Do your prefer sampled or real-time hip hop production
- Thread starter Elementree
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FistFulloDollaz
ILLIEN
sYgMa said:
they used records cuz they were being creative
if hip hop music keeps evolving what do you think it will eventually sound like with moving in the direction of live instruments
.....probably nothing like hip hop in years to come
.....I dont know if anybody notices but R&B still sounds like ORIGINAL R&B, Rock still sounds like ORIGINAL Rock, and Country follows suit
.......now why the hell does everyone not want hip hop to sound like ORIGINAL Hip Hop
....like my man said earlier a lot of people dont even know where hip hop came from and its sad
.......and dont give me that limiting excuse cuz sampled beats today are still a step above the back in the day sampled beats
...I think people are making excuses cuz motherfuckers dont even know how to sample, or have never even attempted to.
sYgMa
Making head bangers!!!
Instead of saying that people dont know their history... (I made a lil research)
The roots of hip hop music are in West African and African American music. The griots of West Africa are a group of traveling singers and poets, whose musical style is reminiscent of hip hop. True hip hop arose during the 1970s when block parties became common in New York City, especially in the Bronx. Block parties were usually accompanied by music, especially funk and soul music. The early DJs at block parties began isolating the percussion breaks to hit songs, realizing that these were the most danceable and entertaining parts; this technique was then common in Jamaica (see dub music) and had spread via the substantial Jamaican immigrant community in New York City, especially the godfather of hip hop, DJ Kool Herc. Dub had arisen in Jamaica due to the influence of American sailors and radio stations playing R&B. Large sound systems were set up to accommodate poor Jamaicans, who couldn't afford to buy records, and dub developed at the sound systems (refers to both the system and the parties that evolved around them).
Herc was one of the most popular DJs in early 70s New York, and he quickly switched from using reggae records to funk, rock and, later, disco, since the New York audience did not particularly like reggae. Because the percussive breaks were generally short, Herc and other DJs began extending them using an audio mixer and two records. Mixing and scratching techniques eventually developed along with the breaks. (The same techniques contributed to the popularization of remixes.)
As in dub, performers began speaking while the music played; these were originally called MCs; Herc focused primarily on DJing, and began working with two MCs, Coke La Rock and Clark Kent—this was the first emcee crew, Kool Herc & the Herculoids. Originally, these early rappers focused on introducing themselves and others in the audience (the origin of the still common practice of "shouting out" on hip hop records). These early performers often emceed for hours at a time, with some improvisation and a simple four-count beat, along with a basic chorus to allow the performer to gather his thoughts Later, the MCs incorporating brief rhymes
These early raps incorporated similar rhyming lyrics from African American culture, such as the dozens. While Kool Herc & the Herculoids were the first hip hoppers to gain major fame in New York, more emcee teams quickly sprouted up. Frequently, these were collaborations between former gang members, such as Afrika Bambaataa's Universal Zulu Nation (now a large, international organization). During the early 1970s, breakdancing arose during block parties.
now... If you listen to 50s rock and today's rock... it did evolve (think Elvis and Metallica)
if you listen to RnB... same thing (think The Commodores and Boys to Men)
Country... same thing
Jazz... same thing
All music styles are evolving... even classical music evolved...
Why would Hiphop be the only one not to?
The roots of hip hop music are in West African and African American music. The griots of West Africa are a group of traveling singers and poets, whose musical style is reminiscent of hip hop. True hip hop arose during the 1970s when block parties became common in New York City, especially in the Bronx. Block parties were usually accompanied by music, especially funk and soul music. The early DJs at block parties began isolating the percussion breaks to hit songs, realizing that these were the most danceable and entertaining parts; this technique was then common in Jamaica (see dub music) and had spread via the substantial Jamaican immigrant community in New York City, especially the godfather of hip hop, DJ Kool Herc. Dub had arisen in Jamaica due to the influence of American sailors and radio stations playing R&B. Large sound systems were set up to accommodate poor Jamaicans, who couldn't afford to buy records, and dub developed at the sound systems (refers to both the system and the parties that evolved around them).
Herc was one of the most popular DJs in early 70s New York, and he quickly switched from using reggae records to funk, rock and, later, disco, since the New York audience did not particularly like reggae. Because the percussive breaks were generally short, Herc and other DJs began extending them using an audio mixer and two records. Mixing and scratching techniques eventually developed along with the breaks. (The same techniques contributed to the popularization of remixes.)
