Lessons For Up & Coming Producers

[SupaStar]

I have been gradually over time working on commercializng my music, and its getting there. But I read something this morning that I think I have been leaving out on my compositions. And that is laying out or drafting a pattern for each beat I build. The article I read I stressed the importance of it, by laying out I mean,
getting a pencil and paper and sketching how you gonna organize the track...
following a simple pattern like 8 Bar Verse | 4 Bar Chrous | 8 Bar Verse | 4 Bar Chrous |8 Bar Verse | 6 Bar Chorus Change - Up <Add a Little Spice Right Here Nah Mean.
Also it stress the cruciality of a Bass line, and how important it is to every track, now folks heres where I messed up too many times.
Also that great melodies dont come in a day, maybe by luck but take time to organize and put it together it will over time become like second nature when your ears become tuned at recognizing and playing the notes you wanna hear.
This is the sad part, there are no excuses and I dont wanna start a debate here, but there are none for using low end software sequencers. Sorry folks this one hit me hard too, but there are very few labeled software sequencers out there recognized for their flawless emeulation of hardware and professional standard. I know most of us cant afford, but its best when you want to make steps to improve your music to start by getting a higher end sequencer. Two examples given were Propellerhead Reason and Cubase, a lot of moooolah but its an investment you'll never regret..
I have never heard this term before, but give ya brain an "inspirational let go" what this means is and I am also guilty of this too, dont lock yourself up iin the lab all day all night feeding on your addiction. Take regular intervals to go live life, and make notes of changes to the music scene and life in general, it is life that inpires music....
so, hope this helps

 

[Cold Truth]

excellent post, KRZY. i guess i myself am well ahead of the curve in this case... i went straight at cubase sx, the full version from the start. likewise, almost every beat i have made and posted on here for feedback has been structured as a song- intro,verse, hook, bridge, ending, etc... and i rarely complete a track right away; many have been changed after getting feedback in the showcase.

and as far as letting your brain work, i'm on that already as well. this last track i have been working on, i started saturday night, and continued sunday between watching playoff games throughout the day. i listened to the track in my car to and from work and a meeting yesterday (part of mastering as well....) and all day at work. i went home and did some things taht drastically imroved the beat last night. all in all i have spent maybe 4 hours total time, but the initial beat took maybe a half hour. tonight i am putting in my bassline and changing a horn to a flute and using an entirely different melody.....

anyhow, i am saying all of this to say that KRZY is on point with his recent understandings. anyone else with cubase knows that this is an excellent sequencer as well as audio recorder (if you need to record audio, i strongly suggest getting this instead of or along with reason) and if you can get say, waves gold bundle, you will be fairly set.

i have a few insights of my own:
dont hesitate to go completely off the wall with a beat, even if the initial results are wack. i cant count how many times a bad idea turned into a personal classic.

learn the little things! For example, hi hats-and I have only recently dug deep into this-but switching up the velocity, timing, and placement of your high hats can really drive the direction of the track. You will be amazed at how this subtle part can dictate what the track will become. try and emulate funk drumming, jazz drumming, just with your hi hats. the rest of the track will follow. learn how to convincingly program your drums and percussion. it is well worth the time.

be open to the feedback you recieve in the showcase! if someone makes a suggestion, at least try it. keep in mind that those second and third opinions are very valuable..... and never take criticism to the heart. there were a couple a few showcases ago, where i told the ugy, basically, "the beat is great if you change (like, 5 things)... which i said, because i thought the beat WAS great, or at least had the potential. i remember the first beat i posted, people were like "uh...... not feelin that Dark and Lovely joint at all, dont really know why..." and Wings would always tell me to use more effects. a lot of beats i posted, people were like "not really my cup of tea, but.."

but the last few months, i have gotten some very good feedback. a lot of the things i am doing i now do because people gave me honest opinions and i made adjustments, even when i didnt want to.

just thought i would add a lil sumin to krzy's thoughts.....

