Best preferable way to get your track LOUD in reason W/OUT CLIPPING?

[Shonsteez]

Ive been through it a thousand times....Usually if tha end result is not to my liking, its because tha sounds themselves that were intially chosen could maybe be better ones....Or for that matter - tha mix could use improving....But even when tha mix is solid i tend to not be happy afterwards when listening to tha tracks in tha car or where ever....Its like i jus need a good couple DB's of sound more...than id be straight!?.........Thing is, ive used tha method where u can take tha channels of your Mods and then give each one its own channel to widen tha stereo field and increase tha db a bit....but then u can get clipping again which is of course undesirable....So - if i turn those sounds back down after bringin tha db's up a bit then it sounds like im right back where i started before i even bothered spreading tha channels to there own channels on tha mixer to begin with?!......

So, is there a way inside reason first to get a LOUD mix WITHOUT CLIPPING?

And if NOT, whats tha best outside prgm to shine tha bitch up and jus give it some volume without clippin tha shit outa it?....VSTs included.


Thanks....


STEEZ

 

[Shonsteez]

OK.....I jus started fuckin with CUBASE SX so i think i might jus amp my tracks in there.....I used a simple GAIN feature in tha prgm and boosted my last song by about 3db without clipping and it sounded a lot better....Hmmmmmm??......IS that tha only way?...Cant be right?

 

[DJFANTOM]

Sonar 3 has a function like that where you can boost or lower by 3db. You know I use reason also and I've been thinking the same thing how to boost the levels without clipping. But your gonna have to do it in another program like cubase or sonar.

What I do is rewire and track out the beat in sonar and mix it there.

Or if I don't feel like doing all that open the rendered .wav in wavelab 4.0 and boost the overall volume as well as adding maybe more effects and such.

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

Maybe This Will Help:

Clipping

If you don't care about digital clipping or think it sounds "phat," or "warm," or something otherwise unlike complete crap, skip this section. In fact, skip this entire tutorial.
Start at the start, hit play, and stare at the "Audio Out Clipping" LED. If it ever lights up, you know there's a problem. Clipping means that Reason is generating a signal that cannot be properly expressed in a linear, clamped PCM system (which is what your sound card, and also a .wav file, is). By linear, I mean that the string of numbers generated correspond one-to-one with the desired displacement of your speaker at that instant in time. By clamped, I mean that there is a limited range to these numbers.
To borrow a term from the movie, "This is Spinal Tap," digital clipping happens when Reason tells the audio hardware, "play this sound at 11." The audio hardware shrugs and plays it at 10 instead. Thus, what you get is not what you put in, and the result often sounds like wind breaking. The only way to fix it is to bring the signal Reason is generating back within the expressible range. In other words, you need to turn down the volume.
If you notice the clipping is happening at specific parts in the song, say when a particular instrument hits, you may be able to fix the problem entirely by bringing down that particular instrument in the mix. A compressor on that instrument may also be the solution.
If it's happening throughout the song, first try reducing the overall levels in your mixer(s). Turn your monitors or headphones up to compensate for the drop in volume, and then listen again. If you found you've lost some "punch" that the distortion from the clipping was providing, try putting a compressor as a last step before the hardware interface. Start with a midrange ratio value, between 2:1 and 4:1, a high threshold value, and a very low attack and release level. Experiment, and observe how the compressor's gain LEDs react as the audio is being played through. Look out for the distortion that a compressor can create, especially with very low (0-3) attack and release settings. You also have to be careful of introducing undesired "pumping" in the track, with attack and/or release settings that are too high. Also, just because one part of a song sounds perfect with your current compression setting, doesn't mean the entire song does. If this is the case, consider recording changes to the compressor in the main sequencer. Avoid recording changes to the bypass switch, as this can create an audible "tick" when it's switched. Ramp up and down from a zero ratio setting instead.
Be aware that compression reduces the dynamic range (i.e. the difference between the loudest and softest level) of an instrument or mix. Some genres, especially very electronic-based genres are typically heavily compressed, while others much less. Again, experimentation and comparison to professionally recorded songs will help a lot.

 

[Fade]

You can increase/decrease the volume in those programs which is good, but it's always best to record as "hot" as possible without clipping. So if you're recording yourself playing a keyboard for example, then try to get the level as close to 0 as possible without going in the red. Of course, give yourself a bit of space before reaching 0 because you don't want to get any sort of clipping at all, but you get what I'm saying.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

i didnt read wing's whole post but it sounded on point. in digital equipment there is a max output level which is 0dB and it goes down to bout -60 dB or so. in anologue equipment, it has natural tendancy to smooth off the sounds which exceed the clipping limit. thats why many like hardware better cos it has that warmer sound. with hardware, the clipping will be proportional to the amount which the max output is exceeded. with digital, you get the same terrible clipping no matter how far you go over 0dB. so basically the goal is to get your mix as close to 0dB without going over.

my teacher at SAE college told me this the other day. i might have it twisted but i think its on point.

what do you guys reckon?

 

[Shonsteez]

You can increase/decrease the volume in those programs which is good, but it's always best to record as "hot" as possible without clipping. So if you're recording yourself playing a keyboard for example, then try to get the level as close to 0 as possible without going in the red. Of course, give yourself a bit of space before reaching 0 because you don't want to get any sort of clipping at all, but you get what I'm saying.

