general panning guidelines

[ron herman]

Wondering if someone could drop some knowledge on general guidelines for panning of instruments.
Thanks in advance.

Ron

 

[djswivel]

Honestly, here is one place where you can really develop your sound, and bring it to life. A lot of beginners COMPLETELY overlook panning and usually end up with a mono mix, that just sounds and feels dead.

Panning can accomlish a lot in your music. The biggest thing is to give every instrument its own space in the pocket of the mix. Generally leave All your main drums (k, sn, hh) panned center, as well as lead vocal tracks panned center. After that, it's really all on you! Just give everything its own space in the mix so esentially the mix has room to breath. All your sounds will be clear and audible, so you don't have to overkill it by simply pulling up the fader.

If you're recording a singer often times you'lltriple or quadruple everything. Sometimes more. In this case you can create a nice vocal spread by panning some takes left and some equally right. This build a nice wall of sound will really comes through in your mixes. Some other great tips with panning you can use, are inscrease the spread on your instruments. I'm not sure about other keyboards and software, but in Reason, on the NN-XT and I'm pretty sure a few of the other sound modules there is a SPREAD knob. If you put it to the maximum, it will sread the piano roll across your pan window, so your bass notes are panned left and gradually as you go up the piano roll the notes will gradually pan right....I wouldnt use 100% spread, especially if you're using a WIDE range of notes, but 50% doesn't hurt, and it just gives more life to the instrument. In my experience it works best with piano, and natural sounding instruments....

This is just the tip of the iceberg! Experiment with your pans, yo can even try automating your pans for a nice effect is used properly. Don't hold back!

 

[misscc803]

Yeah keep your main things centered and then play around with the other sounds. Cause if u keep everything dead center it kills the track and it sounds horrible. I mean it may not sound bad when its coming out during makin it but trust me once u record it and put it on CD u will be able to tell the difference. Good Luck Wit It!!

 

[Hypnotist]

Ron,

Think of panning as this:

You're standing in the middle of a half-circle and you have these sounds in your hands. Just place the sounds across this room so that it's balanced right in front of you. Say "ok, where am I gonna put this one?" and just throw it out there and give it its own special spot.

What NOT to do:
When stereo came out, engineers were doing CRAZY things to the mixes. Putting certain things completely on the left, other things completely on the right, etc. Why? Because they COULD. But then it got to the point where it was distracting the listener from the actual music. Same thing happened with 5.1 surround sound when it was first developed. Engineers were using pan automation and having guitars circle around the room like monkeys, and the listeners would get dizzy, and not enjoy the music.

The trick
Use panning moderately. At least at first. Pay CLOSE attention to other music and how it's panned. Identify each instrument and ask yourself where it is, where the reverb is for that particular sound. Find the patterns of what engineers USUALLY do. Decide whether you want to follow this pattern as a shortcut. Decide WHY these methods were used, and DO THEY WORK? Does it make the song better with the guy who coughs panned all the way hard-left? Kicks, snares and bass guitars have always been in the center for other reasons besides taste. With phonographs (records) the needle would jump out of the groove if the kick, snare or bass guitar was panned anywhere but the middle. Many engineers mix in the drummer's perspective, to where all the percussion instruments are. Others mix in the audience's perspective. Some people take no consideration that there was even a drummer. Most times, there's a box with pads or buttons anyway. But that's another story.

Pan for gold.

-Hypno

 

[Daymo]

Some great advice here - thanks for taking the time to type these responses up.

Cheers
Daymo

 

[open mind]

man i completely overlooked panning.i did sum fast testing with it and the result was very good.that would be absolutely a stupid thang to not use that powerfool tool "panning".its so great in giving a special place for something u want to "stand" out a bit in the mix.

big up to sanova "the don" for giving me the advice.thanks bro

 

[Fury]

there is no rule of panning...pan any way u want shyt like panning is used to put ur own special twist to ur own sound na mean

 

[Sanova]

man i completely overlooked panning.i did sum fast testing with it and the result was very good.that would be absolutely a stupid thang to not use that powerfool tool "panning".its so great in giving a special place for something u want to "stand" out a bit in the mix.

big up to sanova "the don" for giving me the advice.thanks bro

Word no doubt. I dunno how long this thread has been here, but there is definately some good info here. Props on the peeps that posted.

 

[Artistix]

Ron,

Think of panning as this:

You're standing in the middle of a half-circle and you have these sounds in your hands. Just place the sounds across this room so that it's balanced right in front of you. Say "ok, where am I gonna put this one?" and just throw it out there and give it its own special spot.

