Clearing Samples (for the underground artist)

[Chrono]

whatup ill,

I just read an article on clearing samples. There are a few things that should be cleared when using any sample from anyone's music. These negotiations could end up costing the producer quiet a bit in the end.

For many of us, we are producing our own music or for our own artists. Although, we have not made any/much money or created a name for ourselves that would assure a placement in the market (sells).

In clearing these samples.. we could look anywhere from a few thousand to tens of thousands in sample clearance. Even re-creating the sample is not an option as far as the publisher is concerned.

Should we, as mostly-broke unknown artists, avoid using samples? How do you approach this as a budding producer?

 

[Relic]

Let me take this a step further, many kits are exchanged on the internet, drums, sounds and so forth, say you make an original composition from a kit you just "got" somewhere, do these guys have the right to later go and sue you because you used their kik or snare or hh or noise w/out paying for it in advance?

Because THAT is gonna cause a problem!

 

[Fury]

Noo!!!!!

 

[Relic]

I have noticed that though, furious one, that some of the cracked or torrented sounds or cd's that are out there state:
"if you like this be sure to buy it" then of course there are disclaimers on the "packaging" that say that you can only use those products if you have purchased them.
Others say that you CANT use them for any commercial purposes (which is stupid).Why sell it then?

My thing has always been , if we start makin $$ Ill buy the product

 

[2GooD Productions]

I have known for a long time about the pitfalls of sampling, the costs of clearance etc.
It was that that drove me to try and just compose tracks, but after joining ill I realised in the flippage section that sampling is integral to getting the true hiphop sound.

If you are going to release a track to sell that contains samples, the advice ive read is that you must get them cleared. It is up to the producer to so I have also read.
I personally do not sell tracks that are sample based, not at least until I can get the samples cleared.
But most of my best hiphop tracks are sample based, the composed stuff generally has a soundtrackyness to it that I cant avoid.
I still live in hope that an artist will pick up a sampled track and the label will deal with getting it cleared. It does still happen. But with the whole way the industry is changing from top to bottom nothing is really certain right now.
What is certain is that people are being sued for copyright infingment, and unauthorized sample usage.
But that is usually when the track makes a lot of money and is worth persuing for the sample rights owners.
And using a sample in one track on an album gives the owners of the sampled track to get a large slice of the profit from the whole album, especially if they can argue that it was that track that made the album a success.

With southern style hiphop I have seen a rise in Composed hiphop and less sample usage, this is a ploy by the labels to cut expenses and maximise return on investment, as some samples have cleared for a hell of a lot of money. I dread to think how much the sample clearance costs for anything that Lil Wayne or Fiddy or any other big earner would be.

It is the rising sample clearance costs that has caused the rift in hiphop, and with hiphop becoming less of a big money earner(the whole hiphop is dead bullshit), it has changed the face and sound of hiphop.

Thats my opinion, some would argue that as long as the sampled track doesnt make lots of money then there is no reason for the copyright owner to pursue a case. On the basis you cant sue a man that has no money.
Thats your choice to make.

 

[Relic]

But what do you think of having to clear sounds?

 

[2GooD Productions]

With sounds and sample packs, you have to know where every sound has come from and must be accounted for.
Especially if the sample is plain to hear. I have heard Madlib say that he has never cleared a sample, and hes never been sued, but he really does make things pretty unrecognisable.
You run the risk if you use soundpacks that you dont have a receipt for. I havent read of anyone being prosecuted for using sounds from a soundpack but that certainly doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
The whole idea of soundpacks is that you purchase the right to use them royalty free.
If you dont purchase them then you havent purchased the rights, thats the legal standing of it basically.
The rest is if you are unlucky enough to get caught.

 

[Relic]

My thing here is with sample packs, lots of people are just repackaging them and reselling them, and bloody few can tell the diff!
So if you bought something thats 3rd generation flipped that originated at gotchanoddin.com and have no idea, then go on to make a hit then what, how the hell do they prove "NO! Thats OUR clappy snare!" ?
Or alternatively how would you have known to buy the original , you thinkn that you already have.

