Eminem' Production

[bigdmakintrax]

See that was a whole notha can of worms Jermaine...back in the Ol school daze of quincey you can still think of Quincy as a real producer......but think of all of his live musicians and orchestras as what the producer today has in his bank of samples, he could find the right sounds and band or musician to play what he visualized thats still pretty heavy shidd though along with Barry White's abilities it's way easier to work with samples than a room full of musicians....to me there are 3 musicians that fuggin revolutionized production at a level of electronics........Stevie Wonder........Prince.....Jimmy Jam an Terry Lewis......now I know ya gonna say that has nothing to do with hip hop but the concepts of one person playing all of the parts made their mark on the Single producer concept with just a Keyboard, Samples and sounds....and in the case of Jam and Lewis the MPC60

 

[mrjermaine]

thats true bigd, I didn't think of it like that.

 

[berserk]

AHMAD - Em didn't do the in da club beat... I don't even think he had the slightest to do with that beat...

 

[mrjermaine]

yeah dre produced in the club

 

[Cold Truth]

no, SCOTT STORCH did that. (watch me be wrong now!) ...

as far as bigd's last post.... amen, amen, AMEN, actually, i think those three guys did A LOT for hip hop production- i guess i'm just a Q fan. arranging is a skill not to thought of in hip hop, but when you listen to certain things (the roots and the whole neo soul genre come to mind) these days, there is such an emphasis on the SONG and STRUCTURE that goes beyond the world of cut and paste- which is its own entity- and as far as i'm concerned Q is the man to go after. dude arranged big and music in the 20's man......... call me when dre or the neptunes or kanye west can succesfully do THAT.

 

[mod1]

My bad,I forgot,I meant to say that he used the same techniques Dre use.

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

My apology goes to BigD. we've misunderstood each other. things like that happen. word.

 

[Wattz21XX]

well i'll just post my opinion on the original topic...
im a fan of em's music overall but not his production. he has a few tracks that are good but to me they just sound average
which isnt good for someone with all that equipment and musicians sittin there.
i also think the only reason people like Jay-Z and Nas or everyone in the industry would want an Em beat is because he is the biggest sellin artist at the moment and just havin his name stamped on your album means automatic sales whether the beat is good or not.

pz

Wattz

 

[Shonsteez]

Ok aside from tha other topics that have arised...Just focusing on whether Em is a dope producer or not:
I say that he has maintained a mediocre standpoint in my opinion.

Nothing special has realy come from that guy yet and ALL HIS BEATS HAVE THA SAME FEEL, AND SOUND TOO MUCH ALIKE.

Im NOT saying that he has to sound like a different producer on every track, i just mean there seems to be NO DIVERSITY UNFORTUNATELY.

I wouldnt completely say he sucks though, there has been some catchy tunes from him...but i cant count tha good ones on 1 hand.


--Steeze

 

[Manji]

Originally posted by bigdmakintrax
Wings you make good points and write a lot on here that makes sense the last 3 months and thatz all good to anyone that might not know any better, I am not sure whether you write from experience or just an internet producer that doesn't get out much, I hate to dissapoint you but you don't really know what you're talking about I won't go into all of the specifics I have been around music and production for awhile Right here on the EAST COAST and I am sorry for Busting your bubble with a lil of Reality based feedback because all you use is software, hopefully that wasn't what sort of pushed you to attempt to counterpoint all of my FACTUAL points and experience as not being true I can't help it but I have been around some producers and their setups that make cuts on albums on a regular basis....some might have fruity loops installed or whatever....but most do not use it and no the samples I am referring to are not available aside from Vinyl...MANJI don't hurt yaself man, you put all of that effort into that IGNANT post like you in ya 12th Grade English Class, thatz cool maybe you can come back with a post worthy of some discussion or debate.... to quote you "NIGGA"....or are you even one? LOL

...

Relax homie I wasn't even trying to dis you but since you took it there I am in the 12th grade for your information nigga it's not my fault all of your post consistist of hard to read run on sentences and shit maybe if you used the enter and tab button on your keyboard we wouldn't be having this argument.........maybe the enter and tab buttons on your keyboard are broken or something if they are that's cool mayne all you gotta do is go to the computer store and buy yourself a new keyboard.....oh yeah my cousin works @ a computer store he's a lame he like's playin dungeons...and dragons i don't like those games they suck and they're or nerds and geeks and lames but that new max payne 2 is tight nigga that shit is dope kinda like my nigga city's beats but anyway i think eminems beats are kinda hot they all sound the same but who's prodution isn't one dimensional all of primier beats sound the same but that doesn't mean he's a bad producer he's kinda like the denzel washington of hiphop his scope may not be that wide but he's still good at his profession...