What NOT to do:
When stereo came out, engineers were doing CRAZY things to the mixes. Putting certain things completely on the left, other things completely on the right, etc. Why? Because they COULD. But then it got to the point where it was distracting the listener from the actual music. Same thing happened with 5.1 surround sound when it was first developed. Engineers were using pan automation and having guitars circle around the room like monkeys, and the listeners would get dizzy, and not enjoy the music.

The trick
Use panning moderately. At least at first. Pay CLOSE attention to other music and how it's panned. Identify each instrument and ask yourself where it is, where the reverb is for that particular sound. Find the patterns of what engineers USUALLY do. Decide whether you want to follow this pattern as a shortcut. Decide WHY these methods were used, and DO THEY WORK? Does it make the song better with the guy who coughs panned all the way hard-left? Kicks, snares and bass guitars have always been in the center for other reasons besides taste. With phonographs (records) the needle would jump out of the groove if the kick, snare or bass guitar was panned anywhere but the middle. Many engineers mix in the drummer's perspective, to where all the percussion instruments are. Others mix in the audience's perspective. Some people take no consideration that there was even a drummer. Most times, there's a box with pads or buttons anyway. But that's another story.

Pan for gold.

-Hypno

Thats some good insight really well written makes me want to work on my panning

 

[Rhythmikal]

Wat percentages is everyone using? i try not to go beyond 20%.

 

[Hypnotist]

20%?

I go everywhere from 1% to 100%.

You gotta double up your sounds to make a difference with something panned hard left and hard right. Remember that true stereo means that there is two signals of the same source from different angles, or two takes from the same angle.

Rarely do I take one signal and put it all the way right or left. There are times when I have an adlib track and I EQ it and thin it out, then pan it all the way right, as long as there's another ad lib track somewhere on the left to balance it out. It's only for subtle effect though. I keep shit like that low in my mix.

 

[open mind]

20%?

I go everywhere from 1% to 100%.

You gotta double up your sounds to make a difference with something panned hard left and hard right. Remember that true stereo means that there is two signals of the same source from different angles, or two takes from the same angle.

Rarely do I take one signal and put it all the way right or left. There are times when I have an adlib track and I EQ it and thin it out, then pan it all the way right, as long as there's another ad lib track somewhere on the left to balance it out. It's only for subtle effect though. I keep shit like that low in my mix.

for example if i pan a snare 10% to the right do i need to double it up same snare on 100%left? in other words when do i need doubling it up? maybe in case of more then 50% ????

sorry for the noob question but iam new to this panning stuff

 

[Hypnotist]

for example if i pan a snare 10% to the right do i need to double it up same snare on 100%left? in other words when do i need doubling it up? maybe in case of more then 50% ????

To clarify about panning: When you have one track and it's a mono track, you will have one spot to put it between two speakers. There is always a relationship between one speaker and the next. So if you put it 40% to the left, then it's still "leaking" a little in the right speaker. (40 to the left is actually 60% left, 40% right when you actually think about how much is going to your speakers... If you had 1% left, that's 1% LESS than what you're putting in the right speaker, which means it's 51% left and 49% right)

Snares usually sound good dead center. But 10% off to the right isn't too much to go crazy about, and it's moderate enough to not really matter. 10% is a good "flavor" to add, moving it over, then placing something right on the other side at 10% to balance it out. And even that's a preference, if you ask me. I say "usually" in the first sentence as a guideline to what EVERYONE ELSE does. Doesn't mean you HAVE to pan that way... it's just what people's ears are used to.

Say you had rhodes keys, a smooth nylon guitar, a hammond b3 organ recorded in stereo with 2 mics with a leslie amp, and one trumpet. If you put them all in the middle, it would be tough to listen to. (You SHOULD get to a point where you know how to mix in mono though... this is very important. Always A-B your mix from mono to stereo to make sure nothing phases out, and everything will still be there, if, say, someone was playing it in a department store with one speaker overhead.) But if you put the hammond wide (100-100 on both tracks) so you can hear the rotating tweeters, put the rhodes say at 40% left, put the nylon at say 60% right, and throw the trumpet right in the middle if it's a good lead instrument. This is just numbers I'm throwin outta my ash hole, but try em. Try different places for everything.

Stereo just means two distinct signals. If you took two of the same exact signal and duplicated them, then put them 100 left, 100 right, it would be the same thing as taking one track and putting it right in the middle, only it would be louder. (Sine waves are additive, and it would just amplify the signal).

True stereo is when they're distinctly different. You would have either two microphones from two different angles, or one microphone recording two different takes of the same thing.

To make something "wide" without having two different signals, sometimes you'd throw it through some reverb, which would be panned hard-left and right, and it would give it depth.

The only way you're going to learn about panning is if you mess with it. Make different mixes with different panning techniques, and then listen back in different systems. Get people's feedback on it. Too much panning will distract your listener. See if that's the case. Find out if what you did was tasteful, or if it was too much.