 

[XpLiCiiT]

thanks for the info and i definately agree with you when you say hot tracks dont come in one day it can take you weeks just for a basic pattern to sound right...lol

and about getting good sequencers like reason is an excellent idea (why not get the top of the line so u wont have to upgrade later right....thats how i look at it)

well anyways good info man hope people learn from these threads


i got a few tips too...
A very important part of making beats is choppin up your own sounds...say u play something in ur keyboard u can chop it up on whatever program u use (recycle,cool edit,etc...) and chop it up and just take the parts that u want and delete the ones u dont ..then throw those pieces into ur beat and mess around with different things such as pitch volumes and arrangments...this helps me a lot when it comes to my melodies and such....
Break downs on a beat are also critical ( a beat is like a horror movie ur gonna want ur listeners to be like oh whats gonna happen next) so be creative and make some breakdowns that will throw ur listener off so when u bring in ur beat again they will be like DAMN!!!! Hope u understand what im trying to say here
Well these are some of my tips so hope u get something out of this....STAY UP!!!

 

[x-squizet]

thanx for the info i an realy going to use it

 

[boneyboys]

I agree with some of what you're all saying - it's definitely a good idea to begin to get a little more structured with beat making and that I plan to do, but I really don't think it's necessary to be going into production with a high end sequencer. Ok, chances are you'll find it a bit easier to do flashy stuff, but you can still make great stuff on a free tracker, you just need to be creative. If you are into making the investment to get great sounding music more "easily" (not disrespecting the art of making a great beat here, just that the better the software the easier it'll be to get the sound you want) then tha's cool, but don't just disreguard lower end stuff, I't can still produce great results

 

[ACEBEATZ]

Your right

I agree with some of what you're all saying - it's definitely a good idea to begin to get a little more structured with beat making and that I plan to do, but I really don't think it's necessary to be going into production with a high end sequencer. Ok, chances are you'll find it a bit easier to do flashy stuff, but you can still make great stuff on a free tracker, you just need to be creative. If you are into making the investment to get great sounding music more "easily" (not disrespecting the art of making a great beat here, just that the better the software the easier it'll be to get the sound you want) then tha's cool, but don't just disreguard lower end stuff, I't can still produce great results

I AGREE

Havin to mess with acid and fruity lopp when i began, one thing i learn is that sometime, the less you have, the better it is. Cuz you try to get more since you have less (it's psychological). But when you begin to try to have the most of what you have, when you get better equipment, you get the most of it early.

Holla Ace

 

[bigdmakintrax]

The backbone of good patterns comes from lots of listening, or maybe getting some real music theory behind you, not that its necessary but it will take you further in production, you would be surprised at producers that not only make hits but at least play keys or some other instrument, that will also give you a foundation for melodies too..I know some good drummers that make killer beat patterns because thats the backbone of any track and like Krzy said the bassline is pretty crucial......theres a lot of people that I know that play by ear and I mean convincingly enuff that when they tell you they've never taken a lesson it is hard to believe but that has been cats I have played in live bands with....there is an element of musical ability to making good tracks, I think every producer should seek to improve on their musical abilities....learn scales, learn some basic drum rudiments and patterns, this will transfer over to your production...

 

[SupaStar]

I agree with some of what you're all saying - it's definitely a good idea to begin to get a little more structured with beat making and that I plan to do, but I really don't think it's necessary to be going into production with a high end sequencer. Ok, chances are you'll find it a bit easier to do flashy stuff, but you can still make great stuff on a free tracker, you just need to be creative. If you are into making the investment to get great sounding music more "easily" (not disrespecting the art of making a great beat here, just that the better the software the easier it'll be to get the sound you want) then tha's cool, but don't just disreguard lower end stuff, I't can still produce great results

I AGRY

Havin to mess with acid and fruity lopp when i began, one thing i learn is that sometime, the less you have, the better it is. Cuz you try to get more since you have less (it's psychological). But when you begin to try to have the most of what you have, when you get better equipment, you get the most of it early.

Holla Ace (www.acebeatz.com)

I am replying to both of these comments for I dont want anyone to begin believing that settling for less is alright. Case on case Fl Studio is a great piece of machine as well as others, but the point I tried to make is that if you look carefully at it and lower end warez you'll realize that they are just carbon copies of the higher end machines. You'll also realize that they have to lease technologies from the higher ends for example Fl Studio has ReWire which basically uses Propellerheads technology and Vsti which was developed by Steinberg the makers of Cubase.
So, I know Fl Studio deserves it props for being great and user friendly, but I suggest to y'all let it only be a way for you to start off, but at first chance you get you move up...
I am an avid FL user and recently switched over to Reason, and to tell the truth there aren't really any big differences between them indeed I prefer FL, but when you spend time and compose a track with Reason your results are masterpieces...
Only Thoughts....