 

[Formant024]

Yeah, Deuce said it, it all sounds the same and that's probably on purpose. There's a thing for producers I call the sound of now, actualy an issue that comes up more in techno music than in hiphop, but there's a certainty upon what is hot right now when talking of sound, a specific sound, one that make bucks. And I am definitly talking hardware here, romplers in specific. If you take a peek on the latest commercial crap that's coming out you will notice that there are productions by different producers that use a single instrument/ or a specific patch that tends to be realy catchy to the audience ( wether it a god track or not ). That sound will be used a lot for a period and after that you'll never hear it again. Now to the topic, if an artist is not with this hype ( read money ) and his producer fails to reproduce ( re-use a patch ) this sound, he will fall behind in charts because the higher you look up the chart, the more them typical sounds will appear. So if you want money you ask the producer responsible for creating those tracks. We've seen it with everybody and everybody in time will have his " sound " uppin the charts. This is not innovative or progressive, it's just money makin bizz, Jay-Z want Em to make beats because Jay-Z is missin out on cash, I think that's the way it works.

My opinion,

Wether it all sound the same or not,
Feminem sucks donkeyballs! Not feeling this wigger for a minute, or his beats or Dre's for that matter.

 

[Shonsteez]

YEah, i personally dont have a problem with rappers who are white. If they can put it down - then they can be amongst tha status of tha rest of the sea of rappers...But i agree, Eminem is a freakin wigger!!.......What tha hell does he need a dam doo-rag for!?!?! Please somebody tell me??!!??

I suppose if your white and you want to wear a doo-rag than thats cool an all, but isnt tha real purpose of wearing one of those things to keep your hair in check in tha first place? I mean white people dont have tha same texture of hair as black people...thats why my friend Teh always wore his, but he really only wore it to go to sleep...Point is he just looks stupid with tha dam thing on....Take that Dammmm Doo-Ragg Offff Eminemmmm, take it offff!!!!!LOLLOLLOL

 

[Formant024]

What's to say, Eminem is just a product pushed through and exploitated by Dr Dre. Doesn't matter what he looks like, these peeps will get recognition by the market they're getting pushed at. And damn son, that US hiphop market is big, comes in pretty handy if your name's Dr. Dre, but Eminem could just have been Screech with Dre beats, meaning everybody would dig Screech being a rapper. Has nothing to do with the fact that he's white, he's just not appealing to the real deal, except if you fit the discription of the peoplesgroup that Dre's A&R department is target'ing for. In fact, most peeps should know how this goes, in a year or so there will be another Eminem ( read exploit ) and he will probably " produce " beats too, yeah right, big deal...

 

[Cold Truth]

i wouldnt say that. i think we get carried away sometimes- we forget that this guy has put in serious work to get where he is, and whether his success is a result of marketing or not, the masses still choose to support him when they dont support other artists. just something to ponder.......

and as far as reusing the same "patch" over and over agian to be successful, well thats a fine theory- but ya'll act like these beats make themselves sometimes..... whether we consider that wack or not, whether recycling gets old or boring, it still sells because people want it. remember- we are the minority here. most people just want something to dance to. people want whats on mtv. if the people at large wanted conciousness, mos def, kweli, and common would be all over mtv... like it or not, people like it so it sells.

 

[Formant024]

Originally posted by Truth Told
I wouldnt say that. i think we get carried away sometimes- we forget that this guy has put in serious work to get where he is, and whether his success is a result of marketing or not, the masses still choose to support him when they dont support other artists. just something to ponder.......

? What is it you're saying here ? Without being carried away and taking an objective perspective I can conclude that it's a matter of what to feed the mass consumers. There are a lot more potential artists that have worked equally as hard as Eminem. However, that's not a criteria to get into the music industry, yes you need skills, but there've been " artist " with lesser skills making money too on the same level. Fact is, the industry sets what's good or not, what's hot or not and who can represent their company in the most lucrative manner. By the industry's protocol anyone can be potential " star " relativly spoken and like I said before, if Dre had chosen to push Bubba Sparks into the market for his company, then we'd all be discussing about him instead of Eminem.

and as far as reusing the same "patch" over and over agian to be successful, well thats a fine theory- but ya'll act like these beats make themselves sometimes..... whether we consider that wack or not, whether recycling gets old or boring, it still sells because people want it. remember- we are the minority here. most people just want something to dance to. people want whats on mtv. if the people at large wanted conciousness, mos def, kweli, and common would be all over mtv... like it or not, people like it so it sells.

