I Don't Know, You Tell Me?

[dacalion]

First, understand that I'm being very general here, but even so, you can still see my point. Below is a list of Number 1 RnB albums in 1978 and 2011. I picked 1978 because it was the the peak of RnB and the Disco era was just starting to influence RnB. I picked 2011 because it's the last full year to compare. Also, keep in mind that in 2011 RnB and Hip Hop were 1 genre.

The Golden Era for Hip Hop and even some of todays best samples still come from the 70's. We don't really dig much further back because of the quality of the recordings plus the music (in general) was really different in content.

Now take a look at 2011 (33yrs later...). I see 2 things that really stick out...

1. Albums don't stay at number 1 nearly as long as they did in 78.
2. Everything in yellow is either Rap or a crossover of Rap/RnB.

Which leads me to ask...What will Hip Hop Producers be sampling in 2045 (33yrs from 2012)?

 

[wrightboy]

birds....that's why i gotta get ahead of the game now.

 

[H.Quality]

Well for one they could do like RZA, and bring in session musicians, or better yet, learn instruments themselves, although thats unlikely, seeing as producers seem to be getting lazier as time goes on and computer programs get more advanced. By 45 the technology will probably exist to create riffs and melodies straight from the program at the push of a button. Sort of like Riff Machine in FL, but 100x better.

I don't see sampling living that long, as we know it at least. One shots, and interpolations maybe, but taking 2-4 bars of straight audio, chopping it up, and making something from it? nah..

 

[SoberMindedMuzk]

I'm letting you know right now bro. When my music thing starts generating nice cash, I'm gonna want u on the payroll. This is some pretty insightful material right here. You, Fade and Relic get ready to quit yall day jobs.

 

[Fade]

Which leads me to ask...What will Hip Hop Producers be sampling in 2045 (33yrs from 2012)?

I hope not today's music!

You, Fade and Relic get ready to quit yall day jobs.

Yes!

 

[dacalion]

hahaha thanks man, my example is a bit extreme but it's clear that future Hip Hop Producers will be challenged a lot more than we are when it comes to sampling old music. There will be plenty of solutions but very little original material to chop up. More creativity will be a key factor in the success or failure of Hip Hop. Then again, you gotta think of what would Hip Hop be without old RnB samples.

Hip Hop was built on the principle idea of making due with whatever you have. I just hope we haven't gotten too far from those principles that we will kill ourselves.

This reminds me of a "lesson" story I read a long time ago and never forgot...

Short version.

There was a man who raised wolves for their fur and labor. His wolves by nature were hungry, viscous animals straight out of the wild but he loved them and made good money off them so he vowed to never kill them. He took care of the wolves, raised and nurtured them all their lives until one day he decided he could make more money raising sheep and they needed no taming. He decided to let the wolves go and run free. The wolves enjoyed their freedom until they got hungry so they returned to the guys place and started killing his sheep. There wasn't much the guy could do, his ex-wolves were too clever to be trapped and hunting them was almost impossible because the wolves knew his scent and would stay clear.

The guy was loosing so much money, he had to devise a plan. So he killed 1 sheep, took it's blood and soaked old rags until they were dripping wet. Then he took those bloody rags and wrapped them around his sharpest knives and planted them in the ground with the blades pointed up. The wolves came along and smelled the blood and began licking and biting at the rags. As they cut their tongues, they tasted more blood, unknowing that it was their own blood they went even harder until they all killed themselves.

Moral of the story...The guy was a record label and the wolves were street rappers. Think about it. =)

 

[Pug]

There's always going to be shit to sample, always! I think the challenge will be to use less R&B/Soul records that people have been pillaging since the beginning of time (not that there's anything wrong with that). The breadth of music out there to sample is just ridiculous. It will all depend on the laziness of future producers really.