Hope this little bit helped.

 

[open mind]

To clarify about panning: When you have one track and it's a mono track, you will have one spot to put it between two speakers. There is always a relationship between one speaker and the next. So if you put it 40% to the left, then it's still "leaking" a little in the right speaker. (40 to the left is actually 60% left, 40% right when you actually think about how much is going to your speakers... If you had 1% left, that's 1% LESS than what you're putting in the right speaker, which means it's 51% left and 49% right)

Snares usually sound good dead center. But 10% off to the right isn't too much to go crazy about, and it's moderate enough to not really matter. 10% is a good "flavor" to add, moving it over, then placing something right on the other side at 10% to balance it out. And even that's a preference, if you ask me. I say "usually" in the first sentence as a guideline to what EVERYONE ELSE does. Doesn't mean you HAVE to pan that way... it's just what people's ears are used to.

Say you had rhodes keys, a smooth nylon guitar, a hammond b3 organ recorded in stereo with 2 mics with a leslie amp, and one trumpet. If you put them all in the middle, it would be tough to listen to. (You SHOULD get to a point where you know how to mix in mono though... this is very important. Always A-B your mix from mono to stereo to make sure nothing phases out, and everything will still be there, if, say, someone was playing it in a department store with one speaker overhead.) But if you put the hammond wide (100-100 on both tracks) so you can hear the rotating tweeters, put the rhodes say at 40% left, put the nylon at say 60% right, and throw the trumpet right in the middle if it's a good lead instrument. This is just numbers I'm throwin outta my ash hole, but try em. Try different places for everything.

Stereo just means two distinct signals. If you took two of the same exact signal and duplicated them, then put them 100 left, 100 right, it would be the same thing as taking one track and putting it right in the middle, only it would be louder. (Sine waves are additive, and it would just amplify the signal).

True stereo is when they're distinctly different. You would have either two microphones from two different angles, or one microphone recording two different takes of the same thing.

To make something "wide" without having two different signals, sometimes you'd throw it through some reverb, which would be panned hard-left and right, and it would give it depth.

The only way you're going to learn about panning is if you mess with it. Make different mixes with different panning techniques, and then listen back in different systems. Get people's feedback on it. Too much panning will distract your listener. See if that's the case. Find out if what you did was tasteful, or if it was too much.

Hope this little bit helped.

that cleared it out fo me.thanks a lot.

 

[Jenre]

What NOT to do:
When stereo came out, engineers were doing CRAZY things to the mixes. Putting certain things completely on the left, other things completely on the right, etc. Why? Because they COULD.

Well, probably had more to do with the fact that they only had switches back then for panning: left, right and centre.

 

[veon]

What NOT to do:
When stereo came out, engineers were doing CRAZY things to the mixes. Putting certain things completely on the left, other things completely on the right, etc. Why? Because they COULD.

Well, probably had more to do with the fact that they only had switches back then for panning: left, right and centre.

i belive hypnotist was talkin of the era when they could turn a knob not flick a switch. and in the begginin they did that hard pannin. i think was a matter of exploration.

 

[ron herman]

Yeah but that hard panning is great for finding samples sometimes the drums are completely panned to the left. Or the bass is panned to the right.

 

[Hypnotist]

Yeah but that hard panning is great for finding samples sometimes the drums are completely panned to the left. Or the bass is panned to the right.

Yea, you'd be lucky to find it tho. Sometimes you'll find those kinda samples in some new-age stuff, or some East Indian music.

Well, probably had more to do with the fact that they only had switches back then for panning: left, right and centre.

Hmmm... I wonder what year they actually used potentiometers instead of switches, but I was talking about the experimental phase of pot panning, like veon said.

 

[ron herman]

Yea, you'd be lucky to find it tho. Sometimes you'll find those kinda samples in some new-age stuff, or some East Indian music.

No not true. late 60's through the mid 70's alot of albums were mixed like that. You pull up samples in soundforge or wav lab you can see it. bass line real heavy to the right, drums on the left. Sly Stone is a good example.

 

[Steel Side]

Well the way I view panning is a slightly different approach. There is no right or wrong way, It's a very personal technique. I think of a symphony orchestra or a band on stage. Where would the instruments be located? Where would the sounds come from? I look at it from the conductor's point of view because for the sound to get to the audience it has to pass through them first.

This kind of supports the half circle theory expressed earlier.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C005400/orch.html

Remember that with the orchestra there is usually no amplication. The sound relies completly on the acoustic harmonics of the hall. Think about that when adding your reverb as well. And sometimes I like to bounce my pan's between left and right for a sweeping effect. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve.