[AdsumDrive]

yo Dysphuncktional!
that was a great posting... i read your other one and it makes a lot of sense. thanks a lot man
i was playing around last night at school on logic and an EX5 and started getting some cool stuff just by playing around and not worrying too much about the chord progression... just keeping it in the back of my mind and staying in key... still a work in progress but you and classic definitely helped me as far as how i think about thing...
i'll definitely be posting more questions as they come.
peace

 

[Dysphuncktional]

o ok i think i was on the right track anyways for the bridge but the chord progression i always thought meant u play your first chords then progress onto a new set of chords and keep progressing to a new set of chords so like

CHord 1 then CHord 2 then CHord 3 and then go back to Chord 1 and repeat the process

lol hope i didint confuse you or u understand wat im tryna say

You got it, thats basically what it is (and what i was trying to say lol) ;P
But its not a set of chords, im not sure what you mean by that? a chord is just a set of notes. but you can see it more like playing through a set of chords, not playing one set of chords and then a new set of chords (although that is possible too ).

 

[CampO]

well thats wat im talkin about playin 1 set of chords then playing a new set when i say this i mean like

C D E then progress to G B D then progress to D F A this is what i would call chord progression . But im pretty sure this cant be what Chord Progression means cuz thats to easy to be Music theory I think ! lol even a monkey can do that

 

[Dysphuncktional]

yo jimbo i havent found on may sites that got very specific about shit, but some basic guidelines for ya:
blues = all dominants
jazz = all 7ths of some kind (and doe a search on the turnarounds and tritone)
funk = funk has a lot of jazz and blues elements, one thing ive found that works great for me when getting funky is making chords out of stacked fourths rather than the usual stacked 3rds
there is much more to that shit than just this of course ;P

just practice my man, follow afriques advice and learn by ear, pop in that old sly & the family stone, george clinton, or curtis mayfield if you want to learn some funky shit and just jam along. Maybe you can look for guitar tabs of certain songs, some of these have the chords at the top along the bar.

 

[M!nd_Ctrl]

I think a pretty good resource on this matter is Scott Houston's site. His lessons are simple and stress the importance feeling comfortable, not always sticking to the conventions of piano play. Anyways, he focuses mostly on the Blues scale which is the most commonly used scale in all genres of music and has a chapter in his book on progression. So check the book out it's around $12 at Barnes and Noble or get the DVDs which are better.


Here's the site:
http://www.scottthepianoguy.com/