Play it by ear or Play it from the book?

[bigdmakintrax]

Hey I know that most of you are wondering what that subject line is???? well in my travels especially around the Washington area, which by the way has a huge amount of talented classically and self trained musicians......live players and other musicians, I ran into the director of music at Catholic University, she has a PHD in music and classical piano and has taught all around the world, she appeared to be in her mid forties or so maybe a lil older.....anyhow she was buying a Triton X and thats how I started talking to her, she had never seen an instrument with all of the features etc....., and we kind of started getting on the features of the board but then it turned to music in general....
I played some riffs and put together a beat, she was amazed when I told her I never had a class on piano or forming chords, however, I can read and write music, mind you there were two other people in there messing around and playing, neither of them ever had a class......but they were playing all kinds of classical and jazzy shidd.......She was telling me that she is amazed at people that play strictly by ear and conceded that the way music has been traditionally taught is way behind......sort of like we have all been saying on here......she is sort of a renegade because she has been wanting to revolutionize the way music is being taught, to begin more from the ear and from a soul or natural feel to your music........she said she felt like when she sees people that play very well by ear she considers them to be the real musicians.......she also believes that all of the training she has had has hindered or fractured her individual ability to create and make music......and mind you this is a lady with a PHD that can read or write any classical piece of music you could imagine or tell you all kinds of theories on music, she said most of the other people on her level do look down on musicians like that though but they could never play anything by ear...LOL........she was trying to figure out how she can play by ear or just improvise something original....she said she couldn't now that was heavy.........then she told me she judged some type of recent event.......one of the groups was a rap group and the others were sort of some people with more classically or orthodox pieces.......she voted on the rap group because of the originality and she said the music they had more "Soul" and a feel to it anyhow with that, how do you guys feel about the direction of music and what is your approach to constructing songs, do you feel like you are a better musician since you use your own creativity? and what approach do you think would make you more apt to study more theory?

 

[Copenhagen]

I actually haven't thought of it that way, and have been considering taking piano lessons etc for a long time...but reading you post and thinking about it has made me re-consider, as there might be some truth to the it, that it might limit you and your originality.
Many of the producers I respect and am inspired by are not classical trained or have any background like that either...

 

[Formant024]

I think you either have that ability to do without or you need to mindprint the principles, it will differ from person to person and in some cases someone should be thought classes and to some motivation will serve them better than classes...might sound stupid but taking classes is like brainwashing, you practice what you've learned and some people just stick to that while they'd have a better compulsive side, yet going to waste by learning the general theories. It's the same with singing, someone might have a characterful vocal, a hidden talent. If such talent is detected it will have follow classes dedicated to the person and not the person dedicating him/her self to the general methods because it will ruin their skill into an ordinairy vocalist leaving nothing of his/her distinctive abilities.

In general I'd wish I'd be classical educated but on the otherhand I know I'd lose progressive insight over compulsive producing because I'm stuck with recognizable scales, patterns and themes probably resulting in a writers block...It kills the imagination...I mean, how many classical pianist write and perform their own scores on stage ? and why ? Maybe a good question the next time you'd see her, cuz my opinion is one sided.

In any case, my motto remains...the less you know, the better...let the mind do the thinking, let books be books.

My approach comes from listening to as much genres as possible, an open mind and a goal to simply not be a copycat, dare to be original and progressive, influenced by those other genres.

 

[Cold Truth]

hoenstly, i have had to learn how to do what i do completely by ear myself, which isnt at that high a level admittedly, but classic and i have had similar conversations and he mad eme realize the benifits of learning the way i have been. i want to get some theory and whatnot under my belt, but i will always rely on my fingers, ears, and imagination to create more then anything. i think its a huge advantage to come into it blindly, because that to my mind cause a free flowing approach as opposed to creating through an already concieved set of rules and boundaries, i mean didnt jazz originate that way?

i know a lot of trained types look down on lil guys like us, but i think that tends to be a bit of jealousy... because i know people that look down on rap as a genre and play their guitar and drum tracks at a reasonably high level, but will listen to a two chord song i made and trip off it... i cant really say why per se, but they tend to marvel at how somebody without any training can create an entire piece of music from scratch.

honestly though, i think that by-the-book music can be a bit sterile, as those rules and boundaries prevent people from taking risks taht would/could pay off in a huge way.

 

[J Rilla]

I Have just decided to actually learn how to play the piano..........I had been playing by hear and even after i learn i think i will continue to play mostly by hear. I just think it is good to have a little bit of knowledge of the instrument

 

[afriquedeluxe]

I Have just decided to actually learn how to play the piano..........I had been playing by hear and even after i learn i think i will continue to play mostly by hear. I just think it is good to have a little bit of knowledge of the instrument

indeed. mastering to play an instrument is different to learning theory. applying that theory however is another thing. but yeah, class has also stressed upon this point many times, its all about the ear, theory only comes second to it.
cope, i would still take those piano lessons, and concentrate more on the physical playing form rather than the enormous amount of theory.

 

[juzblazwun]

I took a piano class in Jr. College, but got very bored with playing "Mary had a Little Lamb" and or bullshidd like that. I problem have learned more on my own than I did in class. If I had a teacher to teach me music that I can relate and put feeling into I believe that I would have been pretty good. I think they should update the music being played. I understand that the old classical music is a foundation, but if you can get someone to learn quicker with music they can relate to. Then everything else would be easier to learn.... in my opinion.