I think you're missing the point on what I said before, which wasn't about the patches specificly, but that's being irrelevant now. It's not about what the people want to hear, it's what the industry tries to push trough and make it lucrative. If the captains of music industry would consider underground hiphop ( example ) to be lucrative we'd all be seeing/hearing undergound artist being filthy rich on mtv resulting to a scenario where the people @ large are willing to hear more of it. It's kinda like brainwashing, if you don't know any better than how the hell can you tell.

 

[Cold Truth]

the industry pushes through what they KNOW people will buy. thats why. the only ones being "force fed" are those of us who demand more, who are generally those involved in MAKING it in one way or the other. they dont say "we WANT to make so-and-so a star" they say "so-and-so is going to be a star because this is what people buy" chingy sold because girls loved him and he had a club hit with a pretty face and name association with ludcris; some a&r rep didnt sit there and say "ok, we're going to force you guys to like this guy" . no, the fact is they know whats marketable and they do their homework on what sels best to what demographic and then package it in such a way that it comes out with has much impact as possible. a&r's dont have the job security, time, or money to waste trying to force something down our throats that we MAY or MAY NOT like. they KNOW WHAT SELLS, and thats because they have something called "research and development" which guages the demand for a product, and then the supply the demand for that product.

there is a reason WHY the execs dont consider underground hip hop lucrative- it is because it WONT sell anywhere NEAR as much. you can give el p eminems marketing budget, his a&r reps and connects and unless he changed his game up he would sell MORE- but he WOULDNT do eminem numbers, or anything close. and you sure wouldnt find any women with an el-p poster.

and the underground heads that HAVE gotten over have all matured their sound to be more competitive witht the pop market- mos def, talib kweli, common come to mind specifically. their commercial success does not sound much like thier underground roots, does it? the fact is the prodcut they made changed- and wether by design or natural progression, that was the deciding factor in their huge increase in sells.

the industry is all about mney. and if they say "this is what we are going to give the people because we want this to be whats hot" it would be a bad decision on their part, because people are actually smarter then we think (even if a million of them did pay for chingy's album) wether we agree with them or not. the bottom line: the industry supplies what the people want.

 

[Formant024]

So, it's still the industry that decides icons not the potential superstars being at it fore a lifetime of dedicated hard labour. If you want to get in it's probably by knowing someone somewhere by incident or you're looking him up. How can you work on something you have no grip on whatsoever ?

 

[Cold Truth]

YOU JUST HAVE TO MAKE THE CHOICE. if you have what it takes- whatever 'it' is for what you are going after- you can still make it. God (or rather my ability to decide to allow Him preeminence in my life) determines whether i have the success i have in my life- so that is my answer. i personally dont depend on label or connections or marketing or even my own abilities for what i will have as success. thats all in the hands of God for me, and so in that sense i still dont have a grip on it- because i could be caught up in what i want for myself and not what He wants for my life- so thats where i'm at.

*sidenote- Props to Formant here. its nice to be able to debate something without it turning into an argument or name calling.... i'm marking this down on my calender!

 

[Formant024]

* well, it's not soundclick and I have plenty of beef there with people who dont know the purpose of being objective, I consider it a very common thing on a board that appeals to you. Besides, we should know better than to act like we're still in puberty.

but, on topic...

You're last post is about your own perspective and how you'll approach this industry to make money. Though, I am basicly here for underground terms of sonic distruction since it appeals to me, I have another personality to produce anything commercial and have the experience of the entertainment industry and believe or not, the things I've learned are is that you can find dozens of people with " relative " talent which you can boost into the charts. How could I doo this ? Well, I was simply looking for talent that appeals Universal, EMi, Sony and well, actually all the big ones that matter. How could I do this, connections I just happen to runn into and I couldn't resist using. my associate was a business moron though, so are the managers in these industry too and finaly I thought if I was too make money I'd rather scope out Asia in order to get lucrative before I got old. So this is my perspective from the experience and jobs that I have done, without pushing my own music out there. Hence my opinion on this industry.

 

[MassProduktionz]

I think EM's beats are wack. The only person I've who's sounded "good" over one of his tracks is Jay Z (and J sounds good over almost anything!).