Hip Hop Dead???

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lilhatedon

none of Y.G.D.B
ill o.g.
I'd say Hip Hop is dead but not for the West Coast or white boy winning
an Oscar reasons that Dawkins stated in his misinformed article
("IS Hip Hop Dead by Walter Dawkins
http://www.blackelectorate.com/articles.asp?ID=848
http://www.topica.com/lists/e-drum).
I think it was killed by it's very own people because they were so
willing to sell
it for profit and discourage it's audience and the future. It reduced
itself
to boasting bullying and the pig and whistle poppyshow assembled in a
theatre
of hate. Hip Hop and it's MC's and all the other clown show performers
became
so entirely unlikable and discouraging it was just a matter of time
before it
suffered a cruel and welcomed passing. The flunkies of Hip Hop refused
to move
forward because they simply wanted the profits and were willing to kill
each
other for it -- and I'm not talking about the scapegoats of the major
labels. The so called "underground" scene was not any better and
sometimes even
more nastier than the major label bosie slaves with their organ grinders
called
DJ's and beatmakers. Hip Hop was just the ultimate Afro-American
shuffle along
and the only reason why (what was once fam) are making such a big
holleration
about the whole thing passing is that, like a tired ol slave's death
(a yes the slave metaphor), it is massa losing his plowbwoy
in the mud of the field (this time the wasteland of faux ghetto streets
and suburbs of America) and Black folk just don't know what'll get them
scrill now.

Maybe the ending of 8 Mile should offer a suggestion to those who wonder
what happened and where to go -- just walk away from the mess and practice
your skills and recite them to and for people who just want to love
music
(all kinds of music), words and audio manipulation. Not for the pimpin
machine of our souls that North American Black people have become and
have
taken every aspect of our creativity to the depths of meanness and
manipulations for a buck. It was a music which could have offered
liberation
but only taught opressed people how to oppress further and to ensure
there was no
feedback make sure it was your own people you victimized. We allowed it
to lose
control over it's own destiny and made the most horrific period in Black
American
music. Where not one thing may be encouraged or loved because it must be
copywrited for the shuffle along show to get major bucks for the ho
market of America -- our kids, our sound, our language, our dance, our
literature our minds -- every aspect is watched over like a
concentration
camp guard by our own and are ready to be sniped if it challenges the
static
quo of the flow sheet and profit margin.

The best of the best in all our arts will rise once there is no money to
made from it anymore.Then the artists and skillz men will be doing it
for love it.
The works will be a way to express ourselves, again ? most likely in
poverty
(thanks to our own greed of the recent past). And so the art forms will
allow tru
new voices, ideas and styles and dump the bullies and jocks who Ho
Hopped all
over the thing claiming it like a gow bwai claims the sandbox. Hip Hop
will
become another style of music with influences and not some industry
ho'in way of life that it never was.

The music is still their (sometimes appearing under another name, most
of it recited and played away from "locked down" venues with bad vibes and
hungry talons)) because it's not about money, egos, labels, nastiness,
race,
chatter, threats, angry raging peoples using struggle to separate each
one from
each to advance a pyramid scam and a corner a market. It's just music
and poetry
and art and the way an individual naively chooses
to express themselves for and about people who care.


peace

Lawrence Ytzhak Braithwaite (aka Lord Patch)
Fernwood/The Hood/New Palestine
An author in North America
1424
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
i'm probably not going to make any friends today....

*ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz.......

"The Death of Hip Hop: A Hypocondriacs Perspective"
-copywrite QD3 entertainment, as sponsored by the Source, Where Hip Hop Lives, Dies, and Sells Crack in the Streets."

look, people, i'm going to say something that may shock you- it may anger you, but i am right. please forgive me for thinking REALISTICLY. but............

HIP HOP IS NOT DEAD FOLKS. what do you think this is, disco? sea monkeys? pet rocks? pogs? it really has taken a turn for the worse, i admit. however, at us step back and look at it from the perspective of THE FACT THAT THINGS CHANGE. i dont like whats on radio or mtv these days. i dont like the young gunz. i think chingy is a fraud. nelly sucks to me. murphy lee? PLEASE. HIP HOP? i cant CONTAIN the laughter.....

but thats just the way it is. you still have a bubbling underground scene that seems to please a lot of "purists". guess what? i'm not def jux guy, i dont like sage francis, i think the jedi mind tricks are ok and that andre 3000 was a little off his rocker this last time around (draculas wedding anyone?). i am a fan of The Score(fugees) and ATLiens and Aquemini (outkast) and Illmatic (i'm not even gonna say the mans name) and Muddy Waters (redman). i am also a fan of Blackstar and The Roots and Common (before he went off HIS rocker this last time.. damn that erika badu...) and Pharoah Monch and Juice and Dilated Peoples. but to say hip hop is dead because i dislike the current, overall product is REDICULOUS. hip hop isnt dead- it may be dead as we wanted it to be, and thats up to us as artists to hold true to our visions of what "real" hip hop is supposed to be... but if thats what you want, heres what you must do:

"True Hip Hop: You Aint REALLY Hip Hop Unless You Do This" (exerpt by Cold Truth, the REAL HIP HOP Know-It-All)- "now what you got to do is, get yourself some turntables, go to a park, and spin the breaks on records that have had the labels scratched off, and get a crowd there. make sure that there are a few b-boys and say things like "a-diggy-diggy-be-bop-a-guess-what-i-be-the-chief-soul-rocka" if you want to do "real" hip hop. oh, and wear lees. tight ones with pumas. and write you name on phone booths with your street number at the end of the first three letters your real first name- i'm JAS460 from now on. i'm takin it back to REAL hip hop. and i dont make beats with an asr or mpc or even an sp 12 or 808- i use only the turntables. originally, they didnt even scratch- that came alil later, so none of that. we're doin this the REAL HIP HOP way. you take these three basic steps, and you are right thre with kool herc getin it on in the park."

if hip hop is dead then dont listen to the music or participate in the many shapes and forms of its elements. matter of fact, leave this forum- and leave all hip hop and related sites alone. its a dead scene, why are you bothering with it?

hip hop as music isnt dead. i still love the art form becasue there have been many jewels dropped that are deserving of my listening attention. just because some of it (ok, damn near all of it these days, for me) doesnt meet our requirements for bein "real" that doesnt invalidate the fact that it is very much alive, whether its driven by money or not. to those that just want to do it "for the love"- which i myself do it mainly for the love of this art form, but WOULDNT do what i do if i didnt think i could collect a check for it at some point- but those of you who truly feel that the money is just evil and destroying it, which by the way isnt the money at all but the people that are DRIVEN by it- as opposed to the gift that has enabled so many to achieve a higher standard of living for themselves and those around them, the countless employees of hip hop as an industry that wouldnt be able to make that type of income doing anything but slangin rocks on the corner, if thats how you feel, then i hope you never see a reward for you hard work. and if you dont, it will be well deserved.
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
Dear lilhatedon:

Are the blues dead? I listened to some Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf yesterday? Is Stevie Ray Vaughan a bastardization for playing his guitar so well?

Rock n' roll was taken over by the mainstream culture? Should it have only been kept for a select few that are "allowed" to do it? What if rock did not have a chance to expand and become something different?

It is hard to keep something closed for long.

I understand your position, but I believe you should view the situation from the point of view of people making the money, and the consumers that purchase so much of the product you don't like. It's a business, and they will do whatever they can to live a life of esteemed privilege and make their target for the quarter.

If you were making money selling bubblegum hiphop going to restaurants paying $175 a plate for gourmet lobster or driving your Rolls Royce on the Cote d'Azur, Ocean Boulevard, or vacationing in Dubai, I think you would be judging circumstances differently.

Perhaps there might be some resentment for the people that are making money catering to the public's demand? Is that wrong? It might not be artistic, but it makes a lot of sense from a fiduciary standpoint.

Sincerely,
God
 
O

o.Prime

Guest
If by dead you mean scattered all over the world in millions of places then yeah, its dead. Its dead to the average music person that defines their musical tastes by whats on MTV and the radio. And its really dead to the new generation of kids that think that the first person Dr. Dre did production for is Eminem.

Hip Hop/Rap music, like rock music or any other genre thats here to stay, goes through cycles. But as long as new people keep doing new things then it will keep moving.
 