 

[classic]

Afrique beat me to it

Ive said it a number of times, all the music theory in the world dosent mean ishit if you dont have talent. SOme of the best musicans that have ever lived,ray charles,muddy waters, stevie wonder, do not know theory at all.

Learning theory will only help exaplain what a talented person is doing naturally. Again i will use afrique and cold truth as an example. THey have melodic shit that has minor/major key changes(which most great songs do). BUt if i asked them how they made the beat, they just say
"man i just work on it till it sounds right"
Music theory will just help you explain somethhing techinally that "sounds right"

If u have talent and learn music theory it can help explain what you have already been hearing in your head naturally and qucken your creative process. BUt if u dont have talent, all the music theory in the world will not give you a musical ear. Thats something your born with.

As for me , the only time i use theory when im making beats is when i am doing bridges or key changes. Other then that i pretty much go by ear.

honetlsy learning theory would not make a differnce to most cats production on illmuzik.
To put it plain and simple most people arent on that level as musicians.
to most ,learning theory would be a waste, i would focus more on developeing your ear. See if u can guess pitches key signatures and chourd progessions. If you have a talent for it then u should consider learning

A talented athelete can train for years and make it to the olympics
A regular dude can train all his life and never come close to a talented athlete

class...

 

[maddogg]

I have music theory and piano books i keep around for refrence. So I might be doing something and just decide too look up a certain chord or progression If Im not finding what i want by ear.Sometimes i dont use what I find it just help keep me moving creatively and not totally blocking.
Peace

 

[O-H-TEN]

I myself have always played by ear. Even though I have always wanted to take formal lessons to maybe expand my knowledge of the instrument and or learn how to actually write and read musical notes etc. I just know somehow, how the notes should sound. I know automatically if I hit a wrong note or chord or whatever. I teach myself to play music that I hear that moves me. When I create my own stuff it has no rules. I play whatever I'm feeling at the moment. It may be even be garbage to someone with a broader knowledge of musical theory who might challenge the reasoning as to the sequence or the order of the notes. But rules are made to be broken and if you are stuck in the rut of the current rules; you will never be able to break those boundaries and come up with something new. Right now I'm teaching myself how to play "Moments In Love" (beaten version) or (Three Fingers Of) Love by Art Of Noise. It's really a tight piece of music. Anyway, I bought a program called Instant piano to help teach myself the names of the notes and chords that I hear. I think that is an important thing to know. I know what the notes sound like and where they are; but I don't know their names. If you get what I mean. It has an ear training program in it and helps you to recognize and identify what you hear.
ONE

 

[MarkN]

originally i planned to start music theory and i even did have like a couple of lessons etc but i couldnt get into it, one reason is it does nothing for me i dont enjoy learning the stuff ! but i think i prefer to learn the way i do by playing sumthing and knowing whether it sounds right or not and you right by doing it this way its less robotic and more natural ! It has a soul to it and i think the main reason is you can teach anyone music theory you don't have to have any talent to be taught something but to learn something requires talent !

 

[Lex]

I started playing the drums a little while a go [can't remember exactly] and at first started with lessons..I learnt the basics and reading drum music [quote a bit easier than 'normal music'] but I was getting really bored by learning other people's work. I decided to do a couple of exams [so I'd have something to show for it, lol] then quit the lessons. I felt liberated, I'd spend my time making up my own drum patterns and songs as well as just improvsing etc when having the lessons and now that I wasn't doing the lessons any more I didn't have to waste time learning other poeple's stuff.

Thats pretty much how I got into beat making, which was like a year ago I think....I was basically extending my drum playing by using a step sequencer and recreating patterns I'd played on my kit, as well as trying out stuff which would be impossible for a live drummer to play. As for piano playing my knowledge consits purerly of a few chords I learnt on my own and wether something sounds 'wrong' or not, LOL.

I still play the drums now, and occasionally jam with a few friends that have guitars - just playing instrumental, ambient kinda shit. Beat making influences how I play the drums too strangely enough, as I started to play certain patterns and fills that sound almost 'chopped' kinda like in a lot hiphop beats.

 

[Producer X]

First off, great post. everyone has good points on this subject. I know theory enough to be able to work and communicate with others. I took 1 year of basic theory in college, but I had been playing keys and guitar for a few years before that. A lot of what I know, I learned from books, but I still can't read music to save my life. I do a lot of r&b stuff and knowing theory helps in that aspect. I mainly rely on my ear, but I'll refer to the theory if I'm looking for a certain vibe or doing vocal arrangements. I do recommend anyone that is serious about music to at least know the basics of theory. Along with being a producer and musician, I also engineer. I get other cats in the studio that just make beats and have no clue what key they're in or what chords they're playing. It just helps the work flow when you get to that stage. A lot of engineers these days are also musicians and producers. Say you got a beat that you have someone singing and they are flat on a note or two, but the vibe is perfect, if you know what key the beat is in, the engineer can just set the key signature in autotune (or what ever pitch correction program) and it's a wrap. My theory is the more you know the more valuable you are.
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[Shwaz]

I deffintely see how too much music theory could hinder a musician. But if you go and take lessons from someone that teaches imporvisational piano where you learn chords, scales, and jazz, you will be 100X better at beat making. The classical theory that woman taught really does not take into account what we do and is only useful up to a point.