do we know what we are getting into

[classic]

I was at home chilling at my parents crib on a full belly and decided to turn on the source awards

while watching our future clientele degrade themselves with lame cultural stereotypes, i began to as my self this question

As an aspiring hip hop producer do I really know what I am getting into?????

These is personal man, I have worked my whole life to get where am today. This upcoming May I will be graduating with a masters degree in computer science which will give me opportunities for great employment and career development. I’ve had some great job offers all over the world.

Should I be willing to give up a steady job and paycheck and be at the mercy of some uneducated street cat,or shady music exec who may or may not like my beats??(I am planning to take a low payin job in NY next summer)

They music industry is crazy man, they are perpetuating stereotypes and clichés that I have been fighting against my whole life. Watching the source awards just reaffirms this. These people are profiting on the negative stereotypes of urban youth culture.

If I see one more cat with ICE or one more cat saying that he is real, I am going to puke !!!!!!(Real is those orphan kids in Uganda)

Anyway back to my point……

Its one thing to be a fan and boycott certain artist, but as a professional producer I may have to work for some of these cats regardless of how we feel about them
Why am I trying to be apart of something that is so fake.

This is really starting to bother me and I think it’s a question that we all must face as aspiring hip hop producers. Are u willing to by into the music industry lie??? Everyone says don’t be a sellout, but underground ish doesn’t put food on the table.

What do yall think

A frustrated & confused
Class…..

 

[Royal]

Class, I see it like this. You can either let the music industry make you, or you can make the music industry. You can either be about the music or all about that paper. Some producers don't care about what image they settin' or who they work with, their only concern is making that money, whereas other producers seem to have the industry revolve around them (i.e. Kanye West in recent months). Now, making money isn't a bad thing, but don't water down your beats just to fit into the stereotypes. As long as you do you, and have the confidence that "Imma make the industry revolve around me", then you'll be able to change the game to your likeing. And if you do have doubts, make sure you have a back-up plan (which I know you do.)

...but you gotta have that mentality, that "Im gon' change the game" mentality from the jump.
(plus you a talented dude, I'm sure you can do it, LOL)

just my $0.02

-Roy

 

[pancakebunnny]

At worst, pull a Jay-Z... Fake everyone out for a good 7-8 years, start good and water down for the sake of power, and then once you get ON TOP, fulfill all those goals you had from the jump of helping out the less fortunate, or changing people in a positive manner, or just being a good person all around.

God knows you won't get to be powerful enough to help those you want by being a "Common Sense" or "Talib Kweli" from the jump, be a "Jay-Z" or whatever to GET on top.... Infiltrate through deception.

"If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be
lyrically, Talib Kweli
Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
But I did five mill' - I ain't been rhymin like Common since" - Jay Z

"If lyrics sold then truth be told
I'll probably be just as rich and famous as Jay-Z
Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
Next best thing I do a record with common sense" - Talib Kweli

 

[Cold Truth]

um i think you two missed classic's dilemma; its more an issue of integrity then money, although that plays a role.

honestly, class, i feel like this.....

you are unique in that you have the experience of the "hip hop" life story (the way you came up), but you also have come up out of those situations before music even entered the picture, and have attained the education guys like kanye shit on. you know first hand how much a priveledge this is, not only to have the freedom to make these choices, but the ability to have achieved your educational goals, and to have recieved the job offers you have. you also have a unique training in music that most lack- that training giving you understanding, while your instincts give you your actual sound.

you have the education, experience, eyes, and ears to do anything at this point.

if you really have what it takes to succeed in real world business at a high level, then fly wherever those wings take you. your music can also take you places.....

but your plan a, in my mind, should be pursuing the avenues that your education has opened up. plan b should be your music. plan b, really, in my mind, is more like plan "a1" because we all know where your potential is in that arena.

dont go trying to be something you arent. i refuse to just accept the notion that we as artists have to sacrifice our own integrity in order to make it, but seriously, you have potential beyond what we see today. one thing you and i share is the ability to transcend the bounds of what hip hop is......

once in a while, someone comes along and kicks down the doors and turns things upside down. you can be that person, you have much more then what most people in this industry have. people can not prey on your ignorance too much; thats the first strike against most artists.

i think that eventually, you will be able to parlay both of these elements into success- your real-world workforce education and experience, and your true musical training and developed ear for YOUR music.