 

[dacalion]

I agree that there will always be music to sample and I agree that the challenge will be to use less RnB/Soul BUT that's where the problem lies...a huge part of traditional Hip Hop IS sampled RnB/Soul...taking the RnB/Soul out of hip hop is changing the genre. Yes, it's an extreme statement to say that we're running out of RnB/Soul material but it's not so extreme when you consider that there are no bands...there are plenty of musicians but the majority of them are 'studio' musicians with different styles and techniques...think about it...check this link of the most sampled songs, check the artist and year of the songs.

http://www.kevinnottingham.com/2009/03/16/top-10-most-sampled-songs-in-hip-hop/

Again, I'm being very general but the trend is right in our faces. James Brown, James Coltrane, and some really good but rare groups are the artist that brought the RnB/Soul that diggers search for today.

 

[Pug]

True Dac! I think the thing about those old R&B records is that hip-hop guys would always just sample one or two songs on the albums, but that leaves a plethora of other options. Like you said, it's just a matter of being creative with your samples.

 

[wrightboy]

we will NEVER run out of r&b/soul records to sample. the key is to sample them differently. just like with the sample flips on this board, everyone has a different take on the same song. so as long as creativity exists, there will be material. hell, we've lasted for (in dac's example) 33 years, sampling ~10 yrs worth of music ('70 - '80), and we're still going. i'm not worried.

 

[slik da relic]

theyll be doin wat i do now.. samplin wateva.. and makin a beat out of it.

only THEN, will i be recognized.. ffft:

da relic

 

[dacalion]

Great viewpoints!

 

[Fade]

That's the thing - it's all how you sample it. If you're saying that we're running out of samples in the traditional rap sampling sense then ya maybe. But if you sample it differently than the norm then you'll never run out of music.

I've sampled the same record a few times but just different parts of the song or whatever. I also don't just take whole sections out like Puffy, instead I'll take a small section and group that with something from another song on that album or an entirely different song altogether. We're never gonna run out!

 

[drex]

We wanna hear what our parents played when we was kids.

There will always be good music from when we were kids whatever generation we happen to be in, feel me?
And there will always be deeper samples and newer flips, look at what Feedme did with that Ella joint, he flipped it quite nicely...
Idk, you presented some compelling information, but I dare suggest it is misleadingly incomplete.
Have you considered hiphop hits that were not sample based? Or even those that were sample based but did not sample previous hits?
Also hip hop is folk music, right? And folk music is about the vibe of the people of the time.
maybe in the future we'll be ready to consider luther and winbush, and other eighties nineties soul artists...
Maybe we'll be on some rock and roll sampling isht, one thng I do know for sure, is we will always dig a deeper cavern for underground hiphop so no matter whatv genre billboard or soundscan wants to lump us into, the real heads will always know where to find real hiphop...
I predict the nineties sound will never die.

Despite howwhat I said may have sounded, you did some good work presenting the connections you found...


Hey Sober, if you need someone to pass out fliers, let me know bro! I gotchu!

 

[dacalion]

This is what I'm saying...

There will be plenty of solutions but very little original material to chop up.

Common sense says "as long as there is music, there will be something to sample", that's a given imo...R&B started in the late 40's but we don't generally go that far back (especially for breaks or instruments, maybe a vocal at most) but for the most part 40's - mid and late 50's is irrelevant for sampling.

Personally, I do believe the same thing will happen in the future...at some point the 70's will be irrelevant for sampling, the music will always be there but the interest won't, just like the interest isn't there for the 40's, 50's and part of the 60's. The difference is we have an abundance of material to sample from that's still relevant to us...judging from the 2011 chart, future producers will have much less to choose from. =) Thats just my personal belief but I hope I'm wrong. =)

 

[drex]

I'm ready.

 

[SoberMindedMuzk]

Hey Sober, if you need someone to pass out fliers, let me know bro! I gotchu!

Need more like u od. Need more like you!

 

[Relic]

Everyone will be sampling old ass game show music. Chopping it up.
Like I do .