Chuck D talkin' bout hiphop production

[open mind]

PRODUCTION VS EMCEES As I sign off on this T-dome with the point of how lopsided the relationship of song creation is in hip hop. Usually the producer gives the rapper a bare track with little changes other than a loop. The rapper performs on this loop and the producer goes from that point to embellish the track around the vocal. This process is 95% on how it's done from the 1980's. This is one of the fundamental problems with producers in hip hop. Few if any present complete musical songs that can influence a certain ad lib or inflection. Thus the rapper has to pretend and foresee the possibility of the track being at its best without actually being at its best. But producers always want the best vocal performance. This akin to a person making love to someone who's head is in a paper bag so they can pretend that person's somebody else.

In the 1960's Motown cut the full tracks in its entirety; verse, chorus and bridge with very skilled musicians playing with and competing against each other on each instrument. This telepathy often brought magic to a track that can't be explained other than feel. Thus the vocal was inspired to the highest ebb. STAX cut the vocals in the same room at the same time creating ad lib spontaneity on both the music and vocal. It's why emcees nowadays choose other records to rhyme off. It's beyond 'beats'. And it's something that today's producers need to realize. Everybody cannot be 'Prince', a cat who knows many instruments and how to play with and against them. Just my opinion that the music has suffered on both fronts because of individualism, but somehow producers think they're exempt from hip hop's demise. Bring back songwriting and production teams ...


source: http://www.publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page3

 

[open mind]

oops sorry wrong section. can a mod plz turn this threat into the resource section? and then delete this post here.


thanks.

 

[Haze47]

PRODUCTION VS EMCEES As I sign off on this T-dome with the point of how lopsided the relationship of song creation is in hip hop. Usually the producer gives the rapper a bare track with little changes other than a loop. The rapper performs on this loop and the producer goes from that point to embellish the track around the vocal. This process is 95% on how it's done from the 1980's. This is one of the fundamental problems with producers in hip hop. Few if any present complete musical songs that can influence a certain ad lib or inflection. Thus the rapper has to pretend and foresee the possibility of the track being at its best without actually being at its best. But producers always want the best vocal performance. This akin to a person making love to someone who's head is in a paper bag so they can pretend that person's somebody else.

In the 1960's Motown cut the full tracks in its entirety; verse, chorus and bridge with very skilled musicians playing with and competing against each other on each instrument. This telepathy often brought magic to a track that can't be explained other than feel. Thus the vocal was inspired to the highest ebb. STAX cut the vocals in the same room at the same time creating ad lib spontaneity on both the music and vocal. It's why emcees nowadays choose other records to rhyme off. It's beyond 'beats'. And it's something that today's producers need to realize. Everybody cannot be 'Prince', a cat who knows many instruments and how to play with and against them. Just my opinion that the music has suffered on both fronts because of individualism, but somehow producers think they're exempt from hip hop's demise. Bring back songwriting and production teams ...


source: http://www.publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page3

word to the last statement.....i dont even like public enemy tho....

 

[Relic]

I belong to the site, big PE fan, Chuck as usual is on his thing!

 

[TheDeen]

I didn't know there were cats that didn't like PE.

 

[dahkter]

i dont even like public enemy tho....

totally entitled to your taste, but not liking PE and being a hip hop producer is similar to being a rock guitarist and not liking Jimmy Page. Just kind of strange IMO...

 

[Lazy Eyes]

totally entitled to your taste, but not liking PE and being a hip hop producer is similar to being a rock guitarist and not liking Jimmy Page. Just kind of strange IMO...

That's not totally true, although i respect what PE has done for hiphop and the sound they brought with "it takes a nation of millions" I never really liked PE that much..

It was rough and raw, yeah i have to give em that... and they were pioneers, but other than that, i don't really like the type of hiphop they brought to the table..

It lacked the soul that i so desperately need in music.. But I have to give em props for what they did.. !!

One,

Lazy

 

[dahkter]

That's not totally true, although i respect what PE has done for hiphop and the sound they brought with "it takes a nation of millions" I never really liked PE that much..

It was rough and raw, yeah i have to give em that... and they were pioneers, but other than that, i don't really like the type of hiphop they brought to the table..

It lacked the soul that i so desperately need in music.. But I have to give em props for what they did.. !!

One,

Lazy

Understood, realize I'm soundin a bit preachy. I gotta say that as a DJ, It was always difficult to play PE and keep people on the dance floor. Only record they had that worked well was "can't do nuttin for ya man".

But as a listener, I do indeed think they are amazing (and soulful too). IMO of course.

PEACE

PS - One other interesting note, you guys are from the UK, your country was big on PE before the U.S. was! Listen to the first track on Nation of Millions, London was crazy for PE...

 

[Fury]

im not a big PE fan either

 

[DJ Increment]

PE was the shit !!!!!!hands down back in tthe good ol days!!!i guest ya had ta b there!!!

 

[Haze47]

guess im too young for that shit....too old skool for me, and im an old skool head!!!

 

[dahkter]

honestly bro, you can't flip a sample and not have been influenced by PE.
The Bomb Squad were 100% original in their style and sound.
Sometimes they would be playing a record they'd want to sample, decide it wasn't crackly enough, take the record off the turntable, put it on the floor, put their foot over it and rub it back and forth on the ground just to give it more crackle.
Nowadays you got "vinyl noise" effects in all of these groove boxes, that's a direct result of that PE sound.
Now that all you young cats are making your own beats, you owe it to take a listen to Nation of Millions from Front to back, check out the dynamics, the # of samples they'd layer on one track, plus the drum programming.
Twenty years later the engineering and production is better than 99% of all hip hop made since IMO....
Keep in mind it's all before pro tools and acid, if you wanted a loop to fit, you had to pitch it up or down on the ttbl or in the sampler. Shit was not easy.
All the mixes were also hands on, no automation, they'd have three sounds on one fader, and have to flip switches from the first note to the last note, live mixing, on every song...
That's that shit that Chuck D is talking about in that post above, now that kids have recall for each mix, there's no life in the music, it all sounds sterile and too perfect...
My two
EZ

 

[StressWon]

It lacked the soul that i so desperately need in music.. But I have to give em props for what they did.. !!

One,

Lazy

They lacked soul? Chuck D's lyrics were FROM the soul bro.

PE was the shit !!!!!!hands down back in tthe good ol days!!!i guest ya had ta b there!!!

I think you may be right. It's like that wit alot of the older artists. Younger cats can't get down wit certain styles.

 

[lilhatedon]

imagine if p.e never existed what would the sound be like today? lol that is scary no soul? lol if u listen to there albums the early ones you will here alot of jb samples

 

[Quality]

I'm pretty young (17), and I like PE a lot. Chuck D paved the way. Flav put on a show at their concerts with his crazy dancing. I love old school hip hop, and PE is one of my favorites for sure.

 

[Relic]

Understood, realize I'm soundin a bit preachy. I gotta say that as a DJ, It was always difficult to play PE and keep people on the dance floor. Only record they had that worked well was "can't do nuttin for ya man".

But as a listener, I do indeed think they are amazing (and soulful too). IMO of course.

PEACE

PS - One other interesting note, you guys are from the UK, your country was big on PE before the U.S. was! Listen to the first track on Nation of Millions, London was crazy for PE...

LOL I was just thinkin that UK is like PE's no1 spot for touring!!

Shit the classic show they did in LOndon was the SHIT!! lol
Thats Ironic as fuck...
I think its cuz they are all white and therefore are trying to hold back Chuck and the S1W's ! (JK guys!)


Who stole the soul?
Right on bart5!