 

[Chrono]

I have known for a long time about the pitfalls of sampling, the costs of clearance etc.
It was that that drove me to try and just compose tracks, but after joining ill I realised in the flippage section that sampling is integral to getting the true hiphop sound.

If you are going to release a track to sell that contains samples, the advice ive read is that you must get them cleared. It is up to the producer to so I have also read.
I personally do not sell tracks that are sample based, not at least until I can get the samples cleared.
But most of my best hiphop tracks are sample based, the composed stuff generally has a soundtrackyness to it that I cant avoid.
I still live in hope that an artist will pick up a sampled track and the label will deal with getting it cleared. It does still happen. But with the whole way the industry is changing from top to bottom nothing is really certain right now.
What is certain is that people are being sued for copyright infingment, and unauthorized sample usage.
But that is usually when the track makes a lot of money and is worth persuing for the sample rights owners.
And using a sample in one track on an album gives the owners of the sampled track to get a large slice of the profit from the whole album, especially if they can argue that it was that track that made the album a success.

With southern style hiphop I have seen a rise in Composed hiphop and less sample usage, this is a ploy by the labels to cut expenses and maximise return on investment, as some samples have cleared for a hell of a lot of money. I dread to think how much the sample clearance costs for anything that Lil Wayne or Fiddy or any other big earner would be.

It is the rising sample clearance costs that has caused the rift in hiphop, and with hiphop becoming less of a big money earner(the whole hiphop is dead bullshit), it has changed the face and sound of hiphop.

Thats my opinion, some would argue that as long as the sampled track doesnt make lots of money then there is no reason for the copyright owner to pursue a case. On the basis you cant sue a man that has no money.
Thats your choice to make.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.


hey Rel: certainly there is a point where the sound of a drumstick hitting a snare is transformed into a designed sound that could be recogonized. I would think "designed" sounds could be copyrighted.. but at the same time.. if you sample a single drum from a Commadore's intro (drum alone, untransformed) then it would be no different that the begining of a horn or anything else, thus copyrighted. Hairy business..

I wonder how many people are dropping "free" "designer drums" drums on the internet that are actually patented and then sit back and monitor the released tracks for their sounds... so to sue and turn a major profit. Athough, I doubt a major producer would be copping drums from a blog, who knows though..


i'm interested in what more have to say about this.

 

[Relic]

Im thinking that by the time you and I finish manipulating this, then swivel finishes mixing it, then it would be hard to tell and prove to a jury that it was yours.

 

[2GooD Productions]

My thing here is with sample packs, lots of people are just repackaging them and reselling them, and bloody few can tell the diff!
So if you bought something thats 3rd generation flipped that originated at gotchanoddin.com and have no idea, then go on to make a hit then what, how the hell do they prove "NO! Thats OUR clappy snare!" ?
Or alternatively how would you have known to buy the original , you thinkn that you already have.

Thats why when I compose music I just use the reason factory soundbank. Its so much simpler that way.
I would like to have a hardware synth or a workstation to generate the sounds, but for now I use reason soundbank. I try not to use any samplepacks, except for drum hits.
There comes a point when if used in a certain way, its practically impossible to tell where a sample came from.
The clearance costs of a sample are based on 2 things, what the potential revenue of the track using the sample is, depends on whos using the sample there, and also on how much the new track samples the original.
Sample clearance has to be confirmed by all the artists that share the rights, there could be a few, and if one objects then you cant use the sample.

 

[DJ Excellence]

Unless you're well known in the game and sell beats to gold and platinum artists , why bother ? Nobody will catch you.

Should we, as mostly-broke unknown artists, avoid using samples? How do you approach this as a budding producer?

 

[2GooD Productions]

I wouldnt let the legalities of sample clearance worry you if you are just starting out.
Sampling is an artform and one any self respecting hiphop producer needs to learn, its only when you start making waves(and money) in the industry that anyone will bother claiming damages.

