2pac - Loyal to the Game : not THAT bad

[Qwerty]

When it came out, i had high hope cuz Eminem was producing it, than it came out, i only liked 3-4 songs, and i thought the rest was crap, so I was dissapointed. But i listenned to it 2day, and it,s not that bad. True, the beats sounds a bit a like, but i think it's not as bad people think. People said it was garbage, but i think it's between average and good. What do you think of it after almost 8 months?

 

[o-a-ksavage]

i think it's between average and good.

That sounds about right. I'm not a big fan of the tupac postmortem stuff, I think it's only tarnished his legacy for the sake of a few average to good albums. But still, pac is pac, and I like him as a rapper, so yeah the album was okay.

 

[sammy beats]

I think its alright. But if you compare it to Better Dayz and Until the End of Time its definitely a disappointment. Those are two of the best albums I've ever heard. Em is alright as a producer, but his sound is pretty predictable and many of his beats have the same feel.

 

[classic]

Em sucks, ill smash that dude production wise, the fact he gots pac's saying g-unit makes the shit that much worse

classs..

 

[Rhythmikal]

Em sucks, ill smash that dude production wise,

i personally hate the album, apart from the last 3 tracks (quik, red spyda, scott storch).

class was that a serious statement^^?

sAfE.

 

[classic]

i personally hate the album, apart from the last 3 tracks (quik, red spyda, scott storch).

class was that a serious statement^^?

sAfE.

Yep, sadly it is, i have lost alot of respect fot that cat after he had pac saying thatG-unit shit, i mean he aint a garbage producer but he definaly dont deserve the attention he is getting. Alot of cats on here could smash em production wise,

Think about it, he has the best equiment and engineers in the world and his shit still sounds the same.

class..

 

[Rhythmikal]

Yep, sadly it is, i have lost alot of respect fot that cat after he had pac saying thatG-unit shit, i mean he aint a garbage producer but he definaly dont deserve the attention he is getting. Alot of cats on here could smash em production wise,

Think about it, he has the best equiment and engineers in the world and his shit still sounds the same.

class..

Yeh i understand what your sayin, though it probably comes down to audience. i mean Em would out sell anyone on here - to kids. though if ur lookin at the hardcore underground shit, members here could probably do better.

and yeh - give us his equipment + engineers + musicians and alot of Illmuzik members would probably make tighter ish.

sAfE.

 

[o-a-ksavage]

the fact he gots pac's saying g-unit makes the shit that much worse
classs..

Pac started in G-Unit. You didn't know?

 

[Fury]

EM needs to stop wit the beats..its not like hes that serious cuz of that his career as a rapper is dead...i dont like em but hey i knoe whos nice and whos not...

 

[Cold Truth]

no...not even with em's gear... or his musicians... a lot of us are better then he is without all that.... the fact is em's beats only sell because he is who he is... thats the only reason..... ems beats are garbage... GARBAGE... like bad... garbage.... trash....shit.... need i go on?

most of us here are MUCH better then he is..... lets not get it twisted because he would "outsell" us..... because there are plenty of other factors involved here..... it aint like his self produced "hits" are all over artists outside his camp either..... name one record outside his camp that sold well as a single... his camp sells because he is a part o fit, because he ios the headlining artist.... now by his camp i say d 12/obie.... aint one of his 50 beats highlights.... none of his nas/jay although renegade seems to get a lot of love... but his beats still arent selling points to the public outside his own camp, where, guess what..... he gets to do what he wants since they are very dependant on him to eat... plus hes got interscope....

lets not forget that these beats arent even his creations..... lets not forget that those boring ass melodies and frankenstien basslines are being hummed from his brain... this generic-not basic, just generic melodies (they are almost always a simple half bar melody repeated a step up, so a em riff is like.....a,b,c/b,c,d....) are him humming to reasonably skilled musicians.... so that doesnt say much about his humming either...

yup em is garbage and my production is much better, as is classic's. just because this dude is gettin covers and work with the big names doesnt mean he is actually good..... these dudes want shit for political reasons too....

all that said, i just listened to this album again with an open mind. and some joints arent bad at all, in fact a few of the beats are kinda nice... except that they dont turn out to be em's when you look at the credits...red spyda and raphael saddiqreally had the only dope beats on here..... the storch beat was garbage too....

