HD Rig

[Formant024]

well i do alot of it all, we are working with a live band, i record my artist,we do commercial dubs, so i stay a lil busy, i want to put out the best sound recordings i can, my studio i would like to be known for a nice sound ya know? like i said, im lookin at a few options, i was looking at that saffire 56 joint and a mackie mcu, that would replace my 1884, i like the krk 8's and the yamaha hs80 i played with those at GC and the krks at a local studio. tryin to see what are some options, i mean hell if PT native is based off my pc i may aswell build a beast! and stay how i am...

what budget will you be looking at ? how many i/o and how many pre-amps do you need ?

 

[Scholar]

ok my grams passed she left all her kids 10k 8 kids...anyway ma dukes gave me hers, to help fund my biz... imma stack till tax season so i should have about 14k to play with! im tryin to see whats the best route, the largest set i have done was 24 tracks at once, but that was some live shit. yo thanks for yall time!

 

[thedreampolice]

What are your plans as far as growing the business? How much will you spend on marketing?

In this situation I would absolutely put the money in to mic's and pre amps. Mainly because these are two things that don't devalue over time, for example a 3k U87 will have a high resell value forever, where an HD rig will be worth nothing at some point in the next decade. And dear god spend some money on decent monitors. That is where you should not go cheap!

Let me think about what you need and I will get back to you.

 

[Formant024]

14k for a 24track mobile setup ?

There's a lotta ways to go around this but also look if there's a good place to rent audio stuff. If you ever come to an exploit where you need 24chnls of pre amps or more, rent one for that one occasion.

You could get an rme madi card for mobile, hook up the alphalink on madi and a 8chnl pre amp connected to the adat port of the alphalink. You'd have 8 really good mic pre's and the rest ssl lines. In this setup you'd have enough to get proper nearfields and the avid artist controller. done!

 

[Scholar]

no not a mobile rig, im settin up my studio space, and yes i know i need new monitors, i treated my room last year, and trust me i know, my mixes dont translate consistant enough. the tascam isnt a bad unit, just tascam dont support it any longer...so im lookin for a unit that will get long time support! i been lookin at rme and that saffire joint.

 

[Formant024]

No experience with the saffire, not to positive on the previous saffire interfaces but @ $1000 bucks for 8mic pre's and 8 lines/10 outs you're set to go.

RME doesnt make pre's like the isa but Focusrite doesnt make converters like RME lol. I worked with the hdsp, awesome stuff from rme but the downpart is that most of gear doesnt come with mic pres and when they do it wont be enough.

Most audio products that provide long term service are solid state based gear. You can bet that the Tascam will get a replacement or cirquitboard replacement, so the saffire will probably have the same guarantee. I often dont bother much and set the expectations based on previous products/service, even more valuable is a good distributer. Ive seen our's doing the long stretch and anything that hasnt been right we got full support from them aswell from ssl(in our issues, ssl wasnt enough).

I'd still suggest a better base opposed to the saffire, RME HDSPe Madi is very flexible. Granted that you'd still need the a/d pre and lines, but there's a lot of options within a reasonable budget, but from the looks of it, it might be too much. I gather from looking at the saffire you want 8 line in and 8 mic pres ? Do you actualy need a lot of line d/a ?

 

[Scholar]

I was curious as to if i need that many as well, i mean i do have a band that i work with, but i guess a mixer could help...so many choices...

 

[Formant024]

Often a trade off, if you dont need a mixer, dont get one but get an avid artist mix instead. I simply state that the best signalpath from source to recorder has nothing in between...not even a mixer. What you do need is some controlroom functions you'd find on a mixer, presonus central station is a common replacement on budget, big spenders go Cranesong Avocet or custombuild.

But it is important to count the amount of pre's you need, a drumkit is 2 mics in the least, but normaly would already take up almost all pre's on a saffire. Its nice to have 32 topnotch pres but if you know which mics are going to be used on a good mic or position then you might consider other pre's to be less selective so you could dable between a topnotch 8 chnl pre amp via adat to ...any daw interface. If that interface comes with mic pre's then you could use those for source that dont suite a grade A mic pre.

Nice 8chnl mic pre on a budget is the motu 8pre, bang for the buck imo. Connect on FW or expands via adat (or merge interfaces via osx).

 

[Scholar]

Well i def want a controller, like mackie, but i know i need a new front end, a higher definition front end, i was lookin at focusrite because they claim that PT9 is a partnership they made, and i was gonna just turn my fw 1884 into a adat box with 8 more pres...i got mad options i see!

 

[Formant024]

PT9 doesnt require any specific hardware, sure..some stuff is probably more dedicated but that still addresses the most basic features. There are a lot bridge devices, to have connectivity with an HD rig and analog/digital i/o. This just marketing, its rarely the case that a daw truly depends on specific hardware (like most mastering setups).

Maybe its smart to check on nearfields first, check your roomsize to match size drivers (not to big). Then get a base setup for connetivity and you basic 12-16 chnls analogue i/o + digital i/o. We wennt for a base setup with ssl madi extreme and alphalink madi ax, which combined with logic gives insanely little latency using 32 samples up to 88.2kHz. Though, this might be more relevant when recording a band opposed to pre production itb.