you are too much of a leader class, we've talked so many times and one thing we have each expressed is the desire to do something different in all this, and really all it takes is a few cats with the talent and drive to match a new vision and that can do great things. i know you to be a Christian and thus, i will say this: you know whose face to seek on something like this. you know that you will be answered in due time, and really thats the only perspective that will matter in the long run. drop to your knees homie, put some prayer into this. its too important not to. you have the oppurtunity and potential to do so much good, and change so many things.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Realities of the smoke and mirrors of the Game

Look man I know 3 producers in the industry personally full time,(sorry I cannot tell you who they are) you have to be very, very good man, I have heard material from them that is soOOOOOOOOOOOO Good you would not believe it....that have had people noses turned up to it because its not what is needed for the project or it sounds too much like someone else...they want fresh original sounds....believe me when you have to go around with your beat CD, which is what they still use or have someone shopping it for them but more than likely its not going thru the chain like mines or your beat CD goes........one of them plays beats (lots of them too) at least 2 or 3 times a week at the label on the inside....it gets directly to someone that can go yeah we want that or no we don't bring us another CD tomorrow or next week, as one of the individuals has a staff consisting of his personal manager and someone else that is close to him, they have accountants and lawyers that decide what they can do and what are good and bad business moves...how much money they get after it is said and done....they take whatever projects and crumbs that come their way.......and I know you heard of Quid Pro Quo....a favor for a favor....people that have been on the inside are connected they get on projects that no one knows about a lot of times....then they compete with producers directly signed on the label full time....there are production companies with producers that get work but they aren't signed directly....insiders get work before anyone about 99% of the time what is funny I have heard people advertise on lots of places about opportunities I already heard about and they got all of the production they need and then some...they are usually very closely aligned with the A&R's.....knowing these people have helped me understand the process and how hard it really is and see them happy when they are told they can go buy new gear and trade it out...(hahaha thats how I am getting my new(slightly used) 48 channel mackie board)......one of them told me they Have NEVER used an A&R to get on a project and most A&R's do not have a fucken clue....also here is the other kicker all 3 live in and grew up in the GAMe in NY....so they close to the projects and understand their craft from the perspective of making money inside and out....I also know there are still soooo many of the old skool producers in the game on projects and involved that you would not even realize than what they print up in Scratch, Source and XXL....other than the fresh blood......in reality....there is not enough work for everyone........it took me a few years to realize the odds......I mean its not impossible but there are so many other people that do this full time for a check and they take just about every project that comes their way........there are these people that think that submitting beat CD to someone is going to really get them signed....that is possible but have you actually seen and A&R's desk or office....even a SMALL label has thousands of CD's of HOT ass beats..................I am not trying to discourage you or play devil's advocate but I done heard it from the horses mouth from niggaz whose shidd I consider FIRE.....they ain't hyped up or overly confident either........ my advice also is to continue to get artists.....just sitting around with a bunch of instrumentals is ok.....You need to fully produce.....get artists......get projects........finish projects and let people know who you are......make a local buzz.......keep grinding, no one ever gave me a contact or opportunity........the last 6 or 7 months has yielded more from my own grind than any other time.....I would go around to labels......find other producers and network......but here is more advice.....only network to a certain extent if you take this game seriously.......if you got an artist you think is hot enough try and sign them or your next thing could be slipping through your hands and the producer on the other side of town just helped them to be the next thing.....how do you do that?????? have enough fresh material and work on and complete projects.......my advice Class......stick with that Masters.........I been in the computer field for more than a few years with a college degree also and its hard out here man.......but my career and resume is well established I do this as my 2nd job and make money from production.......I am getting on projects only after years of hard work....not like a year or 2........that is possible but like I said you have to look at reality and see people that are in the game already.....but you raised the issue of having to work for some "Street Cats"......even with your masters Class in the real world you gonna come up against people with less education than you ........more than likely with more experience and mastery of corporate america that will be telling you what to do......that's real and you will see once you get out of college that smoke and mirrors exist there too....LOL........

 

[RigorMortis]

shame on you clas calling that hiphop only shit i see is rnb and urban trash up there.. and if you go work anywhere you cant pick your colleagues unless you start your own company.

 

[Ash Holmz]

the industry is tough ... but so is the workforce ... imo you will never be content in either unless u start your own business... i have a pretty cool job .... but it sux to me because i do what someone else tells me... but with my company... we do what we want and get to lay down our own ideas and implement our plans... that piece of mind right there is the shit... i CANT WAIT for the day i can drop my job and focus full time on my company and my music... or maybe im just being a pussy for not saying fuc it and doing it already.. who knows

 

[Formant024]

Either you're doing this purely for the hobby, the cult.