As in dub, performers began speaking while the music played; these were originally called MCs; Herc focused primarily on DJing, and began working with two MCs, Coke La Rock and Clark Kent—this was the first emcee crew, Kool Herc & the Herculoids. Originally, these early rappers focused on introducing themselves and others in the audience (the origin of the still common practice of "shouting out" on hip hop records). These early performers often emceed for hours at a time, with some improvisation and a simple four-count beat, along with a basic chorus to allow the performer to gather his thoughts Later, the MCs incorporating brief rhymes
These early raps incorporated similar rhyming lyrics from African American culture, such as the dozens. While Kool Herc & the Herculoids were the first hip hoppers to gain major fame in New York, more emcee teams quickly sprouted up. Frequently, these were collaborations between former gang members, such as Afrika Bambaataa's Universal Zulu Nation (now a large, international organization). During the early 1970s, breakdancing arose during block parties.
now... If you listen to 50s rock and today's rock... it did evolve (think Elvis and Metallica)
if you listen to RnB... same thing (think The Commodores and Boys to Men)
Country... same thing
Jazz... same thing
All music styles are evolving... even classical music evolved...
Why would Hiphop be the only one not to?
FistFulloDollaz
ILLIEN
sYgMa said:
I know those other genres evolved somewhat, but they still stuck to the basics (instruments used)....guitar,bass,keys,drums....etc.
someone like Just Blaze is next level evolved sampling style hip hop (basics=turntables)
basic hiphop=turntables,basic hiphop=turntables, basic hiphop=turntables...get it yet
Jazze Pha, Neptunes, Scott Storch, Lil John... I think not, they are evolving a whole nother style or genre
.........they may be in the OCEAN but they not in the same boat
the closest muzik that they can identify with is hip hop yes, but is it hip hop basics hell no
anonymous_103
ILLIEN
DJ Excellence said:
i didnt say that they arent sample based producers
Originally Posted by anonymous_103
"so you mean to tell me that every beat produced by J-dilla, pete rock, dre, hi-tek, nicolay, a grip of old school defjam tracks, and the roots that didnt involve a sample isnt hip hop? "
i said that they have made beats WITHOUT samples. they all actually do both.
Vince
2Cool2BeAHebrew
sYgMa said:
You said "From NY, if I recall". If you don't even know for sure that it started out in Bronx, NY with DJ Kool Herc then there's no point of even discussing this further with you. Since you don't know anything about the history of hip-hop.
sYgMa said:
Hip-Hop music isn't something for everyone to define, it already is defined.
sYgMa said:
Sorry, but I get fired up when people don't appriciate hip-hop, which you obviously don't. If you did you wouldn't be forced to copy and paste "the history of hip-hop" from another website.
Seoul P said:
Dude, you represent everything that's wrong with hip-hop at the moment. IT ISN'T ALL HIP-HOP.
Who the hell would say that Elvis and Metallica belongs in the same genre? And try to tell a soul-head that The Commodores and Boyz II Men is the same thing and you'll get eaten up, man. Ever heard of New Jack Swing/New Jack RnB/Swingbeat? No, because he'd probably tell you that Boyz II Men belongs in that genre. He'd probably tell you that Commodores are Northen Soul/Motown Soul, so NO. They're not the same. One may have evolved from the other, just as crunk may have evolved from hip-hop music, but it isn't the same thing, nor should it be "bundled" up as one thing.sYgMa said:
I mean, seriously man. Instead of debating with me, get your ass from that Synth of yours and cop some vinyl, but most importantly. Learn the history of Hip-Hop. How the hell are you gonna take it to "the next level" and help it "evolve" when you don't even know what it's about?
I realize that I might come off as arrogant, and that some people may be offended. Especially thoose I've "attacked" a bit harder, like Sygma. But I don't have a problem with anyone personally and it's not my intention to "attack" anyone or to be rude.
SeveredTies
ILLIEN
Vince,
Your posts always make me laugh.... Sometimes I don't agree with you, but this is one issue that we share the same ideas on.
Your posts always make me laugh.... Sometimes I don't agree with you, but this is one issue that we share the same ideas on.
FistFulloDollaz
ILLIEN
Vince said:
thank you Vince I was tired of trying
thats exactly what I'm saying all these people want to bundle the shit together when its not the same
Elementree
Musical Wizardry
I have a couple of questions and since this is my thread,I think I'm entitled.
First of all I wnt to say fuck all you haters, I said "Real Time" because I ment REAL instruments REALLY being played. NO ONE ELSE EVER SAY "REAL TIME" again. I have started it, YES I KNOW, but I was stoned out of my mind and couldn't think of what to call a, I guess the term is now, COMPOSED BEAT.