 

[o-a-ksavage]

^^^^^
Slight exaggeration? I mean, come on, while I agree that Em isn't the dopest producer out or anything, I think there are many producers out there who are way worse and way less consistent, but any time Em's name's dropped you get guys on here furious about how garbage he is. For example, On Jay's the Black Album his beat is probably the best on there (maybe december 4th or My First Song). A hit he had outside of his camp was We on Fire by Lloyd Banks, so there's one, Runnin by Pac and Big was another. He aint Kanye or Dre, but it seems like he's gettin hated on WAY harder as a producer than he deserves.

 

[Cold Truth]

on fire was a kwame production... em added the little horn swells... hardly the bulk of the beat...runnin was a blatant kanye bandwagon bite... and to say that the plodding, boring beat for "moment" was anywhere near as dope as encore, threat, what more can i say, and much better produced beats like change clothes, allure, lucifer, (oh and PSA- THE certified banger of the album?) hell even the intro was nicer... thats your opinion and all and thats cool.....

but who is worse? gimme a big "name" producer like him who is worse... i cant think of one.... honestly oak.. can you honestlky tell me that production wise a lot of uddes on this site arent nicer? he gets the hate frome me for the following reasons:

1. he even SOUNDS like hes just learning. you can tell. he sounds like a beginner, and i GUARANTEE that if he put those tracks up here in the showcase he wouldnt be considered a top player on the site... gauranteed. he'd be getting a lot of feedback telling him he has the right idea/on the right track but has poor execution. he'd be told that the drums were/are boring, the melodies kind of bland, and too many beats sound like recycled versions of the rest of them. we'd be telling him to keep at it and he'll get there one day, but now isnt it. do you honestly believe that all these cats are critiuqing him in person? hell nah... too many people eatin off him to tell him the real... and i'd say he needs that feedback in a bad way, but it doesnt sound like he's gettin it.

2. the blatant dick sucking of the cats gettin at him for beats... wait you mean to tell me that em got a track on the black album because he was a worthy producer? over primo? 45 king? dre? jay couldnt a gotten a jazze phe beat? rick rock? RZA? hell even a track from clark kent would have made more sense.... alchemist? hi tek? especially with whathe was talkin about on "moment"? hell what about swzz beats? eminem gets so many politically influenced spots on albums its rediculous... he isnt gettin these gigs on his merit as a producer so much as his merit as a name and a good name to be associated with business wise...

do you think his scratch cover was warranted over the likes of.... i dunno....
primo? pete rock? hi tek? alchemist? dilla? just blaze? guys who at least have long, established track records for classics and quality music under their belt? jazze phe? mannie fresh? HAVOC? RZA?

 

[J Rilla]

^^^^^

. For example, On Jay's the Black Album his beat is probably the best on there (maybe december 4th or My First Song). .

Did i read that right?!?! If i did....i dont think alot of people is going to agree on that tip

 

[classic]

Did i read that right?!?! If i did....i dont think alot of people is going to agree on that tip

yea thats why i dident respond, that comment made his whole argument lose crediblitity lol

I mean dog, come on, EM aint good man, he sucks as a producer, and i rarely say that about other producers, but seriously, i think his beats are lame as hell, espically considering the resouces he has,

WHat erks me is that he gets props from all these other people who wouldent have a damn thing to do with his production if he wasent a superstar.

Like truth already said...
Do u think emimen would have gotten the cover of scratch on his production merits alone? Do you think kanye would have mentined him as one of his fav's if he was just another producer grining? man please....If em wasent a superstar his ass would be right hear on illmuizk gettin his beats ripped apart in the showcase section..

i said it once and i will say it again,production wise, i will smash emiemn, and so can a good number of people on this site...


class

 

[Cold Truth]

this whole thread is typical of em fans.. "well it isnt THAT bad....."

well damn if dude was so great, why do we have so many of his "fans" scraping for excuses and hyperbole to defend his wack ass beats?

man..... i swear to god... im better then son now.... and naybody who wants to trhow that whole "well if your better hwy is he selling records and your online talkin shit" nonsense... please take 2 seconds and put your brain to use and think about it first...

and since im already better, i say...

give me comparable resources..... give me:

-my current cubase/plug ins setup
-a live horn section
-a versatile guitarist
-a live bass player
-the full support and marketing power/money of his label
-1 month of time to work...

yup... i'd have some dope shit, best believe, and so would most cats here...

