Sync issues with Logic & the MPC1000

[Shonsteez]

Hey guys, so this has always been an issue with my setup ever since I copped Logic but since it was so intermittent and didn't always happen as far as I could tell I never paid it too much mind even though it did bother the crap out of me, lol.

A close friend of mine experienced the same problems with his M-Audio FW410 and he said the problem was resolved by purchasing a separate MIDI to USB interface. So I wonder if the FW protocol is the culprit???

I was tracking out a beat yesterday and I noticed a serious time slippage however in the beat once it was tracked into Logic....probably the worst one Ive noticed yet. So I returned to my once massive quest to discover what the rotten link is in my chain. So far no good...

Heres the deal:
Basically ever since i bought LogicPro and started using it as my new DAW to track beats from my MPC1000 into the computer Ive always noticed sync issues when tracking into Logic. Whats more, it doesn't always audibly show up as noticeable on certain occasions...its like you can hear Logics internal clock shifting out of time on occasion which is a serious irritation while tracking as you can imagine.

My problem isnt establishing sync, but rather establishing a "correct" sync! I can successfully get Logic to be the Master and transmit Midi Clock to my MPC but the real issue lies in maintaining the same timing that my original composition had when played on my MPC.

Ive gone through my settings numerous times with no luck finding anything new that could be culprit. Countless hours of googling hasn't rendered any good results as well so Im hoping some of the more experienced Logic users can help shine some light on my problem???

To help illustrate my issue, Ive posted screenshots of my settings in the AMS, Logic, and the MPC.

Any help is highly appreciated considering I have a session planned for tracking this coming weekend!!!

My Logic Settings:

 

[Shonsteez]

My AMS Settings:

 

[Shonsteez]

MPC1000 Documentation on making the 1000 the slave.
*As described in the instructions, Ive had my cable config as follows: Interface(MOTU Ultralite) MIDI Out > MPC1000 MIDI In (2).

 

[Formant024]

do you have the same issue when you clock to external, using the mpc as the master clock /control ?

 

[38th||]

Are you giving the clocks time to lock up? When I had an MPC 1000 I noticed it took roughly 4 bars before the timing would lock.

 

[Ominous]

I wish I could help but I have no idea because I don;t have my MPC2500 synced to Logic. I just manually record the audio into Logic without midi.

"the real issue lies in maintaining the same timing that my original composition had when played on my MPC"

I have this problem sometimes with Reason and Logic. When I open Reason files, the tempo usually changes to the Reason file's tempo. But every now and then, Logic with retain the tempo and change the Reason file's tempo.

I just manually adjust as I need to.

I'm curious to see if you find out what is up. Because I do eventually want to sync my MPC and Logic up.

 

[Shonsteez]

do you have the same issue when you clock to external, using the mpc as the master clock /control ?

Yes but its actually worse and not advised as Ive read from numerous sources as well as experienced for myself. The 1000 does not have the capability to transmit Midi Clock tightly enough to be the master.

Are you giving the clocks time to lock up? When I had an MPC 1000 I noticed it took roughly 4 bars before the timing would lock.

I always put 2 dummy bars at the beginning, but Ive tried 4 in the past and still experienced the same issues. I suppose I could try putting 2 more again, but I fear thats not the the real problem here.

I wish I could help but I have no idea because I don;t have my MPC2500 synced to Logic. I just manually record the audio into Logic without midi.

"the real issue lies in maintaining the same timing that my original composition had when played on my MPC"

I have this problem sometimes with Reason and Logic. When I open Reason files, the tempo usually changes to the Reason file's tempo. But every now and then, Logic with retain the tempo and change the Reason file's tempo.

I just manually adjust as I need to.

I'm curious to see if you find out what is up. Because I do eventually want to sync my MPC and Logic up.

Yeah, the whole benefit of having the MPC synced to the computer is that if your tracking a large span of parts that exceed your outputs you can still take turns to track each part and every track will be perfectly synced up later as it sounded in your original composition.
Obvious benefits such as BPM based effects can be used then, Software Instruments with BPM information can lock up correctly, tracking vocals and making edits around your beat is easier...the list goes on....its basically just much easier to work on your beat when its in time with the grid.