 

[Chrono]

I wouldnt let the legalities of sample clearance worry you if you are just starting out.
Sampling is an artform and one any self respecting hiphop producer needs to learn, its only when you start making waves(and money) in the industry that anyone will bother claiming damages.

good. i have been working on things and am not using anything more than one-second hits across the mpc.. so if I ever did need to transform these legally I could pretty much replace them by imitating the original cut-up sample. I know imitating is not legal but it would not be anything at all recognizable from the original since it's so cut up.

I have attempted imitating 7 second loops before (that contained multiple instruments) and it is an art in itself to tweak synths and choose instruments to re-create the original. I think this skill is very worth practicing up on though.. even considering it's illegal to recreate recognizable loops.

thanks 2good and djEx

 

[Kontents]

When getting a drum kit or sound kit, do you not modify the kit to your liking? I mess with mine to ensure its the sound I want. How they gonna know that you have their kit? ??? its drums.

Samples from records is part of the roots of hip hop and its sad to see that its going to be the biggest pain to clear just to make hip hop music. I would say sample yourself and wave the middle finger to everyone else.

 

[Krazyfingaz]

I would say sample yourself and wave the middle finger to everyone else.

I consign!

 

[slik da relic]

whatup ill,

I just read an article on clearing samples. There are a few things that should be cleared when using any sample from anyone's music. These negotiations could end up costing the producer quiet a bit in the end.

For many of us, we are producing our own music or for our own artists. Although, we have not made any/much money or created a name for ourselves that would assure a placement in the market (sells).

In clearing these samples.. we could look anywhere from a few thousand to tens of thousands in sample clearance. Even re-creating the sample is not an option as far as the publisher is concerned.

Should we, as mostly-broke unknown artists, avoid using samples? How do you approach this as a budding producer?

there are 2 things u need to do:

1) buy the game Twister, which is my favorite game with females :d:

2) watch Slik dA Relic vids: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=slikdarelic&p=r and tell the industry to go fukk themselves, bcuz uve found a way to avoid the bullshit!

da relic

 

[Chrono]

there are 2 things u need to do:

1) buy the game Twister, which is my favorite game with females :d:

2) watch Slik dA Relic vids: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=slikdarelic&p=r and tell the industry to go fukk themselves, bcuz uve found a way to avoid the bullshit!

da relic

nice collection of vids.
that street fighter sync was crazy, also which one of your videos would you recommend? the first one didn't have much to do about sampling your own compositions (although i didn't watch all of it). you have many videos and i have little time, which one do you recommend?
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Kontents: Yeah, this is why I have been practicing piano and guitar/bass. There are other types of music besides hiphop that I have been working on so I am planning on sampling that. Earlier this week I was listening to a song by Midnight Marauders and then the very next song was from 21&over (alkoholiks) and in both of them "clearing their samples" was mentioned. It was odd cause I don't remember hearing anyone talking about clearing their samples and then we got two early90's groups in a row talking about clearing their shit before they dropped their albums.. so it had me thinking about two instrumentals I made months back that were sample heavy.

 

[slik da relic]

watch them in this order:


1) RS7000 sawtooth wave tutorial

2) RS7000 portamento

3) Slik dA Relic 3 beats, 1sample

4) Slik dA Relic and his RS7000

5) RS7000 quiktorial

6) Slik dA Relic and the RS is BACK!!!

and, 7) dA Relic's Sampling tutorials 1 thru 6

after u watch those make sure u come back to ILL and say FUKK THA INDUSTRY!!!!

da relic

 

[mono]

i guess as long as your not buzz enough to have labels clear stuff for you, nobody will give a fuck anyway.

but, what i was always wondering, you think guys like o.c./street smartz/lyrikul etc did always clear their samples? you know, mcees and producers with a name in the scene but with no radio airplay or mtv appearance?! i dont think so, dont know for sure though...