All you sample heads are freaking out here. This is my thread and I asked what you prefer. I didn't ask what was the definition of HIP HOP. No one really cares about what anybodys definition of hip hop is. Thats why hip hop is constantly changing and growing. I get sick and tired of the same MPC heads who won't turn their old Gangstarr tapes off.
Hip Hop evolves, just as any other style of music has.
I LOVE SAMPLED BEATS. I think they have a great grimey, street sound. And they also can be beutiful and clean at times. But I think composed beats are great as well. They make up the spectrum for hip hop and allow it to become more musical and grow.
Cats think that because I dont use a sampler to make my beats I'm not true hip-hop, or I don't know hip hops background. Hip Hop was built on BATTLE. The argument between Shan and KRS over where hip hop had really started, The Early Beefs, The MC contests. Hip Hop was built on creativity. What Cat could pull off the newest thing to get the people on their feet. What cat could oversise the next with a new rhyme style or a new beat style to get the crowd goin. That is why people like me and others will never believe that wer'e not as true hip hop because we make our BEATS different ways. Hip hOP is everchanging and growing and that's what makes it interesting to me. Its cats like some of you who are stifling the growth of hip-hop tryin to bring other producer cats down. Everybody should encourage another as a producer. Despite what anybody says, even though you dont need musical training to work a sampler, your still a musician. Just like me , just like Pharrell, Scott Storch, Primo, Premier, KWEST.
I post positive feedback on alot of cats site's who do sampling, because I love it, Ilove the sound. But still all I see is hate from most of these cats. I have a sampler, and I make sampled beats, but a composed beat to me, gives me a sense of achievement, ya know, knowin that I didnt just chop up some other cats music, I made my own.
Just me though,
Holla Back
Cincinnatti, OH.
First of all I wnt to say fuck all you haters, I said "Real Time" because I ment REAL instruments REALLY being played. NO ONE ELSE EVER SAY "REAL TIME" again. I have started it, YES I KNOW, but I was stoned out of my mind and couldn't think of what to call a, I guess the term is now, COMPOSED BEAT.
All you sample heads are freaking out here. This is my thread and I asked what you prefer. I didn't ask what was the definition of HIP HOP. No one really cares about what anybodys definition of hip hop is. Thats why hip hop is constantly changing and growing. I get sick and tired of the same MPC heads who won't turn their old Gangstarr tapes off.
Hip Hop evolves, just as any other style of music has.
I LOVE SAMPLED BEATS. I think they have a great grimey, street sound. And they also can be beutiful and clean at times. But I think composed beats are great as well. They make up the spectrum for hip hop and allow it to become more musical and grow.
Cats think that because I dont use a sampler to make my beats I'm not true hip-hop, or I don't know hip hops background. Hip Hop was built on BATTLE. The argument between Shan and KRS over where hip hop had really started, The Early Beefs, The MC contests. Hip Hop was built on creativity. What Cat could pull off the newest thing to get the people on their feet. What cat could oversise the next with a new rhyme style or a new beat style to get the crowd goin. That is why people like me and others will never believe that wer'e not as true hip hop because we make our BEATS different ways. Hip hOP is everchanging and growing and that's what makes it interesting to me. Its cats like some of you who are stifling the growth of hip-hop tryin to bring other producer cats down. Everybody should encourage another as a producer. Despite what anybody says, even though you dont need musical training to work a sampler, your still a musician. Just like me , just like Pharrell, Scott Storch, Primo, Premier, KWEST.
I post positive feedback on alot of cats site's who do sampling, because I love it, Ilove the sound. But still all I see is hate from most of these cats. I have a sampler, and I make sampled beats, but a composed beat to me, gives me a sense of achievement, ya know, knowin that I didnt just chop up some other cats music, I made my own.
Just me though,
Holla Back
Cincinnatti, OH.
FistFulloDollaz
ILLIEN
Elementree said:
damn u must have got your toes stepped on, dont be mad
our opinions wont stop ur money so fuck it
u did ask what we preferred and when you got the answer u got mad
.....the only reason we started giving the def. of hip hop was cuz cats was actin like they didnt know and was making bogus statements
Vince
2Cool2BeAHebrew
You didn't read my post, or maybe I'm not making sense.
Yeah, it'll evolve. But it won't stay hip-hop forever. Just as Jazz has evolved into Latin jazz, which again can be seperated into other sub-genres such as Afro-cuban jazz or Brazilian jazz. All I ask is that you don't run around saying that it's all hip-hop, because it ain't.
Even though you wrote some flattering things about sampling before. THAT's just a huge shit on hip-hop music and the whole culture.
