I Dont Understand....

[Haze47]

yo, right, i went to see a couple of good homegrown emccess yesterday, played my shit, which they were feeling, but they said i had too much going on in my beats for an emcee to successfully slay, and they need to be more simple.....

but...

those of you who have known me on here for a while, may remember i used to be an advocate of simple beats, used as a vehicle for the emcee....i got slayed by wings for that comment at the time, and i understand why....

i just cant leave a beat "simple bare" anymore, my head just says, "that is crap, how long did that take you 10mins?"

but apparantly i shouldnt be thinking that, or should i?

any advice?

 

[bigdmakintrax]

I have been making my tracks not just based on what I hear musically or what I feel should be in them, I make a lot of joints based on having already worked through a concept with an MC and having worked with at least 50-100 MC's over the last 5 years making tracks......you find out likes, dislikes etc...thats why I view what I do as an MC based producer, not just making tracks for instrumental enjoyment but for fully artist ready and mc worthy works.....start listening to instrumentals and then listen to the full song with the mc on it, I am talking known songs to get ideas....that will help you, listen to MC's that have their side of the house locked, know their delivery, you should also be good enuff as a producer to correct or help and MC out with what they do on your track that much is just a skill as putting your beat down.....but its good to see you are working with some MC's that I applaud you for, you will learn a lot more of what you need to do with your tracks and grow........make your beat how you want though.....track the beat...I track every beat I make, so I can always drop parts or mute things that wont be necessary for the MC.....also that leaves the option of adding to your track later on too.....dont be lazy, always multitrack your songs every MC wont feel what you did on a track every time, or they wont like the sounds you use sometimes so it will be necessary to sometimes go back and rebuild your song...

 

[sYgMa]

I'm also an advocate for simple beats... but I think that some beats are sometimes too complicated and are meant to be listened as imstrumentals only. Then again, some MC's are not versatile enough to spit on complex beats. That's them... not the beat...

Actually, I try to do both simple and complex beats, but I like simple beat better, so I can work on individual sounds more...

 

[RigorMortis]

like sygma, there is a lot of mcs out there, and some prefer simple beats others prefer more versatile beats. If you like those mcs, find out what part of your stuff they like and use it. But dont make a track over if you already know you wont be satisfied yourself with the adjustments, unless you are purely working for mcs. To me it is, i also got to like the beat myself so if the mc wants changes i am totally not down with, it is his love. I wont make things that i cant enjoy myself.

 

[Haze47]

yo, word up guys, thanks....

 

[StressWon]

yo, word up guys, thanks....

i love ya tracks,,,if these so called emcees says there's yoo much goin on and they cant flow to them, then maybe these arent the people that need to get on the track. I'm sayin, when we get to our venture kid, i have like what 12 joints of yours,,,all are fresh and I dont foresee any problems,,,maybe they just suck.

 

[sYgMa]

^^^^I second that!

 

[Shonsteez]

What feels good, and is appropriate for the emcees flow is RIGHT in my opinion.....People get to easily hung up on what a standard is i think, and then if u dont follow it, yer shit is crap, i disagree tho - Do YOU and nothing else....Im not sayin, dont expand and learn new things and get better at yer craft, but it dont hurt nothin but the music when yer tryin to fill someone elses ideals of what a proper beat is.


STEEZ

 

[Formant024]

Why the fug are you bothered, you do what you do best and damn given time... I mean, you wont be telling him how to spit best or what subject is better to rap about.

 

[MarkN]

i mean theres no fixed measurement to how simple a track should be some tracks work well with lots of stuff going on at the same time some tracks are a beat and a loop and they are some of the best ! its how the end product sounds that matters at the end of the day who really gives a fuck about how you get there its the finished product people should be judging, if they like the tracks then they will rap to them if not then it them with the problem !

