is this a common issue? (mixing complaint)

[Armani]

so I finish mixing a few tracks and I send the demoes to this cuckold, and here's the feedback I get:

I'd normally assume if something sounds good on decent monitors then it most likely sounds good on everything. is this a common issue?

I wanna edit the tracks but I'm afraid if I tweak stuff it'll end up sounding worse on the monitors it apparently sounds good on.

 

[Fade]

so I finish mixing a few tracks and I send the demoes to this cuckold, and here's the feedback I get:

View attachment 6695

I'd normally assume if something sounds good on decent monitors then it most likely sounds good on everything. is this a common issue?

I wanna edit tf out of the tracks but I'm afraid if I tweak stuff it'll end up sounding worse on the monitors it apparently sounds good on.

It was always understood that as long as your mix is done properly on a decent pair of studio monitors, it will sound good on pretty much anything. That's the whole point of having good studio monitors.

But who knows with this guy. Nowadays there's earphones, earbuds, headphones, Bluetooth speakers, etc. It's pretty vague when he says "mediocre speakers". Dollar store speakers? Walmart speakers? Old stereo speakers?

Maybe just tell him not to listen to the mixes on those mediocre speakers.

 

[2GooD Productions]

This is why these things exist...

Auratone 5C Super Sound Cube Classic

Passive Reference Monitor Pair Loudspeakers: 4.5" full range speaker, Rated power: 25 W RMS / 50 W peak, SPL / sensitivity: 90 dB at 1W / 1m, Frequency range: 75 / 15,000 Hz, Impedance: 8 Ω, Magnetically shielded, Housing made of 16 mm MDF,...

www.thomann.de

By mediocre I assume he means frequency response.
The Auratones and Avantones are designed to help a mix translate across to "mediocre" setups, with limited frequency range. Like whether the kick cuts through the mix and has some presence even on shitty speakers, the 800hz boost on kicks helps to get the kick to translate.

 

[Memento Beats]

I'd normally assume if something sounds good on decent monitors then it most likely sounds good on everything. is this a common issue?

It is a common issue I would say. And no, if something sounds good on high end sound gear like monitors or some studio headphones designed for mixing it doesn't necessarily have to sound good on low cost gear (ear buds, cheap headphones, smartphones, laptop speakers etc). This is why it's always good to check how you mix sounds on those cheaper gear or on some monitors/headphones or something that will emulate the sound of mediocre gear.

This is why I always check how something sounds on my laptop speakers and phone speakers and believe me it took me years to actually make my kick drums and bass be audible on this kind of things. Everything sounded okay when I was mixing it on my headphones (I use Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO for making music) but when I played it on my phone it sounded like shit. This kind of mixing is also used by many producers, for example I heard that Kendrick Lamar's producer mixes everything in mono because if something sounds good in mono then it will sound great on every shitty gear. And you have to take it into considerations that most people that listen to music usually don't have some high end headphones or something like that. They just wanna listen to something on their way to work, at work, in the gym etc.

Also you might say: "But hey, what the hell are you even talking about if you mix everything on headphones?" -> And I would reply that it's the matter of knowing your gear that also makes tremendous difference to your mixes. I know how good music sounds on those headphones that I've been using for the last 7 years and I just trust my ears and my headphones. You may believe it or not but I even don't feel the need to plug my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 in to make good sounding mix. I just know my gear. For sure if I want to make it sound better I plug the audio interface in and I mix. However, you may believe it or not, but sometimes after checking my mix on a regular sound card and on my laptop speakers I'm able to make some elements of my mix sound better than when that audio interface is plugged in. Or maybe that's just my impression.

So I would say there are a few solutions to this issue and to avoid similar situations in the future:

- Check your mix on some budget gear like cheap headphones etc. and make adjustments accordingly
- Mix in mono or check your mix in mono, there are lots of plugins that emulate mono sound
- Use pink noise when mixing (personally, I'm not a fan of this technique but I heard it helps some producers make their mixes better)
- Learn your gear and know its ins and outs

Maybe just tell him not to listen to the mixes on those mediocre speakers.

Very bad advice in my opinion. Sounds very unprofessional and it's not a good customer experience. It's like you left your car at some garage to fix your brakes, a mechanic repairs them partly, you say to him: "But I wanted to repair them fully" and the mechanic replies: "So use your brakes less or drive slower." I know that the example I brought may be a little bit exaggerated but it doesn't resolve the customer's issue. According to them, the mix has something badly done. And for sure they may be wrong about it but replying like this is far from professional.

 

[Fade]

Very bad advice in my opinion. Sounds very unprofessional and it's not a good customer experience.

I was being sarcastic.

But in theory it's supposed to sound good on everything but of course you have to test everything out, like the ol' reliable check it in your car scenario as well.

