HIP HOP! what is it to you?

[DJ Reflex]

ok i wanted to open this thread to uncover just what people feel about the whole "hip hop" culture and discuss openly the guide that defines it and what it is to them. it started with this post i just posted in another topic and immediatly decided points 4 and 4 were worthy of further discussion:
OK listen up assholes and by that i mean all of you! i cam to this a lil late but heres what i think of this debate!
1. im very sad about this debate because in the past illmuzik heads cud agree to disagree and leave it but now ur letting this boil into a debate id expect to find on some other shitty website!
2. Jay-z used to be underground and now that he's mainstream yall dont like him! the fuck is the point in even starting to get into the music business if u aint in it to be succesful.
3 WHAT IS UNDERGROUND TODAY WILL ONE DAY BE MAINSTREAM
4. I live in Scotland in the middle of the countryside and am surrounded by cows and sheep! i go to school in the city and its far from ghetto! i attend a private school and my parents are relatively well off. to top it all i have a music studio in my garden and im only 16! I AM HIP HOP. i am because i say i am! i feel it, i know it, i love it, i make it, and i live it! its in the way i dress the language i use despite my rather well pronounced scottish accent! im not a wanna be gangsta! and i just do what i like! i own no bling! i wear a white tee-shirt and a pair of jeans and feel happy! i am a practicing catholic and have never smoked weed or even a cigarette! i drink on occasion but never for the sake of gettin pissed! I AM HIP HOP! no one has the right to tell me that im not cos i dont live in the bronx or harlem or cos i aint got bling or cos i aint black or cos i got longish hair or cos i aint drinving a caddy and cos i aint gotta hustle! hell i got many friends in the states! i have mates in the bronx and harlem and they feel just as sick about this as i do!
3. the blueprint is a gud album if 1 person likes it! there may be other better rappers who are underground (eg Pete Miser) but if 1 person feels it Jay's done his job!
4. We are all hip hop regardless of who we are! so remember this post people and shake hands and agree to disagree and say "i disagree entirely with what you say but i will defend to the end ur right to say it!"


Ok what are yalls views? (and im not meaning the four pillars! lol)

 

[Equality 7-2521]

1. didnt notice. i thought it was all chill.

2. depends what you define as success. to some it may be making millions. to others it may be having fun.........could even be both. and for the record i am one of those who hate jay z for selling out. twas weak.

3. no it wont. underground is made up of too wide an array of vibes and too complex subject matter for the masses. the mainstream need simplicity and catchiness. most underground Hiphop artists will die poor.

4. word up. you tell em soldier. seriously though, dont even worry about tools who say shit like that. their ignorance makes their opinion void anyway.

3. if you say so man. who is this Pete fella?

4. i disagree with some of what you say but will defend to the end your right to say it as long as you do the same.



Hiphop to me is the original message of Hiphop, which essentially, is peace and elevation.

Peace.

 

[DJ Excellence]

A friend of mine used to say :

"Rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live" haha ....

 

[classic]

4. You get mad props for that and I respect your honestly. Most cats try to be somethinbg there not

BUT…. I willl say this, Hip hop was started by black Americans in the innercity. So where the ever African American culture goes that’s where hip hop is going to go.
Im not trying to pull a race card or anything. That’s just how it is.
Basically the ghetto and black American culture is always going to be the CNN for hip hop. Casue that’s its roots and its home.

There is room for everyone though and keep doing u man.


Classs…

 

[Formant024]

I think that's a conservative perspective on the hiphop by now, but Im not disagreeing. If you would have said this 20 years ago I would've completly agreed to what you say. You can purify hiphop and look solely on the roots, but the fact is that other ethnic groups blended in or established a subgenre within the genre of hiphop, shortly after the african americans started out. Hiphop anno 2004 is a global culture, it's not just black except for what you'd find in the US charts ( besides the occasional white rapper ). We have the same rap artists in the European/National Charts, but different ethnic hiphop groups have appeared since a year or 2. Half of it is crap, what am I saying...99% of it is crap but it's a trend that'll go permanent and wil develop in time. And Im just talking Europe here.

To a certain extend, Im also happy that hiphop can be about more than the ghetto and the black american culture, no disrespect but there to more to life. I also find dutch wiggers acting gangsta as if they live the projects, to be complete morons. We have no ghetto's here, but we do have hiphop.

Besides the US, France and Germany are the worlds biggest hiphop consumers, think about that...

 

[classic]

You make some good points format, most of em I agree with. Im not saying there is not room for other cultures and ethnicities. I think that’s fine(though sometimes I wonder if they can really understand the context of hip hop culture).