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Man I like the responses, how many of you have rEally, truly worked on records with mc's from start to finish...and how many....a lot of what is being said makes sense and then there is some that is remote from own experiences dealing with rappers....not just from where I am from but some other areas too....I mean there is the ocassional......1 take rapper that stabs the song on the first go and loves it but then you got cats that if you are in some type of money agreement you have to finish the song no matter how painful....or how many takes...and if they paying you have to be the businessman and finish the job.....and yes if you know anything about delivery sometimes coach them thru the song...yes it happens in reality folks......and have you ever built a song around an MC's work?..... you somewhat have to go by what they want to do with the song if you in a business type of situation like I do find myself in , if they dont like a sound or if they want some little different arrangement and these are MC's with varying degrees of experience and trust me I have sat in with a lot more producers in live sessions too so its not a cut and dry as what I am hearing compared to the realities and sometimes headaches that can come with production.......like said track your beat...every mC will not feel your beats from start to finish every single time sometimes it might be them but sometimes there might be a tiny part of the song that may either need to be muted, dropped out or taken out entirely.....

 

[RigorMortis]

Hoe many emcees finished records from start to beginning? Like i said if you are doing shit money and contract wise then do what you promised. If you are just working with some mcs to build, you get to decide to. It wont work anyways if you dont like what you are doing... Dont mean i am right, dont mean your right.
Choose your direction, and work towards your goal. So Corruption decide why you are in for it, then things will be less complicated.

 

[Shonsteez]

Ive only done about 5 official cash deals where i had to create around the emcees flow, but i totally agree that you have to be able to be a bizness man about it, and also be flexible and make changes accordingly, or for that matter, scrap the whole thing and start again....

 

[bigdmakintrax]

you have to be able to be a bizness man about it, ...

And sometimes a psychologist, hand holder and coach......not unless you just sell a beat and forget about it.....LOL

 

[Shonsteez]

^^^^Totally Agreed^^^^

Thats part of the profession.

 

[Beatz 101]

kats be sayin' some of my beats is too complicated at times. too hectic wit the drums n' percussions n' shit.

i hate simple beats most of the time. it just seems too easy for me, even when its already hot.

im always feelin' like there's anotha way i can twist it, ya know.

thats a problem i got. alotta the beats i think is too simple or incomplete, niggas be vibin' to it like it was meant to be.

and the ones i be feelin' where the drums is doin' acrobats, it be goin' over peoples heads.

 

[Shonsteez]

That often happens to me too tho 101, and what i do tho is just let it ride if the emcee seems to dig it the way it is....If it works, it works....

 

[Sinister]

ya man, i've received the same complaint from a lot of rappers. It's not even necessarily the commentary is 'too complex'. Once and awhile cats will finish listening to the beat and be like 'well you know, this is really hard to rap to'. It kind of bothers me, although I don't ever rap publiclly, I try to freestyle in my head some biggie lyrics i have memorized or something to make sure it is possible. It kinda pisses me off, I feel almost like I could rap to the beats if I had the voice talent, but you definately need to work with the rapper to get the best beat to them. Luckilly, the project I'm working on right now will have plenty of stand-alone instrumental beats, so I can use some of these to fill those slots.
One suggestion that worked for me is to minimize your beat down to the just the bass line and drum loop, or even just the drums. The rapper can do whatever they want over that, there's no excuse for a plain drum loop being too complex. Once they have the vocals done for that bpm and those drums, you can fit the main samples and shit back on. It'll all be timed up right so it shouldn't be a problem. The problem with this of course is the vocalist can't mesh as well the lyrics to the beat.

 

[Anubis-Ra]

I guess the problem I have is that I try to put too many ideas into one song, instead of just leveling things out. One thing would sound better in another track or whatever. Just tailor some beats around the emcee's style, or they could work on their lyrical ability.

 

[Shonsteez]

I guess the problem I have is that I try to put too many ideas into one song

Word. And thats normal....I think the key tho is to try and eliminate the stuff that may not be as important to the track as the rest of the other parts....That way you end up widdling it down to the essential parts that are most important to the track. Ive always noticed that relieving some parts from the beat often allows more space for the emcees vocals, and thats essential.