 

[Iron Keys]

I'd normally assume if something sounds good on decent monitors then it most likely sounds good on everything

It was always understood that as long as your mix is done properly on a decent pair of studio monitors, it will sound good on pretty much anything

Cross-referencing

 

[Fade]

Cross-referencing

No doubt. Mixing in a home studio or just on headphones can be a challenge of course but it's always good to have a decent setup and test it on as many speakers/headphones we can. It's never going to be perfect on every device but we can get close.

@Armani Are you using headphones or do you have speakers to mix?

Here's some reading material:

Here’s Why You Should Test Your Mixes On Multiple Playback Devices

People might listen to your music on any one of thousands of devices. Here’s why you should listen back on as many as possible, and an insider tip on how to sho

ask.audio

Why Do Mixing Engineers Use Multiple Pairs of Studio Monitors?

Mixing engineers use multiple pairs of studio monitors to achieve the best possible sound. Read on to find out how this works and how you can do it, too!

audioapartment.com

Recording & Mixing Audio for Mobile Devices

If you’re in the market of producing audio-centric content like vlogs or podcasts, you should care a lot about mixing for mobile.

counterweightmedia.com

Also, this thread reminds me of Matty Harris, he's got some solid videos about mixing and seems to have quite a few Hip Hop clients.

 

[Armani]

It is a common issue I would say. And no, if something sounds good on high end sound gear like monitors or some studio headphones designed for mixing it doesn't necessarily have to sound good on low cost gear (ear buds, cheap headphones, smartphones, laptop speakers etc). This is why it's always good to check how you mix sounds on those cheaper gear or on some monitors/headphones or something that will emulate the sound of mediocre gear.

This is why I always check how something sounds on my laptop speakers and phone speakers and believe me it took me years to actually make my kick drums and bass be audible on this kind of things. Everything sounded okay when I was mixing it on my headphones (I use Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO for making music) but when I played it on my phone it sounded like shit. This kind of mixing is also used by many producers, for example I heard that Kendrick Lamar's producer mixes everything in mono because if something sounds good in mono then it will sound great on every shitty gear. And you have to take it into considerations that most people that listen to music usually don't have some high end headphones or something like that. They just wanna listen to something on their way to work, at work, in the gym etc.

Also you might say: "But hey, what the hell are you even talking about if you mix everything on headphones?" -> And I would reply that it's the matter of knowing your gear that also makes tremendous difference to your mixes. I know how good music sounds on those headphones that I've been using for the last 7 years and I just trust my ears and my headphones. You may believe it or not but I even don't feel the need to plug my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 in to make good sounding mix. I just know my gear. For sure if I want to make it sound better I plug the audio interface in and I mix. However, you may believe it or not, but sometimes after checking my mix on a regular sound card and on my laptop speakers I'm able to make some elements of my mix sound better than when that audio interface is plugged in. Or maybe that's just my impression.

So I would say there are a few solutions to this issue and to avoid similar situations in the future:

- Check your mix on some budget gear like cheap headphones etc. and make adjustments accordingly
- Mix in mono or check your mix in mono, there are lots of plugins that emulate mono sound
- Use pink noise when mixing (personally, I'm not a fan of this technique but I heard it helps some producers make their mixes better)
- Learn your gear and know its ins and outs


Very bad advice in my opinion. Sounds very unprofessional and it's not a good customer experience. It's like you left your car at some garage to fix your brakes, a mechanic repairs them partly, you say to him: "But I wanted to repair them fully" and the mechanic replies: "So use your brakes less or drive slower." I know that the example I brought may be a little bit exaggerated but it doesn't resolve the customer's issue. According to them, the mix has something badly done. And for sure they may be wrong about it but replying like this is far from professional.

that's a really well-thought-out response, thanks. I'll defo check my masters in mono now, tho I looked up the pink noise technique too but it seems a little bit like a hustler trick, I get why u didn't stick with it.

No doubt. Mixing in a home studio or just on headphones can be a challenge of course but it's always good to have a decent setup and test it on as many speakers/headphones we can. It's never going to be perfect on every device but we can get close.

@Armani Are you using headphones or do you have speakers to mix?

Here's some reading material:

Here’s Why You Should Test Your Mixes On Multiple Playback Devices

People might listen to your music on any one of thousands of devices. Here’s why you should listen back on as many as possible, and an insider tip on how to sho

ask.audio

Why Do Mixing Engineers Use Multiple Pairs of Studio Monitors?

