Recently, I have noticed that a few people on this site have a problem with 4 bar loops.....Is there really anyway to make music anutha way.....I alwys thought that a loop was a loop......Adding dropouts to tha song doesn't constitute anymore music being played, that's basically an arrangement. If u listen to hip hop of today, it's really nothing special, just a couple of hot sounds and vocals....I'm starting to see a trend on illmuzik against loops, and tha few people with tha probs are just adding dropouts to their music....I think its hard to judge music w/o words personally, because the vocalist adds so much more to music.......This fact is proven by the neptunes....IE Grindin...and Busta What it is right now......A lot of the times the music that we hear on tha radio is what they call "studio magic" Have u eva noticed when listening to todays hip hop that its really basic, but it sounds fantastc? I think the people with tha problems with loops, should calm down and realize what's being done.....If it's hot it's hot....What else can u do with a loop?
Illmuzik members against 4 bar loops
- Thread starter N.A.R.
- Start date
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DJ Excellence
ILLIEN
I totally agree with you ...
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
um....
well, i see it like this:
for one, your examples didnt do much to prove yuor cause. i dont think the word "simple" is the right word, i think "plain" is more appropriate. just because the current market sales in a certain way, that does not mean that our views, thoughts and styles should change accordingly. you may prefer to emulate the current industry standards and do what is being done because that is what currently stands... but many of us do not.
as far as the whole issue of "simple" beats versus "complex" beats, well....
its basically the EXACT SAME ISSUE as the "sampling vs i-play-everything-myself" argument.
the answer being, ultimately, this:
you can debate this all day long and critique and give your view, but at the end of the day, there is no definitive answer to it. its a circular question. in the end, you will do you and thats all. thats it. whatever works. beats are always dictated by the producers particular tastes, vision and style in conjunction with the artist they are working with. everyone is different. everyone DOES WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE THATS WHAT THEY DO.
i dont really understand the argument at all. its pointless and fruitless.
there are countless classic songs from both sides of the coin, but the thing is we are judging these beats by them being beats- so a four bar loop all the way through can seem monotonous. if its intent is to be a song THAT IS AN INSTRUMENTAL PIECE, you may want to do a few extra things to it besides loop 4 bars for 3 minutes. hearing an artist over the music completely changes the way it is heard.
there is no right or wrong to this issue. it really shouldnt even be an issue. it makes no sense to me why it is even being argued, either for or against.
well, i see it like this:
for one, your examples didnt do much to prove yuor cause. i dont think the word "simple" is the right word, i think "plain" is more appropriate. just because the current market sales in a certain way, that does not mean that our views, thoughts and styles should change accordingly. you may prefer to emulate the current industry standards and do what is being done because that is what currently stands... but many of us do not.
as far as the whole issue of "simple" beats versus "complex" beats, well....
its basically the EXACT SAME ISSUE as the "sampling vs i-play-everything-myself" argument.
the answer being, ultimately, this:
you can debate this all day long and critique and give your view, but at the end of the day, there is no definitive answer to it. its a circular question. in the end, you will do you and thats all. thats it. whatever works. beats are always dictated by the producers particular tastes, vision and style in conjunction with the artist they are working with. everyone is different. everyone DOES WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE THATS WHAT THEY DO.
i dont really understand the argument at all. its pointless and fruitless.
there are countless classic songs from both sides of the coin, but the thing is we are judging these beats by them being beats- so a four bar loop all the way through can seem monotonous. if its intent is to be a song THAT IS AN INSTRUMENTAL PIECE, you may want to do a few extra things to it besides loop 4 bars for 3 minutes. hearing an artist over the music completely changes the way it is heard.
there is no right or wrong to this issue. it really shouldnt even be an issue. it makes no sense to me why it is even being argued, either for or against.
yo Yo Yo COLD TRUTH HOLD UP!!!!!
Who was arguing? U feel 1 way and I feel anutha. I never said simple or plain in ma statement....I was referring to the fact that a couple trax I had personally were called "loops" and repetitive....What song isnt?....This really sticks out....if u think something is pointless or fruitless I didn't personally ask CT for his/her opinion.....I also understand that I choose to do what i choose to do thanks for pointing that out.....I would also like to know where simple and plain came from? R u referring to ma music? Tha thing that I stated was that people r having a problem with loops not all that other jazz u were talking about....Ma point was tha people who were referring to the loops were just doing dropouts, not that I need to explain myself again. A loop is a loop regardless....nobody @ this point is realizing tha true potential of tha songs w/o lyrics......This is a great spot to get feedback on ur'e music....Please don't try and explain anything 2 me about music.....U can't....If u don't have anything betta 2 add besides pointless and fruitless maybe this isn't tha thread 4 u......moderator or not.... Have u even heard ma trax?please no need to help me with ma music...I pretty much got that down......