MadScientist

Geniuz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 20
Hip Hop is not dead yet but it is dying. When you have songs like "Can't Stop Won't Stop" by Young Gunz getting nominated for a Grammy and shit like that you know its on its way out. Just like that Kanye West bullshit "Through The Wire" .... that shit sucks .... he can't even rap. he needs to stick to producing. Yeah all music genres goes through cycles and one of them is to die out. If you don't see that happening in the near future then your just in denial. Music will always be around but when I speak of dead I mean not a money maker. Jazz is dead . There are tons of people who love jazz and buy it. BUT! it doesn't even come close to the amount of money a Hip Hop artist will make or the # of albums sold. So therefore its dead. So if your young and thinking that this will never die down I suggest you think again. This is not about music any more. Its all about business. You know how people say is 10% music and 90% business .... well its 100% business right now. The politics are fuckin' Hip Hop up. Its the Major record Labels doing this ... they have the power to shut Hip Hop down if they want. And whats worse is that by over saturating the market with Hip Hop Burger King commercials rapping about special sauce and all white meat nuggets we are killing it even faster. When rappers become movie stars because of there name not because of there talent or skill ... Hip Hop will die. When a ugly, stinky, dread wearing fool screams "OK" (Lil' Jon and the Eastsideboys) on a record 50 millions times ... Hip Hop is dead. I can make a list of endless things but I would be here for the next 2 years. Hip Hop will die out at some point. When I say die out I don't mean that no one will still listen to it. I mean that it won't be the money maker it is today. It will be underground. It will be something that still exist but not in the mainstream. Therefore its DEAD!
 

da_rippa

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
aight pimpin i respect your opinions and all but this is my veiw and how i see it...the only thing i can think of is that yall are just TOO OLD! i mean damn cuz, you gotta face it...hip hop has a new target market. and im not too sure of your age but judgin by the content of your posts, your probably aint in it. yea you had your eric B's and jam master jay's and whoever else yall had (i dont know none a that ol skool shit) when i started listenin to rap i was put on the lox, dmx, snoop (yea i kno hes been around for a while but i was in the no limit snoop dogg era) and them niggas, so shit cuz yea hip hop is dyin, but the thing is that its only dyin for you and those like you (as in those that cant accept change that easy) but for me shit is jus warmin up...i will agree with you on the yung gunz thing, that does show how money is power. but that song was a success anyway even if us producers/rappers can see it for the trash it is. but as far as kayne goes, anything that man does is fire...he's brought a whole new product to a new generation (yea samplin been goin on for years, but dont get ignorant you kno wut im talkin about) and we love it (well the avg listeners) i like most of his stuff too tho because i dont kno most of the old songs so im hearin the songs as "the new generation" is hearim them, and then after you throw in the fact that the avg listener dosent even know wut samplin is, shiiiiitt the mans a genious to them, so you have to respect that.

but yea back to the subject of hip hop dyin, well no. the "original hip hop generation" 's population is jus steadily decreadin and WE are increasin...but dont worry all of us arent like the yung gunz, but on the other hand, everyone out now isnt like jay-z and nas or whoever you favorite rapper is, everyone is not like them...so what am i sayin?????

im sayin we jus have to wait until the "new generation" 's jay-z, nas, biggie, pac, and big pun's come, thats all it is...dont try to make yourself feel better about your generations style/preference of hip hop fadin away by sayin that hip hop is dyin!!! i mean be real man! WUTS DA BIZZNESS???!!!

and o yea aint nuthin wrong with lil jon man, the beats he's been makin latly are killin da market, they are straight hot to death...dependin on where your from you mite not like that style of rap, but shit like i said b4 its jus somethin different. i dont like alot of stuff out the south and same with da north, but damn "you cant stop it when its hot, its hot" correct?
 

Craig Gantt

Microphone Violator
ill o.g.
The only things in hip hop that die are eras, for example gangsta rap is dead. The thing is people get "real hip hop" and a form of hip hop that they like confused, who's to say what real hip hop is? Hip hop isnt the diamonds on your chain or watch is the whole god damn diamond mine somewhere in Africa ya feel me?
 

