How many tracks?

[OGBama]

Y'all need to ask how much is too much, I like minimalism.

 

[Iron Keys]

Y'all need to ask how much is too much, I like minimalism.

Bong bong.

Less is more

If you can learn the meaning to this phrase it'll improve your stuff.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Bong bong.

Less is more

If you can learn the meaning to this phrase it'll improve your stuff.

its true, but to be honest in my progression and where I am now, I think trying to fit too much in allowed me to get a better understanding of how to make a lot sound like a little, how to pan things so that they all fit cohesively into the limited space you have. But Ive always wanted to master the composition side of things, usually around a very basic sampled loop, or with no samples at all. To me sampling is a slightly different discipline in that the sample does a lot of the work so you dont have to, and if you go overboard composing and layering over samples it quickly gets messy.
Just some food for thought from my own personal experience.

 

[Fade]

It's all subjective but I just see it as you use what you need. When I first used a DAW I was blown away by how many tracks it was capable of compared to what I was used to in the analog age. So my mentality is just because you CAN do that many tracks, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

 

[Iron Keys]

just because you CAN do that many tracks, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I was originally gonna say this a couple pages back.

It's all subjective but I just see it as you use what you need.

This is a key idea in less is more. What is it you're trying to say/do.

For me, when making a track, it's about that key idea. Everything should contribute to that key idea. If it doesn't, rid it.

I think people get caught up in "this sounds cool i'll keep/add it". Just 'cause something sounds cool, don't mean it should be in the record. For example, your track might be built around a solid groove, you make a cool melody, it sounds really cool, but if you listen, it takes away from the groove. In which case you should bin it(save it somewhere for another day), and keep working new sounds or melodies to find one that works with the groove (or key idea of the track).

 

[Iron Keys]

its true, but to be honest in my progression and where I am now, I think trying to fit too much in allowed me to get a better understanding of how to make a lot sound like a little, how to pan things so that they all fit cohesively into the limited space you have. But Ive always wanted to master the composition side of things, usually around a very basic sampled loop, or with no samples at all. To me sampling is a slightly different discipline in that the sample does a lot of the work so you dont have to, and if you go overboard composing and layering over samples it quickly gets messy.
Just some food for thought from my own personal experience.

It's funny 'cause for me it's the opposite.

That's something I wanted to mention before. Minimalist / Maximumist(?) can be opinion or people's personal philosophies. So no right or wrong, and completely contrasting.
I definitely appreciate and agree how many elements means figuring out how to mix, cut, etc to get everything its own space,and like I said, interesting for me its the opposite;

For me with the minimalism, it's how do I make something that's relatively empty "feel full"? I find it makes you really pay attention to how, time, rhythm, sound selection work.

It's a weird thing where you could have a simple kick snare and hi hat pattern, but depending on what sounds you use, it can sound empty and lifeless or 'complete' and with energy. Loads of factors, like the characteristics of the sounds, how the kick works with the snare etc. Of course this is important in any composition whether very busy or minimal, but for me I find minimalism really emphasizes this whereas sometimes if you have lots going on you can mask this element.

fascinating

 

[2GooD Productions]

It's funny 'cause for me it's the opposite.

That's something I wanted to mention before. Minimalist / Maximumist(?) can be opinion or people's personal philosophies. So no right or wrong, and completely contrasting.
I definitely appreciate and agree how many elements means figuring out how to mix, cut, etc to get everything its own space,and like I said, interesting for me its the opposite;

For me with the minimalism, it's how do I make something that's relatively empty "feel full"? I find it makes you really pay attention to how, time, rhythm, sound selection work.

It's a weird thing where you could have a simple kick snare and hi hat pattern, but depending on what sounds you use, it can sound empty and lifeless or 'complete' and with energy. Loads of factors, like the characteristics of the sounds, how the kick works with the snare etc. Of course this is important in any composition whether very busy or minimal, but for me I find minimalism really emphasizes this whereas sometimes if you have lots going on you can mask this element.

fascinating

Thats the exact thing that makes Diamond D my favorite hip hop producer.