Who was arguing? U feel 1 way and I feel anutha. I never said simple or plain in ma statement....I was referring to the fact that a couple trax I had personally were called "loops" and repetitive....What song isnt?....This really sticks out....if u think something is pointless or fruitless I didn't personally ask CT for his/her opinion.....I also understand that I choose to do what i choose to do thanks for pointing that out.....I would also like to know where simple and plain came from? R u referring to ma music? Tha thing that I stated was that people r having a problem with loops not all that other jazz u were talking about....Ma point was tha people who were referring to the loops were just doing dropouts, not that I need to explain myself again. A loop is a loop regardless....nobody @ this point is realizing tha true potential of tha songs w/o lyrics......This is a great spot to get feedback on ur'e music....Please don't try and explain anything 2 me about music.....U can't....If u don't have anything betta 2 add besides pointless and fruitless maybe this isn't tha thread 4 u......moderator or not.... Have u even heard ma trax?please no need to help me with ma music...I pretty much got that down......
MarkN
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 55
Yea i kind of agree with you on this i mean a lot of hip hop is and always has been very basic in its composition and the sounds/samples used ! Originally the music woznt a focus at all it woz just a backdrop for the emcees to rap too ! but it has developed and theres no reason why it should stop developing !
I think evryone brings there own stuff to the table for example the jay dub and classic battle that just went down, classics stuff is normal a lot more complex than you average beat the main reason being that he is talented enough to be able to do the stuff he does im not and probably 99% of the mainstream hip hop producers aren't either, dr dre the neptunes, kanye west, just blaze most of the produce off of instincts for sounds good not wot it musically correct !
However there are some people who just make plain boring beats and then defend it by saying well it only has to be a four bar loop for a emcee to rap over ! There are still good and bad four bar loops !
Another valid point is that if a producer entered 'gridin' in the beat this comp they would probably get laughed at a LOT ! Which goes to show how much having a rapper on your beat can do, how much having your stuff proffesionaly mastered can do but also public image, neptunes were the hot producers of the moment they already had everybody in the hand so they could release wot they want once you get to a certain level you can get away with stuff a lesse known producer couldnt ! For example the neptunes could have sold the grindin beat for 50k but rapper would pay joe bloggs £50 for the same beat because hes not known !
Finally if A&R are listening to your beats they have to hear something strait away they are not gonna be thinking this is average it will be great with rappers and mastering and promtion and wot not they want to hear sumthing leap out at them thats already hot that wont need as much backing !
I think evryone brings there own stuff to the table for example the jay dub and classic battle that just went down, classics stuff is normal a lot more complex than you average beat the main reason being that he is talented enough to be able to do the stuff he does im not and probably 99% of the mainstream hip hop producers aren't either, dr dre the neptunes, kanye west, just blaze most of the produce off of instincts for sounds good not wot it musically correct !
However there are some people who just make plain boring beats and then defend it by saying well it only has to be a four bar loop for a emcee to rap over ! There are still good and bad four bar loops !
Another valid point is that if a producer entered 'gridin' in the beat this comp they would probably get laughed at a LOT ! Which goes to show how much having a rapper on your beat can do, how much having your stuff proffesionaly mastered can do but also public image, neptunes were the hot producers of the moment they already had everybody in the hand so they could release wot they want once you get to a certain level you can get away with stuff a lesse known producer couldnt ! For example the neptunes could have sold the grindin beat for 50k but rapper would pay joe bloggs £50 for the same beat because hes not known !
Finally if A&R are listening to your beats they have to hear something strait away they are not gonna be thinking this is average it will be great with rappers and mastering and promtion and wot not they want to hear sumthing leap out at them thats already hot that wont need as much backing !
monumental
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 6
i totally agree with you some of my favourite primo beats are two bar loops, that's nuts, but if the sound hot the sounds hot.