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Well put Krzy....when it comes down to it a sequencer is a sequencer some might do a lil better job at quantizing etc....but if you learn on Fruity you should definitely be able to take that concept to any priced sequencer and produce.....I started on the SP12 and I am amazed all of the concepts of sequencing that fruity loops implemented.

 

[Kevin A]

Excellent point BigD, I think about that topic the same way. As for the top of the line sequencer issues are concerned, don't get gased when you hear stuff like high end and low end sequencer, or production tools period. That stuff is really overrated and not because I'm guessing, but because I know. Keep in mind nothing is written in stone, and there are tons of informative articles out there that swear by many different things. Keep in mind when most of the when someone tells you that a tool can't do something, it is because they haven't been successful with at making it happen with that tool. Like all information you have to take it and filter it and only keep the goods. The sequencer thing is all hype on the real.

 

[boneyboys]

Yeah, it's true FL is nice for being so user friendly but recently I've been feeling a little constrained by it, so I'm moving back a step to a free tracker for a little and seeing whether I can get some nice results out of that. Who knows, it might intensely frustrate me coming from FL but I think I've gotta give it a try to stay creative. Failing that I may well have to do something illegal with reason. And to second bigd I think getting some musical background is definitely a good idea, I've been singing in a band for a bit now and just the amout you pick up is invaluable. Maybe cheap acoustic guitars are the way

 

[Kevin A]

Boneyboys it is really nothing that limits you in FLstudio. I've learned that with most of the people here, they'll base their comments to their own understanding & experience and project them like concrete facts. Put 2 and 2 together and you'll find that it's only a amatuers perspective. I'm not a professional either but I have used FruityLoops for about 7 years and know how to do things in it that you will never find in a manual, FLstudio also has 3 sequencers FYI. It's really all about the process that your brain uses to solve a problem. My word of advice is to never listen when someone says something can't do, I always listen to what can do . 9 times out of 10, a person will say something can't do because they couldn't do it, therefore leaving that indivisual with a half cocked bias. Fruityloops is easy to use, but everybody can't make good music. I know people who can talk about all aspects of music production intellegently, but when you hear their music, you be like" I would have guess he had some skillz, but this sucks" Something has to be in your soul, that will carry you even to play by ear if you don't have training, otherwise rely on your good ear and start sampling. You are your only limitation in FLstudio.

 

[boneyboys]

Yeah, that wasn't what I was trying to say, as a program it can do an awful lot, but it doesn't really fit with how I like to produce so it leaves me feeling a little constrained by the style of production it directs me to. The program is a very nice piece of software, lovely programming, just for me it isn't really giving me the style - not ammount - of control that I want to be using. I think it's quite possibly that it's almost too clean and polished, just leaves me a little cold without a load of figuring stuff out. I'm a bit of a geek so I enjoy nothing more than archaic hexidecimal codes and only half working sliders. Not a problem with the program, just with how it fits in for me. Sorry if it came out a bit wrong, it wasn't meant as a great big pop at the limitations of FL, more of a comment on how I feel it sets me in a bit of a rut.

Sorry Fade, looks like I accidentally started another FL vs ... thread again, accident I assure you

 

[Medicine Man]

I am a proffesional producer and I don't think some one's beats will be any better on higher end software, on a creative level, but they will make your beats sound more proffensional. But if you really want to make your beats sound more commercial, I think the only way to go is a MPC or like sampler. Thats what gives 98 percent of mainstream and underground hip-hop its sound. And I've heard people say you can get the same results with something cheaper like fruity loops, but a program like fruity loops will never give you that "hip-hop" sound, and thats just a fact because most cats that get paid use hardware samplers and pro tools or digital performer.

