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The Great Debate

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MarkN

MarkN

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 55
I wanted to post up a question here to see what people thought! I'm writing my uni dissertation at the moment on the use of sampling in hip hop and wanted to ask people...

Do you think 'hip hop' that doesn't use samples can ever really be called 'hip hop'?
or is it just rap?
or is any of the music hip hop or is it all rap music regardless of if it uses samples or not?

I don't want to have the which is better debate so try and steer away from that...

Thanks
 
Ozmosis

Ozmosis

Sound Tight Productions
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 201
bthis!
Long story short if its creative and has a nice flow and vibe, its hip hop. You can sample and have a hot track, you can sample and still sound boring and unorignal, the same goes for composing. Its all on the creativity of the individual, and what style he/she likes or prefers. Theres no one or better way to do anything. As long as your expressing your true self its hip-hop. just my opinion
 
MarkN

MarkN

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 55
ok...
the main thing i was trying to get at was that hip hop originated largely from DJs playing breaks and looping them with MCs rapping over the top! so the evolution of this seems to be your typical sampled hip hop track. If you don't use samples and you create your track from scratch does this not mean there isn't really a link to hip hop at all but rather its a rap track?
 
Lazy Eyes

Lazy Eyes

The Beat Konduktah
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
wow.. people defining the difference between hiphop and rap. I mean the difference is only for those inside the game to see. The mass crowd sees it as rap/hip hop/urban. It's all the same to them. I don't really care if people sample or compose, as long as it's dope..


there's some real composed hiphop and there's some fake sampled shit. I mean i call Clipse hiphop and that's composed, but real. But i do agree on sampled hiphop having a more authentic feel.

Premo
Dilla

vs

Neptunes
Swizz Beats
 
Ominous

Ominous

OminousRed.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
Planet Rock?

I think it is the same thing. You hear a sample, you chop it and make it sound the way you want it to. You hear a synth sound, you sequence it and make it sound the way you want it to. Swizz does sample and so does Rockwilder even though they are known for their synth work.
 
mercurywaters

mercurywaters

hip hop in the flesh
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 32
bthis!
the spirit of hip hop is to make magic with whatever you have available. those who started it, didn't have instruments or money to pay for lessons so they rhymed over other artists music. now you can get a cracked copy of fruity loops for free and figure out a boom and a bap and make something hot. hip hop isn't sampling, sampling is a product of the hip hop mindset.
 
Lazy Eyes

Lazy Eyes

The Beat Konduktah
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
Course it don't.. I guess that's clear. But it's hard to give a definition of what's hiphop and what not.
I mean i don't even think it's even worth bothering to discuss if it's hiphop or not..

If it's hot, it's hot. Just make music.
 
Ominous

Ominous

OminousRed.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 21
What I find to be interesting is music that has the hip hop formula but isn't accepted as hip hop.

Like PM Dawn... Fergie... Lady Sov...

Who makes these determinations?

Relic said:
NWA is rap, not hiphop to me ...(teeheehee) and they used samples.
Click to expand...

How come you don't think they are hip hop?

I was just curious as to what you define as hip hop. I know it is different for everyone. Perception is subjective.
 
L

LDB

Banned
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 73
Ok...lets be real here for a minute! The record comany's and the old school musicians by way of shiesty lawyers made hip hop transition from strictly sample/dj based track formulation. Hip Hop came from the inner city ghettos where most didn't have any musical formal training so they didn't know chords, scales and all the this other shit. It's funny as hell to me how the once "wanna be" classical musicians" and "Jazz musicians" and "R&B msusicans" are now diving into hip hop and making shit so music theory oriented. Dudes back in the day wasn't giving a flying fuck about what key a hip hop track was in. Hip Hop was never meant to be about all that imo. Hip Hop was in fact given birth from the belly of sampling those 45's that you heard ya pops playing around the crib thru mixing like a dj. Then came the sampler and it was a wrap! It is what it is!


Hip Hop was founded on and still should be driven by samples IMO. These greedy as "old" musicians and record company's have thrown a monkey wrench into the game and because you can't kill this music, producers have just adapted and kept it moving. We're the reason a lot of those old school musicians are still eating and there music is still relevant but how do we get thanked? By being sued when we take there shit, restructure it and make a hit. Now for you "loopers" this doesn't apply! YOU'RE STR8 THIEVES.....LOL!
 
Ozmosis

Ozmosis

Sound Tight Productions
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 201
bthis!
What killed sampling was when ol school artist back in the day began to demand their roayalty money, and rightfully so in most cases. Once record companies and a&r figured they were losing money paying thousands of dollars just to clear a 3 sec sample, bring in the musicians. But Im not going to knock a kid whose making sample free beats and not call it hip hop, who am I or anyone else to make that assumption.
 
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