 

[Fade]

One of the first things I learned in the studio was "less is more" and it's just stuck with me since. Another was "subtract rather than add", implying that by adding more sounds it will muddy the track, which forces you to do other stuff like EQ to level everything out.

There's only so much space in the mix and it doesn't make sense to keep adding unless you feel the need to, but like @Iron Keys mentioned, it's the intent and about what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[DJ Wax-Turtle]

I'm def a maximalist and need at least 3 to 5 days to finish a track.

 

[YannFer]

I'm def a maximalist and need at least 3 to 5 days to finish a track.

...here goes another definition of a "track"... But yeah, I'm really the same.

My conclusion is that I'm not a weird animal using so many tracks in my beats, so I'm a keep doing it.

Less being more, I still need to work on the arrangement side of things.

 

[DJ Wax-Turtle]

Id call the main driving melody of a song to be the melody, the other stuff I would call fills and accompaniment. Thats why I end up with so many tracks because I can have a lot of instruments that might just have one note that only appears once, or a little fill that only comes at the end of an 8 or 16. Now I see what you meant though.

Exactly, but you do need to EQ all your tracks really well. A lot of low-cutting especially.
And panning things to the left gives a little more space for something else on the right.
Like said, something might sound cool on its own but it must work along the groove.

 

[thedreampolice]

Some songs need two tracks some need 200, it just depends on the song.

 

[Fade]

Some songs need two tracks some need 200, it just depends on the song.

200 is way too much. I'm just thinking back to when actual hardware was used and a 96 track console was overkill, most were 48. Sure some tracks were bounced but still, 200 is crazy talk.

 

[YannFer]

200 is way too much. I'm just thinking back to when actual hardware was used and a 96 track console was overkill, most were 48. Sure some tracks were bounced but still, 200 is crazy talk.

Agreed. Unless we're talking 20 minutes psychadelic era prog-rock stuff with several songs in the song...
But if we talking hip-hop, you can probably ditch 150 tracks and keep "only" 50 and 99% of the listeners will not hear a difference.

 

[2GooD Productions]

200 is way too much. I'm just thinking back to when actual hardware was used and a 96 track console was overkill, most were 48. Sure some tracks were bounced but still, 200 is crazy talk.

yeah I agree, when I get to 45 my computer really starts to struggle

 

[Fade]

But if we talking hip-hop, you can probably ditch 150 tracks and keep "only" 50 and 99% of the listeners will not hear a difference.

That's a very good point. Will the listener hear a difference? No. The listener just want to hear some good music, that's all.

@thedreampolice are you talking about non-rap music? I can see that many for other forms of music but even then that's a lot.

I mean really, take away the whole DAW aspect and ask yourself if you were only using analog gear, would you need 200 tracks? So the DAW allows you to have 200, meaning you don't need to but you can.

 

[2GooD Productions]

That's a very good point. Will the listener hear a difference? No. The listener just want to hear some good music, that's all.

@thedreampolice are you talking about non-rap music? I can see that many for other forms of music but even then that's a lot.

I mean really, take away the whole DAW aspect and ask yourself if you were only using analog gear, would you need 200 tracks? So the DAW allows you to have 200, meaning you don't need to but you can.

When you are composing for a full orchestra the tracks can start to rack up, especially if you have each instrument as a solo instrument and not an ensemble. That would be a bit extreme though, when you can have ensembles of three or four instruments on one track

 

[Fade]

When you are composing for a full orchestra the tracks can start to rack up, especially if you have each instrument as a solo instrument and not an ensemble. That would be a bit extreme though, when you can have ensembles of three or four instruments on one track

Oh for sure, an orchestra but I would imagine they'd have to mic up a few instruments together like you said. Even then, imagine being the engineer trying to mix 200 orchestra tracks!?!?

 

[2GooD Productions]

Oh for sure, an orchestra but I would imagine they'd have to mic up a few instruments together like you said. Even then, imagine being the engineer trying to mix 200 orchestra tracks!?!?

you would have to do it in stages, like group them into ensemble busses, then mix the busses like stems

 

[Fade]

you would have to do it in stages, like group them into ensemble busses, then mix the busses like stems

That would drive me mad. What's the biggest console anyway? Has it ever gone past 96?