bigdmakintrax
BeatKreatoR
DO what you do man.....take that 4 bar loop to another level and chop it and add another drum pattern under it etc....muting is so deceiving and a changeup of the kick or snare breaks that monotany........you gonna get a lot of feedback on this board...some good, some bad....there are so many sets of ears that have their own impression of 1......what is hot 2.......what is really a good beat 3.....what defines a well produced track ......so with that the other things to remember is there is no platinum producers on here.....at least right now I don't think....do what you do man....4get about feeling like you have to do something a certain way.....but at the same time take in what is said as far as feedback and maybe you will find yourself becoming versatile enuff to make 8 or 16 bar loops LOL....and fool ears into thinking they aren't a loop....99.9999999% of songs form a pattern for the verse, hook intro and eventually Repeat, Thus forming a loop....so where you decide to cut it off is up to you and whether 4 bar loops are good, a mark of production skillz is balony I do very highly orchestrated tracks and I can turn out a good ol loop beat and most lazy producers I know love a 4 bar loop that they can just mute, drop in an occasional extra snare or break and repeat......bottom line....Does that shidd make your head bob or make an MC instantly start spittin????.....DO WHAT YOU DO....grow and continue to step up your Skillz and make some records
yo Yo Yo
Yeah I feel ya.....the track that I was reffering 2 was a track I called dirty girl on ma page.....On tha slick Im an semi established producer who has already been offered a recording contract 250,000 split between me and 2 others 2 yrs ago as a rapper/ producer and Im also on tha registry 4 producers @ Universal records ......I already got joints on tha radio here in SC, on 107.3 (That Fie) played by dj scientist..... IE...Young gunz, Bubba Sparxx.....I felt like tha comment was made due to someones frustration with their own music......It was the second time I got feedback on it.....First 1t was Oh my God this iz hot.....Next time it's just a loop......So I was trying to bring up tha point that a loop is a loop regardless...to hear any beat w/o vocals is just going to be a loop....What else can u do with 4 bars and a minute 24?
Yeah I feel ya.....the track that I was reffering 2 was a track I called dirty girl on ma page.....On tha slick Im an semi established producer who has already been offered a recording contract 250,000 split between me and 2 others 2 yrs ago as a rapper/ producer and Im also on tha registry 4 producers @ Universal records ......I already got joints on tha radio here in SC, on 107.3 (That Fie) played by dj scientist..... IE...Young gunz, Bubba Sparxx.....I felt like tha comment was made due to someones frustration with their own music......It was the second time I got feedback on it.....First 1t was Oh my God this iz hot.....Next time it's just a loop......So I was trying to bring up tha point that a loop is a loop regardless...to hear any beat w/o vocals is just going to be a loop....What else can u do with 4 bars and a minute 24?
Like D said: DO WHAT U DO!
N.A.R. - If yer content with yer joints fuck EVERYONE ELSE OPINIONS MAN!....Besides, sounds to me like yer becoming, or already have become a quite established producer in tha game, so jus keep doin what u do like D said...Fools are always gonna have opinions, thats tha nature of tha industry that im leanrning...Im sure that yer hip to that, but i figure its worth jus reminding....
Steez
ps...Congradualtions on tha radio joints u got playin!,..Thats cool shit bro.
N.A.R. - If yer content with yer joints fuck EVERYONE ELSE OPINIONS MAN!....Besides, sounds to me like yer becoming, or already have become a quite established producer in tha game, so jus keep doin what u do like D said...Fools are always gonna have opinions, thats tha nature of tha industry that im leanrning...Im sure that yer hip to that, but i figure its worth jus reminding....
Steez
ps...Congradualtions on tha radio joints u got playin!,..Thats cool shit bro.
T
The Bastard
Guest
2-4 Loops Are Hot,thats Hip Hop
classic’s humble opinion(dont want another jaydub situation LOL)
shit man who is against 4 or 8 bat loops!! lol
I think It would be silly to do so. Most modern music today, pop, rock, jazz,reggea R&B,country etc.... is based on 4,8,or 16 bar loops in 2/4 ,3/4 or 4/4 time. My beats are no different. Every single beat i have made has been a 4 ,8 or 16 bar loop.
Lets get the the root of this discussion (good topic by the way)
Its not the loop thats the problem,its what people do inside of the loop that matters. It’s the way you approach the loop. An ex dj and an old pianist are gonna take 2 totally different approaches to that same 4/4 loop. And they both have the potiental to be hot!!
NAR I think that a lot of the people here are not tired of loops,(that would be like film makers saying they are tired of cameras) I think that people are tired of hearing the same stangnet loop over and over with no progression or change ups. When u hear me talk about looping or a song being a “loop” that’s what im referring to. And your right adding vocals to a beat gives it a totally new demintion
Personally I think the possibities are endless. There is a lot u can do and a lot has been done. Just look at all the types of music that we have today. Its all looped based.
Like deuce said it all comes down to YOU. What I may think is a boring loop and artist may think is hot!! Look at little johns shit. I cant help but jump up to his shit but he literally has 4 tracks and a 2 bar loop. But its hot!!!
Good luck with your records stuff
Class…
shit man who is against 4 or 8 bat loops!! lol
I think It would be silly to do so. Most modern music today, pop, rock, jazz,reggea R&B,country etc.... is based on 4,8,or 16 bar loops in 2/4 ,3/4 or 4/4 time. My beats are no different. Every single beat i have made has been a 4 ,8 or 16 bar loop.