Or

It's you're living. In that case money is a priority or else you'd be digging a hole for yourself. The bad thing about that is that you're a hiphopproducer which implies you're stuck within the same catagorie making your revenue limited. Personaly I like producing in general and opposed to many here I dont feel like I should have to produce hiphop to exploit it because I produce many other things that will create revenue much easier and quicker. I aint saying I'm succesfull although I grade myself competent enough to produce, write, mix and master whatever genre so it compensates for the "loss" I would have for the time spent making hiphopmusic. I am succesfull considering the little energy I've put into it and the offers and jobs I've rann into, executed and turned down. I'm pretty carefull about what label comes approaches you and what that label means to your potential reportoir and the current condition of your work. I had blackhole recordings approach me for example, heard one track and were very interested. They'd offer a minimum of 3500 euro in exchange for 2 tracks a month, which takes up a maximum of 30 hours. It's a great deal, although it's a producer ripp off considering the label makes mucho revenue. I mean, if the tracks are a succes and you're less dependend in releasing your material you'll make hella lot more profit. But, it's good because it takes little time to produce from what you can predict a relative ratio. 3500 euro per month for 2 tracks on label means theoreticaly that I can produce an average 10 to 12 tracks a month with ease on other labels aswell if I'd put more effort in it. At a decent succesrate I'd have plenty of income, an estimated 15K a month to throw in a modest figure on a rate like that. But I turned it down because although I could sell them my track and set up a contract, my studio was still in development and never fellt the track was finished which implies to a mediocre product. Now, if I play this track at a rave it's a guaranteed succes, but those people on the dancefloor dont care for finesse, the labels would exploit you because of that. You're a hype and a hype dies along with your name. If I finish the track and dedicate the time to I wanted it to have in a situation I'm certain of gaining the need quality I make 10K per month for 2 tracks on the same label, which is the thought behind turning down the offer. Just give it some time when they're biting the bait already.

Now, I engage into this and take all the time I need because I want to do this till I'm 50 years old, I can't put that into perspective with the current scenario it's not worth considering a job, than it's a hobby and you're not a pro. If I'm a hype, I'll last 3 years if I'm lucky, especialy in hiphop but also in other segments of the industry...but...if I expand and push through various genres and keep a name safe ( meaning no superstar business ) I'll be in the spot I want, get credited for and build a reputation. Doing other music enables me to have the freedom to create hiphop without having the pressure to directly achieve something with it ( revenue ), in hiphop all dedication comes forth from creating progressive and good, if not better, exceptional productions. I think in hiphop people think about the money first way to often, hiphop music as a way of producing money making them copycats...at least far from original because you're not taking the time to develop skill which the case for a lot of crap I hear these days...now that half the world produces hehe.

Now, if I was dedicated to hiphop only I'd give myself no chance in the bizz, but having a shared interest on the whole spectrum show you more option for revenue which puts you in a spot worthy of calling a job. Especialy in the entertainment industry you must raise your expectations, that's your pressure and you need it...you can have the gear, small succes and hope for the big moneymaker or the label that's gonna make you rich but if you dont have to rely on that specificly you'll also have fun at it and the option to keep making music till you get old.


In any case Class, keep with the job, the study because in all fairness it the only certainty and security you have. If the music kicks in to mean serious revenue you can always quit but keep in mind that the money doesn't weigh up to the years still ahead of you.

and definitly keep care of your name, because in this bizz it's everything.

 

[StressWon]