 

[Rhythmikal]

i dont know people, i think were being a little harsh on him.

on reading this i went into iTunes and listened to some of his beats. i mean personally i think some of them are pretty tight, whether he actually made them or not. im not gonna lie to everyone for props, i just think a couple of them sound OK.

alot of his new stuff is UTTER SHIT i.e Gatman and Robbin - one of the worse beats iv ever heard.

sAfE.

 

[J Rilla]

give me comparable resources..... give me:

-my current cubase/plug ins setup
-a live horn section
-a versatile guitarist
-a live bass player
-the full support and marketing power/money of his label
-1 month of time to work...

yup... i'd have some dope shit, best believe, and so would most cats here...

Damn ...thats what my setup is missing

 

[Qwerty]

i personally hate the album, apart from the last 3 tracks (quik, red spyda, scott storch).

class was that a serious statement^^?

sAfE.

How about Ghetto Gospel and Don't You trust me(that one is a blatant loop of Dido's beat, but it's still good)??

lets not forget that these beats arent even his creations..... lets not forget that those boring ass melodies and frankenstien basslines are being hummed from his brain... this generic-not basic, just generic melodies (they are almost always a simple half bar melody repeated a step up, so a em riff is like.....a,b,c/b,c,d....) are him humming to reasonably skilled musicians.... so that doesnt say much about his humming either...

Yo, dr dre is doing the same thing, he has been doing the same thing since The Chronic, he had people playing for him. I'm sure he plays some keys, but he probably hums a lot too and that explains where eminem got this from. The diffirence is that Dre's are classics and Em's are debated. Look at the credits from a dre beat and a em beats, they are as long: mixed him, keys by him, bass by him, this by him, etc. So they both are "help". So please get off that humming thing making him not a producer cuz if dre is a producer so is em.

"Is beats sound the same" (not in exact words)

I agree with that. But if you look at it, the beat that sounds the same are the one that he makes for the people out of his camp. Look on "The Massacre" : Gotta Die tonight -> you see it's is style, but it could've been produced by someone else, GatMan and Robbin -> you might not like it, but even if it has eminem all over it it's quite original with that batman sample, My Toy Soldier -> i had noooo idea it was Eminem until i bought the album.

And the last thing, the production on Eminem Show, in my opinion is topnotch, and he produced most of them. After that album, it's at that point that is beats started too sound cheaper and I think that's cuz is co-producers left so the sound changed. You might say that is beats are garbage, but The Em Show is well produced and NO BEATS SOUND THE SAME on it: Cleaning Out My Closet , Soldier, Superman, Till I Collapse and.. Hailie's Song that was produced mainly only by him, if you don't like that song, then i don't know.

But I can understand your hate, that a producer with these skillz is getting all this attention, but remember this: it's not the "producer" who's getting all this attention, it's "Eminem". He could be doing a puppet show and he would get a cover on a magazine.

 

[Qwerty]

well damn if dude was so great, why do we have so many of his "fans" scraping for excuses and hyperbole to defend his wack ass beats?

I never said he was so great, just saying he's not as bad as MANY MANY people say.

 

[classic]

^^^^^
I mean thats a well put argument and all but the fact remains that most of emiemns beats are lame,

To me he is not as bad as people say, he is much much worse........
U cant deny that man, as a producer he just dont got the talent that his peers have, yea dre may use musicans too, but he started doing that fairly recently in his career(late 90's) and he has the track list to back it up.

Dre dident start out with a bunch of studio musicans, and 80,000 dollar studio, dre started like us, , a beat machine, and a dream. He took time to develope his own talent and style.how most producers should start

I think EM is the perfect example of a rich kid having all the resources in the world trying to by talent. Like truth said his beats sound sooo newbish despite all the resources he has. Of course with all those resources behind him he is bound to get lucky with an solid track now and again, and he does, but as a whole, his work is sub-par at best.

Then weigh in these factors

--Unlimted resrouces
--Tips from the greastist hip hop producer of all time(DRE).

To me that makes his production seem even worse , afrique only has reason and a keyboard and he would KILL emienm. Dudes beats are just lame to me and i dont respect cats that try to by their talent.

class...