Im hoping some one might have an answer cuz im starting to get pretty frustrated with this dam thing, and Im usually very resourceful when it comes to solving problems such as this.

I mean basically its either Logic, my MPC, or my Interface causing the problem. Technically it shouldnt be the MPC since its the slave so Ive ruled that out of the equation. Logic questionably could be the problem but Ill never know unless someone else has experienced the same exact issues, and my MOTU interface is suspect possibly due to a failure to transmit correct midi sync via FW possibly!?.....I honestly have no clue which it is yet.

 

[Formant024]

ill will have go at this tomorrow, ill hook up the 8pre(also fw) to the pro and see how logic behaves with the mpc500. I havent had issues with the 2kxl hooked to the 1224(pci) and motu normaly has pretty good drivers when it comes to mac.

 

[Shonsteez]

Word, if you do let me know. Thanks.

 

[Shonsteez]

Oh yeah figured Id also mention, after chatting about drivers earlier I decided to check and see if MOTU had put up a new update and they actually did so I downloaded and installed it.

Unfortunately it didnt change anything and the exact same problem still exists.

 

[7thangel]

though i'm not on a mac or logic anymore, i never really had the problem with getting it to sync, but with different versions of mpc and such. what kind of firewire chips does your mac use? what has akai said?have you tried to contact the infamously elusive motu? is it the only thing hooked up that can cause jitter?

 

[Formant024]

^^^ good one, i got TI fw chipset in here and they're proven not to have issues opposed to the none TI equiped macs.

 

[Shonsteez]

Yeah, i have whatever chipset that comes stock in the MacBook. - Is that part of the Logic Board? (Ive never looked into that)

I havent even bothered contacting MOTU since they are notorious for not providing any substantial help whatsoever.

As for contacting AKAI their pretty much the same and usually not very bright over there...plus Im sure they would say its the Master's fault if the MPC is set to be the slave. My assumption anyways.

EDIT--------

Heres what I took off system profiler for the MacBooks firewire:

FireWire Bus:

Maximum Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec

0x115800:

Manufacturer: 0x1F2
Model: 0x115800
GUID: 0x1F20000080719
Maximum Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Connection Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Sub-units:
Unknown Unit:
Unit Software Version: 0xD
Unit Spec ID: 0x1F2

 

[Shonsteez]

One thing thats peculiar is that once I updated my midi drivers the AMS wont let me cable my MPC to the Ultralite now which is a bit odd. However you can actually still send midi information through Logic in the same port, it just shows up in the Logic dialog as Ultralite MIDI Port instead of MPC1000 IN....I think it basically just utilizes the labeling you give your devices in the AMS to make routing more direct and easy in your DAW.

 

[Formant024]

^^^ yeah, its not that relevant but can be handy when you're using a lot of midi connections.

 

[Shonsteez]

What pisses me off is if it is the MOTUs drivers causing the problem ima be royally pissed! I mean, when i copped that interface I soley purchased it becuase of its wide range of I/O and the price tag. I was already aware that MOTU doesnt make mind blowing products in regards to converters and sound quality, but I also already knew that MOTU has been quite trustworthy as far as what it provides. Its always been trusty MOTU ya know? It at least usually gets the job done with no additional hassles.

I still dont even know if its fair to blame the interface yet but all i can end up thinking is that the FW protocol is the potential problem spot???.....

This problem is beginning to become a black hole.

 

[Formant024]

the fw in the mac, not the in the motu. I had my issues with motu chaining 3 8pre's and having dropouts over fw, but i have 3 1224 over pci which works flawless so you'd assume that fw is the isse but i understand now that there is a limit eventhough an oem may state that it should work. So 1 unit could not have issues because it uses fw as there's enough buffer in the fw stream to not cause jitter or audible ticks/dropouts.

 

[Shonsteez]

Word, thats what i meant Form, i posted an edit in the post before my last showing what my system profiler lists for my MacBooks FW.