Class,,,look at things like this,,,,

You gonna have a Masters to fall back on technically if your music career gets movin to the "Big Time". Thats not somethin you should take lightly as I know you dont. As far as money is concerned,,,follow your heart. I know this sounds corny but its what i do. If I could make $50,000.00 a year makin music,,,I'de do it. You can make underground music and live pretty damn comfortably. I know what ya mean by workin with cats you dont want to but, as a producer,,,ya aint gonna have too much of a choice. The industry sucks and it will only get worse. All because of money. But do what ya feel is right. Whats missin today is the cats that follow there hearts,,,,and not there wallets! ya dig? You'll be fine man. Ya got the talent and its only been a year,,,,do you. Music is from the soul and when you start to put a price on your soul,,,you already lost.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Stress you are right....but I think a lot of folks see stories like 9th wonder and what the media shows you about the glamor of production...I mean he appeared to pop up all of a sudden and even worse using fruity loops to make it look like anyone can do it easily....but thing is I heard of him like 2 or 3 years back and he already had albums finished or was working on new projects, he had a local buzz in college and working with artists already...that was what even got Young Guru to take notice and then take a chance and tell Jigga because he know about Lil Brother.....I mean this website could prove to be the spark for someone's career.....all I am saying is that I seen the field and its VERY thick with people that got Way hotter material than anyone that ever touched this site that's still on the outside looking in.....I am just saying be careful, everything isn't what it seems, my cousin has a masters from Boston College, got a job working at ABC, lives in Harlem, we all have been trying to talk him out of the fever of getting in the industry because he has been considering it .....but you can also look at it like this....if you are young enuff and can get in do it.......if you fail then at least you can't say you didn't try.....but I would look at all of my time spent in undergrad..at least 4 years and then like 2 of a Masters.....anyone would want an escape but I dunno whether much time and BIIIIIG MONEY spent studying is worth the trade off....just my thoughts......I mean if Class had absolutely nothing to look forward to then maybe but he got all of the credentials ready for his career now.....but he a man he gotta make the decision....

 

[Lo'Nye]

It's crazy that you talk about this class, because 1 hour ago, I was talking about this with a friend of mine who he's about to introduce his stuff to some A&R here in France.
He's an RnB singer, the guy he's so skilled but he was like :" to sell albums I have to be like a thug".
I tried (and I think I've successed) to change his mind about it. I mean actually I feel the same dilemna in a kinda way. How far can I go from my convictions, my principles; my beliefs, actually from who I am for an hypothetic success?
I know it seems to be early to think about it...But I don't wanna sell myself for the music but even if I'm not dreaming about success, I really want my music 2 be heard, not only make beats for myself.
I love music but sometimes I'm not sure that I love the music industry.

One

Lo'Nye

 

[iLLVA1]

well i got a question....how does rocking ice make somebody fake? maybe i read it wrong but i was just wondering.

 

[Formant024]

cuz they mostly lack skills, promoting the american dream which is a lie and because there's more to life than cars, bitches, houses, crystal and ice...something they cant write about.

 

[Lo'Nye]

there's more to life than cars, bitches, houses, crystal and ice...

You're right!!!

One

Lo'Nye

 

[StressWon]

cuz they mostly lack skills, promoting the american dream which is a lie and because there's more to life than cars, bitches, houses, crystal and ice...something they cant write about.

Word. Thats true. I think many cats would be surprised about some of their favorite rappers and their backgrounds. Many of these so called "Thug Rappers" come from the suberbs. There's tons of marketing involved. From ghostwriters to hirin good lookin actors to be turned into "Rap Artists", there's no "real" anymore. Its about the dime when it comes to artists. It's different for producers, but it may not be easier either.

 

[Formant024]

word, they were never good, they were the ones that got picked out of the thousands of other crap...I mean, why would a major take all the trouble for scouting which some much crap at hand. Those "artist" were just lucky to be picked, marketing did the rest...

 

[StressWon]

Thats the whole problem with the industry. There is no artform, just another marketin ploy.

so in my quest to be a big act and producer I will:

write about:
hoes
ice
guns
gangs(bloods or crips,,,whoever is the more popular with the kids)
sellin drugs
killin dudes on the streets cus I'm one bad mofo
my mom for treatin me so bad(as a white emcee,,,I have a "bar" now)
my crew of killers
my bentley, BMW, and/or Escalade

Produce songs:

With a keyboard usin only two keys for every song
sample old 70's soul classics but let the hook sound like the Chipmunks
ocassionally say, "yeah" or "come on" in the backdrops of my emcee's verses


I think I'm gonna be HUGE!!!!

 

[Formant024]

you forgot the cribbs and how much they thank god for it.

 

[RigorMortis]

but i dont see y u are worried about this classic, if you going for the money you shouldnt take ethics with you know do you and with ure kind of beats i dont see you doing some underground shit they seem to be better suited for some urban and rnb tracks and you can make a lot of money with that with people that prolly be thought of as wack by me hehehe.

 

[Shonsteez]

Try buildin yer shit on the Indy Tip then and maybe you will still keep your dignity while being proudly involved in music the way u plan to be?
It cant hurt right?......I mean, being indy obviuosly is not a golden ticket to all that 'big fortune and fame' u see people rollin in on cribs, but you have a prominant chance to still succeed and at least pay the bills and survive.