MadScientist

Geniuz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 20
usually I don't reply to things like this after I gave my opinion because I don't want to start a argument. But age has nothing to do with this. I know were your coming from when you talk about generations. Kind of like someone today couldn't come out sounding like Run DMC back in the 80's. Thats that Granny Goose rhyme shit. But thats not what I'm talking about. I don't want albums like that I don't want to hear any more Eric B. I never listened to him growing up. I never liked Nas' Illmatic .... I never liked that old Hip Hop, Brake beats, etc. I don't care for that underground shit either. I like change and new things but not when its talentless garbage. Come on man. Get with it.

I play drums and keyboard. So I have a musical background. I'm not saying you need to be one to be a producer but my ear is musically trained so I can tell when someone is just pounding on keys and not knowing what there doing. I'm not a sheep .... I don't follow trends .... "the average listener" is a follower and is brain washed. Most songs these days are force fed to the public through payola. If all thats playing on the air waves is garbage then you have no choice but to acquire a taste for that crap. Before you know it .... you become a average listener and thats what I'm not.

Everyone these days raps, produces, etc. you name it, they do it. Its a fad. I've been doing this producing shit for about 10 years before it was a fad and pro tools was industry standard. I did it because I grew up in music. HIP HOP is DYING because of the commercial success. Like I stated earlier Burger King, McDonald commercials about special sauce .... whats next ? cartoons? action figures? cereal? video games? its gotten out of hand. It becomes overkill after a while. Hip Hop is not Hip Hop anymore its POP .... or if you will Hip Pop. There are more rappers then fans. Its flooded. A lot of people are living in a fantasy world. What happens is one idiot makes it with no talent and every other idiot thinks he can to. Its a domino effect. The more dummies that follow this make it harder to get in the industry and kill Hip Hop in the process.

Lil Jon Sucks!!!!!! (I'm not talking about his beats)
 

afriquedeluxe

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 221
word up scientist, im feelin ya. but u kno i 2 think dat since most of us here are musicians, we see da material dats comin out nowadayz from a different view. normal conusmers wnt hear stuff da same way we do, jus look at dat yung gunz trck, lots of peeps who i kno dat r musical in wateva way, think its wack, but normal consumers tink its mad dope!
i dnt really see hiphop as dien, altho i do believe it will, jus like otha music genres. but da same ting dats hapenin 2 hiphop is happenin 2 otha genres 2 like rock. reall rockers/rock heads think bands like linkin park sold out, and c bands such as blink 182 as bubble gum pop. da only genre dat wnt die is ............................................................................................................POP! cuz it can b anythin..its very versatile n apppears in many different states
 

J-malice

PRODUCER ALMIGHTY!!
ill o.g.
aight yea i kinda agree with alot of what your sayin now about tha whole "If all thats playing on the air waves is garbage then you have no choice but to acquire a taste for that crap." thing. that does make alot of sense. there is alot of garbage ass rappers comin out and gettin alot of playtime. but there is also some thats actually bringin some respectable new styles but the ratio of good to garbage dosent look too good rite now. but the thing is...the hip hop industry is succeedin in reachin its target market so it wont die. Maybe its roots and origins mite somewut be ignored (or wutever...try and understand wut i mean), but it wont die.

yea you're rite about everyone rappin or producin but shit most of em suck but alot of us can actually bring some sort of substance back into the game, or atleast make tracks so that when you hear em you can actually tell that alot of effort and creativity went into writin the verse, now the hooks on the other hand are officially "sold out" but shit i like it that way, yall gotta admit hooks are ill as hell now.

and for the record i been doin this for 7 years but grew up in music also. i neva played anything except for the drums, and played the trumpet for a lil bit. i can say that my raps and rhymes are better than alot of the garbage that your talkin about. i think i got in the game durin the gangsta rap era (around the time of the lox's money power respect realease)
 

MadScientist

Geniuz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 20
well, since Pop can be anything ...... and right now its Hip Hop ..... it will die when it becomes something else right ?????? Thats my point ... Hip Hop won't always be at the top. Of course music never really dies but I'm referring to the money making machine it is right now. It becomes worthless when no one is buying it and I feel it will come to a point that the amount of consumers will drop that purchase Hip Hop CD's because of repetitive trash that gets played on a consistent basis. Thats what I mean by dying out. Ya feel me !!!
 