Mixing engineers use multiple pairs of studio monitors to achieve the best possible sound. Read on to find out how this works and how you can do it, too!

audioapartment.com

Recording & Mixing Audio for Mobile Devices

If you’re in the market of producing audio-centric content like vlogs or podcasts, you should care a lot about mixing for mobile.

counterweightmedia.com

Also, this thread reminds me of Matty Harris, he's got some solid videos about mixing and seems to have quite a few Hip Hop clients.

those were some cool articles, especially the phone one. I still didn't get the time to watch the vids tho, it's been mad busy lately, I barely get time to work on the mixes anyway.

Maybe just tell him not to listen to the mixes on those mediocre speakers.

man I know you're only joking but it gets really hard trying not to lash the fuck out at people some days.

 

[2GooD Productions]

man I know you're only joking but it gets really hard trying not to lash the fuck out at people some days.

I miss the old ruthless no fucks given version of you

 

[Fade]

man I know you're only joking but it gets really hard trying not to lash the fuck out at people some days.

I understand. For me I relate it to when I designed websites for clients and they wanted stupid shit and I'd just look at them:

I miss the old ruthless no fucks given version of you

I agree. The old ruthless Iranian Storch.

 

[konceptG]

It was always understood that as long as your mix is done properly on a decent pair of studio monitors, it will sound good on pretty much anything. That's the whole point of having good studio monitors.

But who knows with this guy. Nowadays there's earphones, earbuds, headphones, Bluetooth speakers, etc. It's pretty vague when he says "mediocre speakers". Dollar store speakers? Walmart speakers? Old stereo speakers?

Maybe just tell him not to listen to the mixes on those mediocre speakers.

Yes and no.

The mixing standard back in the day was the Yamaha NS10. Every single studio you went into had a pair as the primary monitors even if they had high dollar mega monitors in there as well. The rationale was that the NS10's sounded so bad that if you could gt a mix to sound good on them then it translated extremely well to pretty much every other listening environment imaginable. Plus, they were so ubiqutous that an engineer could walk into any studio and wouldn't have to "learn" their monitors as the NS10's provided a common point of reference.

Teddy Riley's secret mixing weapon back in the 90's was a pair of these Radio Shack speakers in the studio:

Radio Shack Optimus Pro 7's. He would A-B his mixes against a pair of them with the understanding that if a mix sounded good on them, then it should sound good elsewhere.

When I mixdown stuff, I check it against my car, headphones(earbuds), and my home stereo. That way the bases are covered .

 

[Fade]

Yes and no.

The mixing standard back in the day was the Yamaha NS10. Every single studio you went into had a pair as the primary monitors even if they had high dollar mega monitors in there as well. The rationale was that the NS10's sounded so bad that if you could gt a mix to sound good on them then it translated extremely well to pretty much every other listening environment imaginable. Plus, they were so ubiqutous that an engineer could walk into any studio and wouldn't have to "learn" their monitors as the NS10's provided a common point of reference.

Teddy Riley's secret mixing weapon back in the 90's was a pair of these Radio Shack speakers in the studio:

Radio Shack Optimus Pro 7's. He would A-B his mixes against a pair of them with the understanding that if a mix sounded good on them, then it should sound good elsewhere.

When I mixdown stuff, I check it against my car, headphones(earbuds), and my home stereo. That way the bases are covered .

Exactly. Just as others have pointed out, referencing on various sources is of course the way to go.

I use to have just some regular stereo speakers to mix on and they were really bassy but at least I knew them so I would adjust. Same with headphones.

That's funny about those Radio Shack speakers lol.

 

[konceptG]

Exactly. Just as others have pointed out, referencing on various sources is of course the way to go.

I use to have just some regular stereo speakers to mix on and they were really bassy but at least I knew them so I would adjust. Same with headphones.

That's funny about those Radio Shack speakers lol.

Those Radio Shack speakers sounded surprisingly good. They have a 1" soft dome tweeter, the enclosure is solid metal so there's very little, if any flex from low notes and it's ported. I've wanted a pair since I first saw them in the 80's but never got around to buying 'em (they were sold individually). I read that about Teddy in one of the recording magazines back in the 90's.

I used to mix on a pair of Bose Roommates I bought back in '94. My mixes sounded tuuuuuurrble when I got it to the ride. I really had to learn those speakers. It got easier once I got my hands on a couple of Alesis mono EQ's so I could EQ out the issues and mix reasonably well on them. (I still have those speakers too, they're in my closet right now).

 

[Space_The_Face]

My mix always sounds good on the monitors, always sounds good in my head phones, always sounds good on my phone (with basic headphones) but sometimes sounds wildy different on my car stereo. The bass will be too low, the snare will be too high... Whatever it is, it is always something.

I've started paying more attention to the music I listen to (other than my own,lol) and have come to see that many commercial songs have this problem as well. It's just harder to notice because you didn't make the song yourself.

I think with all of the different mediums now adays, you just can't worry about how it's going to sound through every audio system imaginable.