Im not denying that most of the consumers of hip hop today are non-black. Hell when i went to london i had dudes telling me about cats from my neightbrohood(tampa tony, kia)

What I’m saying is the Inner city Black America will dictate the trends and direction of hip hop and there will be a trickle down effect throughout the rest of the hip hop world. Its always been like that. I guarantee if guys in the hood start sampling polka music(somebody should try that) 2 years later in India and Swisserland there will be a high demand for polka records from hip hop heads.

When I traveled to Europe in January I had a chance to see this in full effect

Class…

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Class: i know i always debate with you about this but why must you associate the roots of Hiphop with a particular race rather than in the attitude of Hiphop itself. I think the fact that African Americans were most prominent in the beginning stages of Hiphop is secondary to defining the actual roots of Hiphop.

i feel as though you may be trying to declare that Hiphop is owned (for lack of a better word) by African Americans. I get this impression from wording such as "home" and such which you used.

I see it this way. Hiphop is an idea. Nobody can lay claim to it. Not even Afrikka Bambata. Whether you are black, white, yellow, green or purple: as soon as you grasp the idea of Hiphop, it is yours to keep and nobody can take it from you or say that it is more theirs than it is yours.

i agree that the Afican American Hiphopers will have a big influence on Hiphop trends BUT i dont think that they ARE the roots as you seem to make it out to be.

Hiphop will not neccessarily go where African Americans go. If every African American on this planet was wiped out, Hiphop would still thrive. No Doubt.

Hiphop is all in the head and the mind does not care where you came from or what colour your skin is. It simply takes ideas and entertains them.

The roots of Hiphop is in the original idea of Hiphop which is held in the minds of those who entertain the idea.

feel me?

 

[classic]

I feel u on some points , here is what I think

Class: i know i always debate with you about this but why must you associate the roots of Hiphop with a particular race rather than in the attitude of Hiphop itself

Naw i dont assicate it with a race i assoicate it with a culture, Specficilly and aspect of black american culture. If i assocated it with a race i would say that all africans could relate to hip hop which isent true at all.

Equaltity ur way more hip hop than a black dude in ghana!! lol

i feel as though you may be trying to declare that Hiphop is owned (for lack of a better word) by African Americans.

Naw we dont own it at all, but I still think that we are the main engines behind hip hop. If black Americans did disappear there would be a MAJOR void. Honesty I think if that did happened hip hop would evolve to something else. Im in no way claming that we own hip hop culture. Nobody can own and idea. I just believe that African Americans are the forerunners of and trend setters hip hop and will continue to dictate its direction in the future.

I agree that the African American Hiphopers will have a big influence on Hiphop trends BUT i dont think that they ARE the roots as you seem to make it out to be.

The core idea of hip hop is a reflection of black American culture, Of course your gonna have off shoots and people pushing music in different directions. And I think that’s great
(wings for example). But as a stated the culture of hip hop is hevely ingrained in the African American culture , so where that goes hip hop will follow.

Another exaple of this is the blues, Eric Clapton is a great blues guitarist he was great before he even came to America. But in order for him to really understand and take his playing to another level he had to go to the mississippi delta where blues was started.(this is and extreme case). Maybe that will change over time but as of right now that’s how I see it.

class....

FYI im not trying to ruffel anyones feathers of offend em. Im just statin what i think.

 

[DJ Reflex]

This is great the way this is being discussed like a topic round the dinnertable! i think alot of gud points have been made here! i agree that african americans are the roots. but the roots of hip hop are a result of musical genres of many other ethnicitys. another example classic could be rye cooder and the whole beuna vista social club experience of him returning to cuba to explore that genre. but hip hop today is a multi ethnic culture. this can be seen in djing where a large % are white and hispanic and blacks share an equal portion, eg. cut chemist and craze. Blacks (particularily americans) will always be responsible for carrying hip hop. hell look at BET! its very initials and its connection with hip hop! imagine the outrage of a WET!!! White entertainment television! it would be seen as racist yet we look at BET and in programmes such as comic view u regularily see white members of the audience. yet i dont want this to turn into a racial debare. I think up until this point we have estavlished that hip hop is multiethnic and will become even more so but its roots lye with black americans! I think we would all agree with that. PS now that french raps been mentioned its dam amazin! and pete miser is a former member of the five fingers of funk! he's the best mc i reckon! def peep em!

 

[Formant024]

Another exaple of this is the blues, Eric Clapton is a great blues guitarist he was great before he even came to America. But in order for him to really understand and take his playing to another level he had to go to the mississippi delta where blues was started.(this is and extreme case). Maybe that will change over time but as of right now that’s how I see it.