 

[Scholar]

Yeah i know PT9 made it open to third party interfaces, im merely stating i want something very stable, im not a mac guy, so i have to build my own most times, now i hear the saffire has nice converters and pre's, but rme is mad stable with great support! Now you mentioned the Avid artist mix, is that better then the mackie mcu? see here there isnt much to go and try out, our guitar center is small, so not much in stock, have to order it and shit, back to the monitors, sadly my room is small, 10x9x9, but i treated it, thinkin bout framin out the basement,tryin to be ready to go by spring! yo thanks for the advice, much love!

 

[Formant024]

Ouch..your room is almost square, get good small speakers lol. PC part is still a little unforunate when looking at perfomance osx vs windows, coreaudio whoops major ass when it comes to latency. In fact, a macbook running pt9 rightnow would have no latency problems at all when using the ONBOARD soundcard' i/o. On a pc, regardless of what windows version you're going to run, you always have 2ms latency. Not that it underlines what's key about osx, but osx is spot on for running a daw. Dont get me wrong either on windows, been using windows daws for years and as long as its itb and pre-production you'll find nothing wrong. On recording you'll get the most hardware support from osx, best support for daw. You could go hackintosh but be warned that some pci-e cards dont work properly (rme/ssl).

The artist mix is nice, by the looks, features, everything you're going to need is there, motorized and touchsensitive. Its not made for any specific daw but it adapts the easiest to logic and pt(there's templates for everything, but for those 2 its pretty much connect/go).

It DOES have some issues; the previous and first model had cheap(recycled)covers which tend to break easy and thats not even remotely funny considering the price. The avid is probably exactly the same, different color, different logo. The Avid artist mix has had a lousy firmware upgrade as a follow up to the euphonix since they havent found out the proper encoding for motorized faders. The faders receive a digital signal stating to which position it should go but they got the trimming all wrong. It looks and sounds like a servo which you want give a pulse to move beyond its reach. Its stutters, shakey moves and noise emitting telling you it does not compute. Im guessing Avid went ahead to hastly workout the firmware upgrade and never got this right, but shit gotta sell lol (imo, this isnt a hardware bug, just sloppy firmware).

TBH, we've been looking to acquire them in the studio since they got out but we're just not convinced yet. I could see Euphonix developing an army grade controller if you like, but Avid/M-audio sometimes makes me want to cry, ergo, i dont think they will improve much of it (i think theyve said that the bugfixes to the current firmware should be available in september...)

The major annoying ffin thing is, its still the best design out there. When i look at it i think "i dont need more, i dont need less..this is it".

 

[Scholar]

whats a ideal room size? my basement is large, with 9 foot ceilings, and im really considering moving down there, it would allow more traffic without bothering my family...my uncle is a contractor said he would do the work as long as i help and buy supplies...talk to me folks! lol

 

[Formant024]

There's 5x7x3(m)/5x8x3 from the fibonacci sequence. Its not so much the size, but the ratio that creates the shape which matters...


ultimately there's a solution for every room.
http://www.cardas.com/pdf/roomsetup.pdf

 

[Scholar]

There's 5x7x3(m)/5x8x3 from the fibonacci sequence. Its not so much the size, but the ratio that creates the shape which matters...


ultimately there's a solution for every room.
http://www.cardas.com/pdf/roomsetup.pdf

Thanks for that, could help me if i move in the basement,ok i got a question, iMac or Mac Pro, you got me rethinking building a pc, and i was just lookin over at apple,maybe i will break down and get a mac...in any event thanks all that helped confuse yet set me straight! peace!

 

[thedreampolice]

If you are eventually going Pro tools HD a imac is out.

 

[Scholar]

yeah no room for cards, was just peepin that out, what about the monitors, i been doin alot of research, like i said im tryin to get ideas so when i got all my ducks in hand, ill know what im ordering!

 

[thedreampolice]

as far as near fields go, Formant and I where actually discussing that in another thread.

Personally I am very partial to the Focals. You could pick up a pair of CMS65's for like $1600 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CMS65/

The three main studios I work at have Focals, NS10, and JBL's. At home I have Event 20/20 Bas's (the older models not the reissue) that I love. But if I could just pick one it would be Focals hands down.

 

[Formant024]

yeah, while imac has enough power it lacks pci-e slots so you'releft with a mac pro.

FYI Multicores are dope, but osx only uses 1 core when recording lol. Still, get the best mac pro you can afford.

Tip on Cardas page, diagram I is the best, its the theather mode. If you can build it with your uncle then consider one side wall being an existent one, meaning you have to calculate an angle for the sidewall you need to build and place it in the rectangle room. The ceiling also has a slope in the trapagon but you dont need! to build you ceiling that way, you can also hang up big diffusers and place them in an angle accordingly above your head.

 

[Scholar]

yeah i saw that, was checkin out them focals, just wish i had a store to A/B stuff, but thanks for yall knowledge, mad welcome here!