Clipping above my mixing IQ

[crosstevsky]

I guess i could have switched the kick or something but i want to understand why this is happening...I got distorted clipping by just applying little eq boost...my meters are in the green...I don't know...It bothered me so much I even recorded my screen and posted on youtube...any explanation why is this?

 

[2GooD Productions]

i think it could be due a resonance at the frequency you boosted, when you boost a resonant frequency, that could be caused by the room it was recorded in, is that they seem to get louder a lot quicker than frequecies that arent resonant. Using SPAN, you can isolate resonant frequencies and use an eq to cut them, it can be a bit of work, worth the time doing sometimes just to get the experience, but I would consider changing the kick for one that doesnt have the resonance.Looking at the video Id suggest you cut below 30-40hz on the kick, you still have a lot of energy where you put the cut, Id cut some more, when boosting one frequency you often have to cut another to compensate

 

[crosstevsky]

i dont know where the clipping is from...its in the green all time and yet still is clipping...

 

[2GooD Productions]

i dont know where the clipping is from...its in the green all time and yet still is clipping...

look at the spectrum analyser you can see where its going over the top

 

[2GooD Productions]

just wondering if you have any other plugs on that channel like a limiter that will hide the fact its going into the red

 

[crosstevsky]

no that's it...just the eq...i didn't know that you can clip the signal like that...by just boosting one freuency over the top, i'm confused...the channel is in the green...you can digitally clip a signal by not going over 0db?

 

[2GooD Productions]

the eq looks to be the cause of the clipping just by watching the video, to get the most out of the kick you really do need to cut the unnecessary lows, the dip you have put in there just doesnt seem to be enough to prevent the frequency going off the scale. Because the actual channel isnt clipping I can only assume the clipping is happening inside the eq only. Seems a bit strange but hey

 

[crosstevsky]

@2GooD Productions I think i will end up switching the kick after all...i was just curious of the explanation...thank you very much...

 

[Iron Keys]

Any chance you're clipping in your plugins ??

If you (for example) load a sample that hits -1dB, even if you drop your fader by 10db, when you boost that sample by more than 1db in a plug in, you will be pushing that signal into clipping within the plugin.

 

[Iron Keys]

Here's an idea... i dont know how your freeze function works. But potentially it's freezing pre-fader so the track level+fader remains the same.

If this is the case then it is likely as I said before that you clipping in your plugin due to the signal already being too hot.

If you send a 0db signal into an eq and boost anything you clip the signal... you can turn the fader down but you're turning down a clipped signal.

 

[Iron Keys]

If you're still unsure look into "gain staging" or "digital gain staging".

 

[crosstevsky]

Thank you @Iron Keys I will look in to it...I'm familiar with gain staging...The plugin clipping that you talking about, makes sense...I just thought that clipping like that would occur only if you clip the channel not the plug in itself....

 

[Iron Keys]

Thank you @Iron Keys I will look in to it...I'm familiar with gain staging...The plugin clipping that you talking about, makes sense...I just thought that clipping like that would occur only if you clip the channel not the plug in itself....

yeah it's something you never really think to think about. I think first time i started realising it is because some plugins have a little light for clipping and some arw more obvious than others.

If my sample is hot i turn the sampler output down by maybe 4db at least.

Also have to consider vst synths outputs too... i had onewhere the presets were already clipping out the vst

 

[crosstevsky]

Yes... I got to pay more attention to gain controls(on effects and instruments)...also i realised some of the samples i got from the internet are already pushed too hard...

 

[YannFer]

I guess i could have switched the kick or something but i want to understand why this is happening...I got distorted clipping by just applying little eq boost...my meters are in the green...I don't know...It bothered me so much I even recorded my screen and posted on youtube...any explanation why is this?

I was curious about your question but I'm too unfamiliar with Ableton to know for sure... But I came accross this video


It seems to be about your issue. At 1'20'' guy says the volume running to your EQ is pre-fader, as @Iron Keys said . Looking at your background grey area it looks clipping and if it's pre-fader it is normal your channel VUmetre remains green because it is then lowered by 10db...

Your bounce/render/freeze function is pre-fader... so you can't trust your channel VU, that's why the tiny VU metres on the sides of your EQ are for I guess.

 

[YannFer]

I like to think of gain staging as a guitarist. Meaning, looking at all the several gain stages that happen in the chain.
An EQ boost is a gain stage. Like a boost pedal can distort a guitar signal. If the signal gets distorted, lowering the amp at the end of the chain does not make it a clean signal. A simplistic analogy, I reckon but it's really interacting the same way.
The difference is that digital clipping is unwanted, whereas clipping a guitar signal is what I call "Life".

 

[2GooD Productions]

I like to think of gain staging as a guitarist. Meaning, looking at all the several gain stages that happen in the chain.
An EQ boost is a gain stage. Like a boost pedal can distort a guitar signal. If the signal gets distorted, lowering the amp at the end of the chain does not make it a clean signal. A simplistic analogy, I reckon but it's really interacting the same way.
The difference is that digital clipping is unwanted, whereas clipping a guitar signal is what I call "Life".

I think the term gain staging is a pretty recent one. But yes you are right, clipping anywhere in the digital realm is bad, clipping in the analog realm not so bad. Which is why we have tube or tape saturation to recreate analog clipping which can sound warm and add a nice tone.

 

[YannFer]

I think the term gain staging is a pretty recent one. But yes you are right, clipping anywhere in the digital realm is bad, clipping in the analog realm not so bad. Which is why we have tube or tape saturation to recreate analog clipping which can sound warm and add a nice tone.

Now I want to experiment something... I will make a beat and reamp ALL my tracks into some pedals and amps to see how dirty I can get it, but good dirty.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Now I want to experiment something... I will make a beat and reamp ALL my tracks into some pedals and amps to see how dirty I can get it, but good dirty.

might end up a bit muddy with all those saturated frequencies. Could be a mixing nightmare hahahahaha
good luck

 

[YannFer]

might end up a bit muddy with all those saturated frequencies. Could be a mixing nightmare hahahahaha
good luck

Yep. Now that I'm re-thinking it, I will do it on a beat with fewer tracks and keep some clean track and just use the reamped one parallel.
But that snare will run through that fuzz !
It probably will sound better before than after, but I need to learn my way through cubase, don't I ? That will be a good exercise anyway.