I think that time has already changed, a lot of the genre music founded back then originated from the afro americans but are these days mastered by all nationalities. Maybe not rap in particulair, the rap music that has been created for the sole purpose of being lucrative ( chart material ) is actualy biased/targeted on the black community since they logicaly would sell the most in that customerfield. Therefor other nationalities would never gain the succes because they're not black ( leaving Em out of it ). But this is strictly the US way of the entertainment business. Im not stating you're wrong, but times really have changed.

FYI im not trying to ruffel anyones feathers of offend em. Im just statin what i think.

Dont sweat it, these are prototype debates, you're a real rolemodel by my standards hehe.

 

[StressWon]

Hip Hop is a culture first and foremost. A culture that derived in the inner city African Americans. No Doubt. But this culture was and is on a whole other level because it was found on love and unity. The love of Break Dancin, and DeeJayin, and Rhymin' and the love for the art of Grafitti. This was a movement. WAS. Hip Hop is the culture, Rap is its music. Many people get that twisted. Thats what gets me so mad. Some cats wanna just jump on the bandwagon without knowin history. Hip Hop is more then just a "Black Thing" or "Ghetto Music". It's a universal brotherhood in a sense. But thanks to Corporate America and way too many artists sellin' out...The actual culture IS underground and what is fed to the public through media is a never ending "Cash Cow". No movement. No love. Just the almighty dollar. Whats Hip Hop to me? The 4 Elements that yall know and that I stated above. Rap Music? Thats the music of Hip Hop that started in the inner black communities that expresses feelings, emmotions and tells the stories that the Suburbs had no clue on what was goin on, that has blossomed into a true artform. Underground? These are the cats that won't change there whole artform for money. These are the true artists. And I can do nothin but respect that, because Money makes this world go round. What ya see on TV is a watered down version of the truth.

 

[o-a-ksavage]

Hip hop is to each person what that person wants it to be to them, plain and simple. But African Americans in the American ghettos were the ones who started it and lit the fire behind it and nothing will ever change that no matter how far it spreads. That is why they are the roots. It's like an American speaking French. He may be able to speak it just as well as a French native and take it wherever he wants, but he'll always kwno that if it weren't for France and the French, he would not be able to speak it at all.

 

[The Bastard]

hip hop def was founded by african americans in the ghettos america and i think as long as every remembers that theyll be straight, personally i dont think it matters what race you are as much as where u live demographically,theres just somethings in hip hop that some people will never be able to relate to

 

[Copenhagen]

What I’m saying is the Inner city Black America will dictate the trends and direction of hip hop and there will be a trickle down effect throughout the rest of the hip hop world.

I agree that US artists dictate the trend, as such, but mostly because of the large market and the corporate business that goes on there.

However, I also see that a lot of European cats have not followed the latest/current mainstream trends. They stick to the old boom bap, or develope new European styles.

Anyway, I was disappointed by the other thread too. I've been listening to Rap/Hip-Hop for 16 years, and underground for most of that time. However, being that I listen mostly to the beats and flow, and not as much the words, I must admit that with time I found too large a percentage of the "backpacker" underground to be boring. I still like more mainstream underground artists, like Mos Def, Pharoahe, Gangstarr etc, but also some mainstream stuff.
That's just my personal preference, so to hear that people who like those subgenres of Hip-Hop aren't really Hip-Hop, or know nothing about it, or haven't listened to the right stuff kind of pissed me off.

 

[DJFANTOM]

hip hop def was founded by african americans in the ghettos america and i think as long as every remembers that theyll be straight, personally i dont think it matters what race you are as much as where u live demographically,theres just somethings in hip hop that some people will never be able to relate to

Damn I was gonna say that. Now ill just quote you. Lol

I also wanna say that this must always be rembered. Hip hop is a global thing now and that's good . The problem is the inercity youth don't cherish this thing we started. I don't blame other ethnicitys for this because they just want to be a part of somethin that they feel and like.

If u go to japan they are drenched in hip hop culture. They study it like a college course. In other countries also I'm guessin. My biggest fear is hip hop goin da way of rock and roll. That I mean that rock and roll was invented by and originaly done by blacks whites came in mimicked it learned it from the black musicians and made it famous.


Now if a black man is doin rock he's considered to be doin "white music" by most urban people. Could u imagine years from now a black man rappin and some 1 sayin "u doin white music"


All are welcome to participate in the culture of hip hop as long as the roots of it are preserve
d. And acknowledgement is given to the foundation of it. Any 1 dat says it doesn't matter how or where hip hop started should not participate in it.



Just my $0.2 (2cents)

 

[Formant024]

Read this, I believe its a bit of both.

http://www.openupandsay.com/history.cfm

 

[DJFANTOM]

Damn good article Formant. Dats y I like u u always give the facts and if u don't know them u find them.