 

[1d3nt1tY]

I hate reason, it is no better than fl imho BUT cubase is the shit for melodies... if you have the proper hardware to make use of it. If you do the shit as a hobby, fl would be enough for you, if you do the shit for the long run and investment, go with somethin better like cubase (nuendo is the same thing, except more functionality/video/mastering type shit involved)

IT all depends, and yes, fl can give you pretty good resuts by itself, as producer_gyal has shown with her cuts for rnb and the like. n o, I'm not jockn, just respectn, I'm married you wack mufuccaz who would say that...

some people will buy 10 g's worth of shit and sound like garbage while some idiot buys the first 99$ piece of shit and make platinum beats, it is up to the person mostly, and yes, ultra high fidelity can be paid for after you make your income first.


sorry, nbot to be negative, but some shit is worth "kinda" griping about lol

 

[boneyboys]

Yeah, mainly what I'm trying to put forward in this thread is that although spending a shite load on hard/software will get you professional sounding results there are options. I'm pretty heavily in support of the freeware and open source software movements so I'm saying that there is a lot of useful stuff out there, it's just maybe not quite as convenient, and the algorithms don't have quite the quality of the pro stuff.

 

[SupaStar]

Now y'all gonna get me in trouble with Fade for starting a never ending thread debating which is good, now that wasn't my intention in the first place I only suggested that your better recognized as a professional for using higher end equipment both in the digital and the real world. So all I's saying was get yourself promoted to higher levels every chance you get, whether it be buying new hardware, software or even a couple sample cds.
So lets all agree and head back to the subject of the thread, please before we upset the gatekeeper and he closes a very useful thread..

Next Tip I forgot to post up and i also read it in the alchemist interview...
Emotions can be powerful tools when used properly in composing a beat..
Case 1, wifey left you for another man, you turn those into one wicked r&b classic even write the words for it,, you'll feel better in no time
Case 2, feeling pissed of at the world lately, make a pissed of at the world beat, get ya synths and shape the hell outta them,
Case 3, hungry as a mug and aint go no food in the fridge or money in ya pocket, hey whats stopping ya...
and the Cases can go on..
But I despise against people who make beats cuz they bored and have nothing else to do, so they sit round the computer and ping pong around at the computer and make a lazy beat, trust me I know how to tell a beatmakers emotion when I listen to it and the most obvious is boredom and laziness. I hate them both they are responsible for giving us tracks that dont worth a second of listening. If ya feeling bored go outside to the park, find a girl or sommin, cuz nothing ruins creativity like laziness........ ..

There is nothing that makes a beat sound mellow other some good chord progression if ya take note of afriques beat, the secret to their niceness is that 'frique know him some chords, know what i'm saying:
so heres a great site to start on some ear training and chord progression practicality
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

 

[boneyboys]

nothing ruins creativity like laziness........

Good point Krzy, and the cause of a few problems for me and I'd imagine a few others of you (maybe).

Well bought back round to the topic too so I'm gunna add a little in here - borrow ideas but fiddle with them. Listen to a few of your favourite songs and pick out the parts you really like in them, the bits that get your head nodding, then try and put something similar in but change parts, so if you're feeling snare hits on the offbeat try putting a few in then breaking it down with an onbeat fill. Just stuff like that, let other people be creative and then by altering things your own creativity will come. And remember, its borrowing, not plagerising

 

[Chisel]

Once your creative juices start flowing, equipment shouldn't become a factor. I spent several years composing only on an MC-303. The only restriction I could think of back then was maxing out the memory You have to use what you have and take it to the limit. I remember hearing songs a few years back that were all composed by professional musicians given an MC-505 only. Hearing those songs was totally inspirational to me. The added bonus of keeping it simple is you learn the instrument inside and out. You start to compose songs that others would never even imagine possible on such a device. Since then, I've expanded my home studio a bit and I'm still learning how to make the most of the devices I have. Another thing I've always done was to try my best to duplicate a song I hear. That really helps with learning the instrument. Once you can replicate other songs, composing your own songs becomes simpler.

 

[God]

Dear All:

I think that Krzy K. did bring up an interesting point. One of the things I have noticed on several showcases was the lack of a change in the song structure. Thus, if one sequence was defined as a "beat" it would simply be looped.

For commercial purposes, an analysis of song structure is necessary. What is popular now is:
Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Verse2/Chorus/Bridge/Verse3 or Chorus/ to end. Keep it under 3:30 and you're OK. That's the song structure. You can have the vocals change up, but need complementing instruments. Sometimes I didn't hear that, and Krzy K. put it in context.

Krzy, I understand your statement about getting hardware in order to "step up" in rank. In several circles, if you don't have the latest version of ProTools HD, you might not get the sale, because that type of hardware is a "selling point." It's a "If your friends have it, you should too," type of a mentality.

I sensed this going into a ProTools HD vs. _____ thread. I'm stopping now.

Sincerely,
God