Lets get the the root of this discussion (good topic by the way)
Its not the loop thats the problem,its what people do inside of the loop that matters. It’s the way you approach the loop. An ex dj and an old pianist are gonna take 2 totally different approaches to that same 4/4 loop. And they both have the potiental to be hot!!
NAR I think that a lot of the people here are not tired of loops,(that would be like film makers saying they are tired of cameras) I think that people are tired of hearing the same stangnet loop over and over with no progression or change ups. When u hear me talk about looping or a song being a “loop” that’s what im referring to. And your right adding vocals to a beat gives it a totally new demintion
N.A.R. said:
Personally I think the possibities are endless. There is a lot u can do and a lot has been done. Just look at all the types of music that we have today. Its all looped based.
Like deuce said it all comes down to YOU. What I may think is a boring loop and artist may think is hot!! Look at little johns shit. I cant help but jump up to his shit but he literally has 4 tracks and a 2 bar loop. But its hot!!!
Good luck with your records stuff
Class…
yo Yo Yo Classic
No doubt....that beat I was reffering to has three different guitars in it backdrops nd strings....I personally stop on a track after having been an emcee, when I feel like I can write to it....Thanks tho
Keep it poppin
OOO and by tha way....I was in the same studio a couple mnths ago where lil John takes his ish in manhattan (with 33hz Outlookmusic.com) with 1 of ma college buddies Trevor Pryce of tha Denver Broncos) owns tha label I (We played @ Clemson)....I saw ur'e studio setup....all his joints are pretty much made with a motif (lil John) as was dirty girl....I saw that u had 1....
No doubt....that beat I was reffering to has three different guitars in it backdrops nd strings....I personally stop on a track after having been an emcee, when I feel like I can write to it....Thanks tho
Keep it poppin
OOO and by tha way....I was in the same studio a couple mnths ago where lil John takes his ish in manhattan (with 33hz Outlookmusic.com) with 1 of ma college buddies Trevor Pryce of tha Denver Broncos) owns tha label I (We played @ Clemson)....I saw ur'e studio setup....all his joints are pretty much made with a motif (lil John) as was dirty girl....I saw that u had 1....
E
Equality 7-2521
Guest
you see..... it doesnt matter how "hot" a beat is. if it loops for four minutes its going to get boring very quickly.
loops are lazy.......and dont do anything for taking Hiphop production to the next level (IMHO)
thats the problem with primo. he practically made loops his whole career. never stepped out of his square. never experimanted and tried to become a better producer.
and thats why i like cats like rjd2 and dj shodow way better
loops are lazy.......and dont do anything for taking Hiphop production to the next level (IMHO)
thats the problem with primo. he practically made loops his whole career. never stepped out of his square. never experimanted and tried to become a better producer.
and thats why i like cats like rjd2 and dj shodow way better
N.A.R. said:
no doubt,
alot can be done with that motif . Ive had it for about a month now and i must say its worth every penney. I havent evenscratched the suface of it. Plus it allows 2 expansion boards!!!!
for me the motif
basically allows the ablitiy to not have to search for qualtity sounds and focus on makeig the actual beat.
class,,,
incogneeto
J.B. LEGACY
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
every song i make is a 4 bar or 8 bar loop....and all i do is add too em...nuttin wrong with it.........i make mc's spit fire........just do what u do and run wit it.......holla
what it all comes down to (IMO) is that ordinary people that listen/buy the music dont really understand what they're hearing. a loop over and over, hell they dont know, they just know the beat is tight. They can bump it or freak dance in the club. thats it. they dont take it apart in their heads like a producer does, to really understand whats going on.
pretty much any other music than rap/hip hop is a different story though.
silas
pretty much any other music than rap/hip hop is a different story though.
silas
i usually use to bar loops. but that's me. it is all about the 2/3rds mark 2/3rds way though your 16 mix it up 2/3rds through the track breakdown. look at premier as a primo example of all is needed is taking away elements and adding cuts to make your beat unboring
QUIT THE HATE SHIT without some repitition it isn't music. RHYTHYM
HIP HOP IS RHYMTHM BASED
QUIT THE HATE SHIT without some repitition it isn't music. RHYTHYM
HIP HOP IS RHYMTHM BASED
T
The Bastard
Guest
Mr. Messenger said:
id have to disagree , some of my favorite beats are like 2-4 bar loops jamz like cappadona milk the cow, biggies who shot ya are a few of my fav beats, a lot of people try to hate and pull the ''dude thats easy'' card usually its because it was sumthin that was so simple yet so HOT they are a little pissed they didnt think of it, thats like hatin on the person who invented the slinky
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