I quote from the article " The term rock and roll was actualy a synonym for black rnb music" yes it did have other influences. But the roots of what became popular rock and roll music was derived from black rnb music .

Not to turn this into a race thing. But rrace comes into play in everything @ least in america.

I also wanna make another point..... Every that's "does hiphop" is not hiphop. Its like I can learn the river dance but unless I live in that culture I'm not that culture. dat doesn't mean I'm not a river dancer. U feel me.

Just cause a kid in the middle of kansas some where gets a mpc and starts makin beats don't mean "they're hip hop" it means the make hip hop beats u feel me. And also cause a kid was born and raised in the bronx don't mean he's hip hop either. But he is more hip hop then the kansas kid. Y because hip hop is allaround him. Its his envitonment. U don't even have to rap,produce,dj,break dance etc.. To "be hip hop"
Its somethin we live not study and emulate.

 

[classic]

If u go to japan they are drenched in hip hop culture. They study it like a college course. In other countries also I'm guessin. My biggest fear is hip hop goin da way of rock and roll. That I mean that rock and roll was invented by and originaly done by blacks whites came in mimicked it learned it from the black musicians and made it famous.

Thats cool. But i doubt a japnoise person can really grasp the significanee of 2 pacs lyrics.

I know this sounds kinda racist and i dont intended it to.
But sometimes i really worry if people outside the African american or urban american culture really understand the context of hip hop.

Imagnie me getting real hevey into irish music. I mean i can love it and cheris it but no matter how much i listen to it i doubt i could have the same apperication for it as someone from ireland. Thats becasue it was created for irish people in that context.


Its just strange to go differnt places in the world and seeing people trying to dress, look, and talk like me.

But on the other hand i understand where u guys are coming from too. Casue I myself am a classical pianist and I LOVE classical music just as much as hip hop. I still think that its a little differnt though casue classical music(as well as other types of music) do not have a culture attached to it. You dont have to appericate German culture to understand and appericate am aria by bach. Where as i feel u do have to understand black american culture to really grasp the meaning of 2pac or public emeny.


class...

P.S(again im not trying to offend anyone just stateing my opionion)

 

[DJFANTOM]

Thats cool. But i doubt a japnoise person can really grasp the significanee of 2 pacs lyrics.

I know this sounds kinda racist and i dont intended it to.
But sometimes i really worry if people outside the African american or urban american culture really understand the context of hip hop.

Imagnie me getting real hevey into irish music. I mean i can love it and cheris it but no matter how much i listen to it i doubt i could have the same apperication for it as someone from ireland. Thats becasue it was created for irish people in that context.


Its just strange to go differnt places in the world and seeing people trying to dress, look, and talk like me.

But on the other hand i understand where u guys are coming from too. Casue I myself am a classical pianist and I LOVE classical music just as much as hip hop. I still think that its a little differnt though casue classical music(as well as other types of music) do not have a culture attached to it. You dont have to appericate German culture to understand and appericate am aria by bach. Where as i feel u do have to understand black american culture to really grasp the meaning of 2pac or public emeny.


class...

P.S(again im not trying to offend anyone just stateing my opionion)

I'm not sayin I think a japanese person can grasp 2 pacs lyrice either. If u read my posts I'm agreein with u on every thing u said in ur posts. I'm black too 23 yrs old and born and raised in the ghetto (still live there. Lol)

What I was sayin is that in other countries they study hip hop like a course. Meanin the culture, dress, style , music etc.... And emulate it. I live in brooklyn now. And in fort green brooklyn there's a big emergrnce of asian peeple with dreads livin there. And heavy into hip hop culture.


And like ur part about irish music I made a similiar point in the post I did right b4 urs.
Basicaly me and u are sayin the same thing. My point and view on this is the same as urs.
Hit me on aim some time we can discuss it more.

 

[classic]

I'm not sayin I think a japanese person can grasp 2 pacs lyrice either. If u read my posts I'm agreein with u on every thing u said in ur posts. I'm black too 23 yrs old and born and raised in the ghetto (still live there. Lol)

What I was sayin is that in other countries they study hip hop like a course. Meanin the culture, dress, style , music etc.... And emulate it. I live in brooklyn now. And in fort green brooklyn there's a big emergrnce of asian peeple with dreads livin there. And heavy into hip hop culture.


And like ur part about irish music I made a similiar point in the post I did right b4 urs.
Basicaly me and u are sayin the same thing. My point and view on this is the same as urs.
Hit me on aim some time we can discuss it more.

True that,

I see that you were agreeing with me i was just using that comment as an example. I will try to hit u up later on today on Aim


class..