Yeah, Primo and Premier, my TWO favorite producers...oh, wait...what?
Elementree said:
Yeah, it'll evolve. But it won't stay hip-hop forever. Just as Jazz has evolved into Latin jazz, which again can be seperated into other sub-genres such as Afro-cuban jazz or Brazilian jazz. All I ask is that you don't run around saying that it's all hip-hop, because it ain't.
Elementree said:
Even though you wrote some flattering things about sampling before. THAT's just a huge shit on hip-hop music and the whole culture.
Elementree said:
Yeah, Primo and Premier, my TWO favorite producers...oh, wait...what?
Elementree
Musical Wizardry
What was the genre called when Mos Def spit on a Swizz Beats track-composed
or that one genre when jay was spittin on all those pharrell tracks-composed
or, hold on even better, the genre when dre spit on his own track- composed
Your gonna need to write a book for all thes sub-genres and genres because me and everybody I know call these genres hip hop.
Wait!!!! Common wasn't a hip hop artist when he spit on half of the tracks with Jaydee, and the tracks from pharrell.
THE LIST GOES ON.
Stop tryin to be Websters dictionary man. Even websters dictionary gets updated that doesnt mean we have to change the genre. An artist can therefore be a Hip Hop, Jazz, Rock, Rap, Gangsta Rap, Disco, Soul, R+B artist all in one record???? how would you place things in record stores????
GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF MAN. eXPAND YOUR MIND. PUT DOWN YOUR DUSTY VINAL FOR ONCE. TRY NEW THINGS. BE AN INFLUENCE I HIP HOP, NOT A DISCOURAGEMENT.
peace
CINCINNATTI, OH.
or that one genre when jay was spittin on all those pharrell tracks-composed
or, hold on even better, the genre when dre spit on his own track- composed
Your gonna need to write a book for all thes sub-genres and genres because me and everybody I know call these genres hip hop.
Wait!!!! Common wasn't a hip hop artist when he spit on half of the tracks with Jaydee, and the tracks from pharrell.
THE LIST GOES ON.
Stop tryin to be Websters dictionary man. Even websters dictionary gets updated that doesnt mean we have to change the genre. An artist can therefore be a Hip Hop, Jazz, Rock, Rap, Gangsta Rap, Disco, Soul, R+B artist all in one record???? how would you place things in record stores????
GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF MAN. eXPAND YOUR MIND. PUT DOWN YOUR DUSTY VINAL FOR ONCE. TRY NEW THINGS. BE AN INFLUENCE I HIP HOP, NOT A DISCOURAGEMENT.
peace
CINCINNATTI, OH.
anonymous_103
ILLIEN
so how bout that airline food huh?
1st Official
Beatmaker
Sampled
Vince said:
if i wrote my own song id feel pretty fuckin good about it too. probably more than if i chopped up a sample.
whats wrong with that?
you can hate on me and say im not "hip hop" but fuck it if hip hop is being sampled 100% and never composing then thats great ill be a musician. i dont need to be "real hip hop" aslong as i express myself thats fine with me.
the way most of you guys are "defining" hip hop is based on opinion.
the friggin clouds didnt open one day and god stood there with some records and a sampler and say let there be hip hop lol i mean come on, get a grip.
and lets say you sampled a song that was in c major scale and it had no chords or anything. just a simply melody.
now you chop those up into single notes and make a new melody thats exactly ( and dont try to say its not because it is, im right on this and you know it) the same as if you sat a piano and wrote the same melody. all your using is a different instrument.
anonymous_103
ILLIEN
screw all this bickering. i say we all just go to orange county and have a dance off like on "you got therved". aint no one getting no where so we might as well repect the next mans opinion as much as we want them to respect ours...............................ps my opinion is right though.
MarkN
ILLIEN
anonymous_103 said:
whats quite funny is that every producer you have listed there uses samples !
Elementree said:
LOL you really bashed hip hop a beat there ! how are you guna claim to love hip hop and then say i didn't just chop up somebody elses record ! that statement you made isnt close minded then ? LOL
i don't have a problem with people who make composed beats sometimes i make composed beats sometimes i add to samples im using and sometimes i just sample ! i PREFER sampled beats becuase imo they sound better and whether you get mad about it or not it IS the original sound of hip hop !
The use of samples is till growing and expanding because better equipment comes out and people are becoming more creative with using them !
anybody who says music cant progress if people use samples or that using a sample restricts creativity is obviously not a very good sampler or ignorant !
anonymous_103
ILLIEN
MarkN said:
whats even funnier is that your the second person who didnt understand that. where did isay that they never use samples? i said the they have made beats without samples.
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