Thanks Fade, I agree....this is tha method i use everytime, but i want it louder!!!........

 

[LMNO]

I'm still stuck on lower db. The panning works I guess, but the sample still doesn't sound as loud as when I sample it in Adobe Audition. I'm really starting to hate Reason because of that.

To the people who only use Reason, do you all just compose with your samples on lower volume?? I'd like to be able to hear the sample exactly as I sample it damn it!!!

 

[Shonsteez]

Most of my samples dont need to be boosted 99.9% of tha time....but if they do i jus use tha db gain knob in tha NNXT.....simple.

 

[mercurywaters]

question: does it sound like its clipping or is it just hitting the red? i had the same problem and i was keeping it out of the red but once i tweaked all my sounds as i normally do, they would hit the red, but they wouldn't sound distorted. a little bit of hitting the red is fine in my opinion, as long as it doesn't sound distorted.

 

[Shonsteez]

Hmmmmm????.....Let me ponder that for a bit......Seriously, unless my ears are getting bad from sittin in front of tha speakers too often, i very rarely can identify whether tha song sounds worse cuz of tha little clipping red light indicating im a crazy mad man that likes it loud!?lol.....but......I jus figured i better use that little red light a positive reference to get 0 clipping in all other stereos alike....I dunno what tha RIGHT route is at this point?!

 

[Aeast]

Clipping

If you don't care about digital clipping or think it sounds "phat," or "warm," or something otherwise unlike complete crap, skip this section. In fact, skip this entire tutorial.
Start at the start, hit play, and stare at the "Audio Out Clipping" LED. If it ever lights up, you know there's a problem. Clipping means that Reason is generating a signal that cannot be properly expressed in a linear, clamped PCM system (which is what your sound card, and also a .wav file, is). By linear, I mean that the string of numbers generated correspond one-to-one with the desired displacement of your speaker at that instant in time. By clamped, I mean that there is a limited range to these numbers.
To borrow a term from the movie, "This is Spinal Tap," digital clipping happens when Reason tells the audio hardware, "play this sound at 11." The audio hardware shrugs and plays it at 10 instead. Thus, what you get is not what you put in, and the result often sounds like wind breaking. The only way to fix it is to bring the signal Reason is generating back within the expressible range. In other words, you need to turn down the volume.
If you notice the clipping is happening at specific parts in the song, say when a particular instrument hits, you may be able to fix the problem entirely by bringing down that particular instrument in the mix. A compressor on that instrument may also be the solution.
If it's happening throughout the song, first try reducing the overall levels in your mixer(s). Turn your monitors or headphones up to compensate for the drop in volume, and then listen again. If you found you've lost some "punch" that the distortion from the clipping was providing, try putting a compressor as a last step before the hardware interface. Start with a midrange ratio value, between 2:1 and 4:1, a high threshold value, and a very low attack and release level. Experiment, and observe how the compressor's gain LEDs react as the audio is being played through. Look out for the distortion that a compressor can create, especially with very low (0-3) attack and release settings. You also have to be careful of introducing undesired "pumping" in the track, with attack and/or release settings that are too high. Also, just because one part of a song sounds perfect with your current compression setting, doesn't mean the entire song does. If this is the case, consider recording changes to the compressor in the main sequencer. Avoid recording changes to the bypass switch, as this can create an audible "tick" when it's switched. Ramp up and down from a zero ratio setting instead.
Be aware that compression reduces the dynamic range (i.e. the difference between the loudest and softest level) of an instrument or mix. Some genres, especially very electronic-based genres are typically heavily compressed, while others much less. Again, experimentation and comparison to professionally recorded songs will help a lot.

nice school lesson wings of angel you actually know what your talking about

whats your setup if you dont mind telling

hitting the red isnt always bad, digital clipping is more precise than analog but your db meter gives itself a little slack to work with (atleast most do) so just judge it by ear

 

[eka]

a friend of mine uses reason to create his patterns, renders it to wav and makes the song in fruity loops to pump it up and use different vst to alter the sounds. than mix's it in acid and masters it in wavelab. his beats sound phat and no gain problems.

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

Aeast, thanks :thumb:
[Though i must add that i haven't written it; just posted it here].

I don't mind at all; I use Reason, Recycle, Reload & Soundforge + Samples (from various sources; sample cds, vinyl, cds, tapes etc')...

Greetings,
Wings

 

[gram green]

i got a waves plugin that works pretty good L1 maximizer... i use it in cases like that where i cant get it to sound loud enough

 

[Shonsteez]

Word.....thanks for all the feedback everyone.....Basically, im happy with my music at tha levels its at, but at times i want just a little more juice without burstin my speakers....So, basically after reading what everyone else wrote and after some returning to Cubase to see what can be remedied by useing effect gains and plugins i think ive found a solid way to amp tha shits up when needed.

Thanks for tha input everyone!


STEEZO

 

[Ash Holmz]

^^^^ yeah bruh take them reason tracks.... dump em inta cubase apply the waves mutli band compressor and the l1 or the l2 if ya got it .. they will make ur shit loud as hell

 

[Ominous]

I think I read somewhere at tweakheads_com that Reason by default puts a 3db shelf for headroom on all the music bounced down out of reason.

And I know that just because you see it in the red on the clip meter doesn't mean that there is noticable audio distortion. I guess that's where those dope ass moniters you just bought will come in.