J-malice

PRODUCER ALMIGHTY!!
ill o.g.
i definatly feel you, and the same goes with anything. when people think somethins played out then they dont buy it anymore. its just the way it is, but now the question is who is hip hop gettin played out to?? the producers? or the avg listeners/the customers? the reason i keep sayin that hip hop wont die is because its become a way of life for us. for hip hop to die you have to take away the clubs, the fashion, the whole 9 not just the music. and trust me theres ALOT of people thats just not willing to give up that lifestyle. they still gone cop dat new shit when it comes out, and there will always be a demand for it.
 

Architect

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
One of the things mentioned here that is a contributing factor to the demise of Hip-Hop is money plain and simple. Once the record company execs and all the other influential people saw the money making potential of Hip-Hop Rap music, whoop there it is, they flooded the market with whatever they felt the target market would consume.

And who is the target market?
1. Young urban kids
2. White kids who want to be down
3. Young adults many not older than 40
4. etc, etc

You get the picture I hope, and what would occupy their thoughts primarily?

1.Money
2.Sex
3.Drugs
4.Violence

You feel me?

This was calculated by the powers that be, it involved one major thing MONEY, they could give a rats ass about PRESERVING THE CULTURE, UPLIFTING AND CREATING GREAT MUSIC FOR ALL TO LISTEN TO!

So once this caught on and boy did it catch on, the other artists and record companies that wanted to compete, were forced to follow the same path or sleep on the streets (meaning not get paid).

There are some that didn't follow the herd or go with the flow and they may or may not have been as successful, I mean the proof is in the pudding, whether you like it or not. Bad production and bad rhymes, etc all get approved everyday by A&R's and signed to big deals to carry on more nonsense.

Rap music is alive and well making millions of dollars, Hip-Hop as we know it if you care to make a clear distinction has suffered greatly, but I don't even think all of us can agree on what IS HIP-HOP MUSIC anymore for us to debate about whether it's dead or not.
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
Hip hop is not dead.

If it was, it wouldn't be on every channel all the time.

If it was, it wouldn't be the one genre that receives the most promotional attention and backing within a major label's corporate structure.

If it was, it wouldn't be the form of music that is considered the "forefront" for majors, even more so than rock. Rock acts, unless you're big, hate hip-hop acts because a lot of time is devoted to developing the hip-hop act.

It appeals to teens, which is what really counts, not what you or I think.

FROM A MAJOR LABEL STANDPOINT, HIP HOP IS ONE OF THE MOST PROFITABLE FORMS OF MUSIC.

Overhead is low (studio costs), touring is generally a non-issue (so the label doesn't front the money like in rock) and it is VERY EASY to churn out record after record. Whereas rock is dependant on one or two people writing music that may or may not be hits.

Hip hop is LIKE pop. You have someone that raps and has a cool image... or a pop star that sings and has a good image, there is a HUGE pool of beats or songs that a hiphop star and pop star can pull out hits, and it is just easy to churn out music.

Hiphop isn't dead. It's just mainstream, and it will change, just like other cycles of music. You have to be aware of that, and also aware of what people want.

Good luck!!

Sincerely,
God
 

MadScientist

Geniuz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 20
I think God didn't understand what some of us are trying to say. No one ever said Hip Hop IS dead .... I suggest you go back and read again. What you said ^^ .... I think everyone here realizes that.
 

Architect

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 3
No argument there God, Hip-Hop is profitable, but that doesn't make me feel any better hearing 50 cent tell me how to stunt and turn around making millions of dollars or hearing another gangsta tale of someone murdering another 'N***a. What I feel IS DEAD IN HIP-HOP is the original intent in my view to be progressive, to be a voice for the youth, to speak about the urban plight but in a good manner which can be encouraging and uplifting to the people that created it. Maybe I'm way off but that is what I love about Hip-Hop and that's what is lacking in big ways compared to the other stuff. I could care less about Videos, MTV, BET, any of that stuff I don't want to be rapped up into that, I want to send a message, I want to rock your body (not saying that Hip-Hop doesn't do that now) but I want to include something that can be appreciate by all generations or else it's just a fad. Your not going to dust off that old 50 cent (I'm just picking on him) CD 30 years from now and say wow this was a dope album, I've forgotten how to stunt, I've forgotten how many N***a that I want to pop off, or yeah I want to clap back on your ass!

Hip-Hop isn't going anywhere it's changing for better or worse, but there needs to be more balance than what I'm hearing these days.
just my two cent
 
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